Long Distance trains and Stations will be cut

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

The only thing i can say is i recived an e mail about the situation and i can't say who it is from but it has been a real good source.

 

[trainboy325]

I completely understand! I thank you for your service to save the long-distance trains. Just trying to give my opinion why there's so much dissention by those who are reluctant to believe that a real danger facing Amtrak services is here and now and time to save trains and stations has grown extremely short!

To those waiting for 180 notices. Did you see one for Tallahassee or Mobile? What about Ocala, FL? Ambus anyone? 180 day notices don't mean much when it comes to protecting RAIL service, they only mean AMTRAK service: bus or otherwise. :angry: <_< :huh:

 

[Railroader]

As a former Amtrak Manager I can attest to the corporate culture that exists at Amtrak. Its screwed up and I made the choice to leave the company ultimately. The management has some good intended people but I found there to be too many people "carrying the flag" for some beloved former employer. Onr the east coast everything was about the "Old Penn", in Chicago it was The "IC Mafia", and in Los Angeles, you would have thought The Santa Fe had never done anything that was even remotely less than perfect. They used to have a saying at Amtrak "Conrail got the best, Amtrak got thr rest." Although I was not that jaded (still am not) it paints a picture of how mish-mashed there plans are/could be. I once got asked in 30th St. Station in Philadelphia if I were a Red Team memberor a Green Team member. I looked at them with amazement, that merger had occured some 24 years previously, ehrn a manager with New Haven bacground said, geeze leave the kid alone he probably wasn't even born yet. The both looked at him and said "well one thing Red and Green can agree on is that none of us liked The New Haven ! Bizarre but true. But I ramble.

There are many things that go into passenger train operations theres

1. Operationally Correct

2. Politically Correct (what the funder wants but may not make sence)

3. Operating conditions

4. Rail traffic etc.

I can tell you this, the Class 1's are at or near capacity and most of them treat Amtrak well, but it is at a cost to their own operations. If the railroads are relieved from operating intercity service, even the ones who like Amtrak won't really want them back. The time is not to argue, panic, or point fingers. The time is to act. Now I don't have all the answers but even if Amtrak were in a reasonably "safe place" life expectensy speaking, we should look into ways to expand. Never accept 2nd best !

 

[~Guest~]

I'm sick as a dog today, so had some time to reflect...

In the last appropriations round, Gunn testified that to cut LD trains while maintaining corridor operations would be significantly more expensive than if the LD trains continued to operate, because of labor and contractual arrangments. He also testified that these higher expenses would continue over at least 3 years, until actual savings could be made. What is different today?

At that same time, the railroads holding common stock in Amtrak were considering legal action since they were in fact common stock holders of the corporation, and not bought out as promised. From what I have read (but this is from memory, no source).. BNSF showed interest in pursuing legal action should LD train cease. This would at least grant an injunction should anything abolishments happen. [Has there been any movement in this area?]

RE: Train riders. NARP hotline reports AMTRAK personnel riding trains in order to survey for compliance with an ADA requirement which is coming into effect. Could this explain some things?

Lastly, things have been rather quiet with the silver service vehicle availbility recently. Do you think it was a conincidence that all these cars were bad ordered in the middle of a trackwork project which causes many cancelations. Something tells me there was more to it.

Just a few thoughts..

 

[x-press]

Lastly, things have been rather quiet with the silver service vehicle availbility recently. Do you think it was a conincidence that all these cars were bad ordered in the middle of a trackwork project which causes many cancelations.

The whole incident was surprisingly quiet. There was never a "service advisory" of any kind put on the Amtrak site. Apparently their mechanical forces made great progress in getting the fleet back together. Didn't do any good for my (cancelled) vacation, but gotta give credit where it's due.

I think it was probably a coincidence . . . what would either party (FRA or Amtrak) gain from it being done when it was. If Amtrak hadn't already cancelled many trains due to the trackwork, they probably would have had to cancel them due to equipment shortages.

JPS

 

[saxman]

I must say I agree with both sides here. I'd like to tell my Reps. something of whats going on, but I'd like a scource or something credible. BNSF has been a very credible source in the past and I have no doubts about this eiher. He is right about the 180 day notice. Once that notice comes out, thats it! The decision has been made!

I'm just unclear on whose making these "decisions." The Board, managers, politicians...who?

BNSF 1088, if you can't tell us much details, how would you suggest we address our reps.? That may help us out.

So if you skipped my last post, take action now! Call your reps and senators. Get family and friends to call theirs. Write to your local paper. Pass out flyers on trains and at stations. I sure will be! I'm also wondering if NARP can be contacted directly about this. They have a contact phone I believe.

If this is true, we must do our jobs. I'm not going to let anyone take away my trains!

I'll get off my soap box now

Chris

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

What i would tell my Reps is don't let the Long Distance trains be taken off due to the idea that the Long Distance trains have to make a profit to stay on due to the Reform Amtrak has to go thru.

If you wan't to know who is behind all this it is the Bush Admin there telling the Amtrak Board what to cut and how to do it.

 

[Guest_Jim]

I agree that National Association of Railroad Passengers is working "24/7" to support and promote passenger rail. I am proud to be a member since 1995. All of us need to: (1) join NARP; (2) regularly contact our senators, congressmen, and state governors in support of passenger rail; and (3) inform others of the need to support passenger rail. This would be the most effective, long-term strategy of supporting passenger rail, in particular, Amtrak.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

What i would tell my Reps is don't let the Long Distance trains be taken off due to the idea that the Long Distance trains have to make a profit to stay on due to the Reform Amtrak has to go thru.
If you wan't to know who is behind all this it is the Bush Admin there telling the Amtrak Board what to cut and how to do it.

Here is the criteria used to unstaff the stations the list of the 26 stations has now been upgraded to ALL STATIONS ON THE AMTRAK SYSTEM that meet this criteria.

Here is the list of those currently staffed stations whose financial

performance is such that we need to consider un-staffing.

The criteria used: revenue of less that 450K annually generated by the agent

at the station - the highlighted column. Many on the list are 5 day a week

stations.

We have included support information for you to evaluate- specifically labor

information (the labor dollars are from the FY06 Transportation budget as is

the headcount); revenue information-this information is from BRIO/FIS/Data

Warehouse; Quik Trak information; and then the ratios developed by using

cost/revenue information. There is also a sheet which indicates the

other services the station provides -such as a remit point for conductors.

We have removed stations from the list where there is no alternative for

remittances, but left on those where there MAY be alternatives.

Our request: Please review the list, data and ratios. As you are ready we

will set up conference calls to discuss.

This information has been given to Government Affairs, Labor Relations, and

Marketing for their comments and review.

 

[x-press]

Here is the criteria used to unstaff the stations the list of the 26 stations has now been upgraded to ALL STATIONS ON THE AMTRAK SYSTEM.

There may or may not be 26 stations on the system that could get by unstaffed; with the rising number of internet reservations, I could see fewer agents being needed in the field. The figure of "$450000" is suspect. One employee running an Amshack isn't covered by almost half a million dollars?! I would have to learn more before commenting.

The statement of "all Amtrak stations" is absurd. They gonna unstaff Penn Station, New York? Come on now.

JPS

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

Here is the criteria used to unstaff the stations the list of the 26 stations has now been upgraded to ALL STATIONS ON THE AMTRAK SYSTEM.

There may or may not be 26 stations on the system that could get by unstaffed; with the rising number of internet reservations, I could see fewer agents being needed in the field. The figure of "$450000" is suspect. One employee running an Amshack isn't covered by almost half a million dollars?! I would have to learn more before commenting.

The statement of "all Amtrak stations" is absurd. They gonna unstaff Penn Station, New York? Come on now.

JPS

All Amtrak Stations that meet this criteria could be unstaffed.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

Here is the thing the Bush Admin want's Amtrak gone any way that they can reduce ridership and revenue will work in there favor to dismantle Amtrak.

You cut agents out ridership drops at the station plus on the train or trains that use that line.

You have to look at the big picture Bush want's Amtrak gone and will do anything that he can do to dismantle it.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Eaxctly right. And whereas most "lame duck" presidents might moderate their positions on thngs, this one apparently just wants to make sure he finishes what he wanted to do before he leaves, by whatever means it takes, just like we're in Iraq 'cause he wanted to finish what his daddy started, and was willing to do or say whatever it took to get there.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

I also want to make a note about the 180 day notice.

That does not mean that Amtrak has to run the train with sleepers or a lounge they can run just 1 coach after they give the 180 day notice.

 

[Guest_Amtrak_flyer]

What is Bush thinking!!! As WPK said, as lame duck as Bush is hes getting more cavilier by the day. I cant belive this thing with the ports and his statements today, he will veto efforts by both parties to stop the sale of major ports to foreign ownership.

We have to fight him on Amtrak, he cant win. Call, write and more important now more then ever have your friends and family call too.

Hopefully with all these other bizzare decisons Bush is making, he will loose whatever credibility he has left with Congress and unfortuntely as it is the American public. Republican or Democrat Bush needs to be stopped.

 

[Railroader]

You Are Correct ! It doesn't matter if you are a Democrat or a Republican, we are all Americans !

The Port story strikes me as strange too.....This has been in the news for a year or more...Hmmmm <_<

We can't forget that while not the top priority, Amtrak employes over 20,000 employees, their demise would hurt RRTA. Which I selfishly support, being a "railroader".

 

[saxman]

This post has moved way down, but I've loosing sleep on this scary issue!

I just wanted some new updates on this topic, if there are any, like from you railroaders.

Thanks

Chris

 

[JAChooChoo]

As of right now people are riding the Long distance Amtrak trains to see which ones will be cut off,They are also going around to Amtrak stations to see which ones they can unstaff.
People now is the time not to argue but start making your calls to the proper people in congress Amtrak is on it's last leg as of right now.

The Long Distance trains will come off 1 by 1 also Stations will be unstaffed 1 by 1.

This is nothing new, the process was going on years before Amtrak was created. In 1970, Congress went thru the exercise of determining the essential trains and stations to be the Amtrak system. 2/3 of all LD trains disappeared on May 1, 1971.

And as other posters have noted, except for emergency situations (Katrina), no route can be abandoned without a 180 day notice.

 

[Guest_Amtrak_flyer]

Chris and everyone else, keep writing and calling your senators and reps, have your friends call too. Things will be different after the elections in November.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

I have recived word that on June 30th 2006 the decison has to be made on what LD trains to cut.

 

[trainboy325]

Thanks BNSF 1088 for the update. However, this date has been established by Congress in the FY2006 appropriations makes July 1 the date the DOT Inspector General has total jurisdiction over LD operations and routes, not the Amtrak Board and its management corps. The quiet nature of the "rumor mill" at Amtrak makes this date seem more solid than ever. We'll see. :unsure:

 

[PRR 60]

...However, this date has been established by Congress in the FY2006 appropriations makes July 1 the date the DOT Inspector General has total jurisdiction over LD operations and routes, not the Amtrak Board and its management corps.

That is not accurate. The Amtrak appropriation states that the DOT IG is to report to Congress on July 1 on his (or her) assessment of Amtrak's enacted cost savings and efficiencies. Nothing in the law authorizes the the DOT IG to take managerial control of Amtrak. Here is the text of the portion of the Act that pertains to the the DOT IG and Amtrak:

Provided further, That the Corporation is directed to achieve savings through operating efficiencies including, but not limited to, modifications to food and beverage service and first class service: Provided further, That the Inspector General of the Department of Transportation shall report to the House and Senate Committees on Appropriations beginning on January 3, 2006 and quarterly thereafter with estimates of the savings accrued as a result of all operational reforms instituted by the National Railroad Passenger Corporation: Provided further, That if the Inspector General cannot certify that the Corporation has achieved operational savings by July 1, 2006, none of the funds in this Act may be used after July 1, 2006, to subsidize the net losses of food and beverage service and sleeper car service on any Amtrak route:

Note that the need is for the IG to "certify savings". Not savings of X dollars, but just savings. This means that Amtrak has to show a meaningful change, but is not tied to a dollar figure. The food service does not have to break even. Sleepers do not have to break even. But there has to be some manner of efficiencies demonstrated to the satisfaction of the IG. It is a judgement call. If not, the subsidy is cut, but the DOT IG certainly does not move in and take over Amtrak.

 

[trainboy325]

I know that's the law, but Amtrak has decided to pass along the future of the long distance trains and their services to the IG's office, not themselves. It's already been made clear as local management keeps saying "July 1, July1 is shutdown." That's the whole point of the topic tread, Amtrak has a plan for shutdown, and it's scheduled to begin on July 1 as the date the Board will let the Bush Administration take direct control of the company. Those are the facts, it's the way this is playing out in Washington. It's sad, but it's the truth.

The whole point of diner-lite, simplified dining service, what ever you want to call it is designed to show "operationally savings," but unfortunately this hasn't happened yet. Diner-lite has caused major drops in coach revenue and sleepers are taking small hits on routes that are in full swing with diner-lite. The CONO for example is loosing more money now than before the change (adjusting for ridership trends due to Katrina). We have 2 less people in the diner now and sell maybe 15 or 20 coach meals per trip versus the 55 to 60 we had prior to diner-lite. Same with the Texas Eagle. Ridership is up on the Eagle, but meals served in the diner, coach and sleeper, are down 30% since diner-lite. Amtrak isn't saving anything as revenue is down much more than the "savings" of reducing staff and food stock costs. As you said, it's a judgement call by the IG. And we know the "judgement" the Bush Administration has for Amtrak as a whole!

Again, never take "the law" regarding Amtrak too much to heart. Amtrak has done so many things against the law regarding contracts, human resources, safety and welfare, etc. and has never really having to take responsibility for their actions. That's the nature of the beast that is Amtrak.

 

[PRR 60]

Again, never take "the law" regarding Amtrak too much to heart. Amtrak has done so many things against the law regarding contracts, human resources, safety and welfare, etc. and has never really having to take responsibility for their actions. That's the nature of the beast that is Amtrak.

If that were actually the case, that alone would be the best ever reason to shut down Amtrak. If you have actual proof of illegal actions or finacial wrongdoing by Amtrak, the US Department of Justice has some substantial whistle-blower funds for you.

 

[trainboy325]

Don't know enough to make it worth the time or face being blackballed by the company (although at this point it's doubtful I'll return to Amtrak's employment after my resignation next week for permanent federal employment). Secondly, the things I personally know which are shady at best seem to be common knowledge throughout the railroad industry and those in the FRA.

I deep down think that's the reason why the Bush Administration is after Amtrak. Not "train subsidies" per se, but the crap that is Amtrak and it's masses of labor employees (which are overwhelmingly Democrats) doing more to hurt passenger rail's bottom line than improve it with the millions of dollars given to Amtrak annually. David Gunn was after the corruption; he made the whole company open and honest, put reports that were clean and truthful open to the public, etc. Sometimes the best CEOs loose their jobs because they try too hard to change a company's culture and it comes to bit them in the butt. I just don't have too much faith in Amtrak doing the right thing necessary to appease the IG versus them doing way too many illegal things. That's what I mean by Amtrak following "the law."

I'll be the first to admit that the whole concept of shutdown is very, very hard to believe. I know, I doubt my own beliefs of the pending shutdown. Nearly 35 years of "pending shutdown" talk at Amtrak is proof that this year should be no different. However, I have observed nearly for a year now of Amtrak managers doing way more than normal and actively "working" to justify their jobs to people up the food chain. Too many internal changes that go against the typical Amtrak way of thinking is taking form and chatter among the railroad observers in the industry are up in arms over specific details for this year's policy. Like everyone is saying right now, June 30 seems to be the magic date for something to happen, and as the legislation says, if Amtrak has to achieve operational savings by July 1 for the sake of "reform" so the managers can get the last quarter appropration dollars to pay their own salaries, believe me that trains and services will be first to go!