"Lock The Door When You Go Out!"

[frugalist]

A lot of the comments so far are a variation of "no lock is 100% secure - a determined thief will get into your room." Agreed. But isn't this a little like thinking "since a determined thief can pick the lock on my home's front door, I'm not going to bother locking it when I go out." One thing a lock does is deter the casual, snatch & grab guy from getting a quick score. This is as true on a train as it is at home. Granted, you have a lot more to lose if a thief breaks into your home. But, it would still make for a bad day if someone who knew I wasn't in my room (because he saw me enter the dining room and sit down to eat) walked back to my car and grabbed something even though it was casually hidden under a pillow or coat on a seat. And a "determined thief" standing in the hall working on the lock, even if for just a few seconds, will draw a bit more attention that a guy ducking behind the drawn curtain.

I've read a lot of personal anecdotes and conjecture about the lack of a problem. But do you think if there was an alleged theft onboard, the conductor would get on the PA and announce it and ask the thief to please return the stolen goods? I think it would be kept as quiet as possible. When you're on a cruise, you don't hear of thefts, assaults or other crimes committed on board. The cruise company wants to keep those incidents as quiet as possible. To do otherwise would burst the illusion of being on a safe getaway, far from the problems of the big, bad city. I'm sure Amtrak would want to keep news of a possible crime onboard as quiet as possible too. So I'd like to throw out the possibility that maybe -- just maybe -- thefts might possibly be a tad more frequent than a lot of us on here think.

As far as the question of trains in the past having locks on their sleeper doors: while it would be interesting to know the answer, I don't think it would be relevant in today's world. Things are a lot different than they were back in the day. Instead of looking back, we should be looking ahead. As was mentioned, what is being done in other areas of the world? Maybe we should find out if other train systems have a better security system in place for their sleepers, and if so, how is that system implemented.

And if the attitude of "it's never been done up till now, so why should we start doing it?" was held by everyone, think of how slow any kind of progress would be. Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't necessarily mean it shouldn't be done now. It's a question of mechanical and technical feasibility and economic priority.

It sure isn't easy holding a minority opinion around this place!

 

[LA Resident]

A lot of the comments so far are a variation of "no lock is 100% secure - a determined thief will get into your room." Agreed. But isn't this a little like thinking "since a determined thief can pick the lock on my home's front door, I'm not going to bother locking it when I go out." One thing a lock does is deter the casual, snatch & grab guy from getting a quick score. This is as true on a train as it is at home. Granted, you have a lot more to lose if a thief breaks into your home. But, it would still make for a bad day if someone who knew I wasn't in my room (because he saw me enter the dining room and sit down to eat) walked back to my car and grabbed something even though it was casually hidden under a pillow or coat on a seat. And a "determined thief" standing in the hall working on the lock, even if for just a few seconds, will draw a bit more attention that a guy ducking behind the drawn curtain.

I've read a lot of personal anecdotes and conjecture about the lack of a problem. But do you think if there was an alleged theft onboard, the conductor would get on the PA and announce it and ask the thief to please return the stolen goods? I think it would be kept as quiet as possible. When you're on a cruise, you don't hear of thefts, assaults or other crimes committed on board. The cruise company wants to keep those incidents as quiet as possible. To do otherwise would burst the illusion of being on a safe getaway, far from the problems of the big, bad city. I'm sure Amtrak would want to keep news of a possible crime onboard as quiet as possible too. So I'd like to throw out the possibility that maybe -- just maybe -- thefts might possibly be a tad more frequent than a lot of us on here think.

As far as the question of trains in the past having locks on their sleeper doors: while it would be interesting to know the answer, I don't think it would be relevant in today's world. Things are a lot different than they were back in the day. Instead of looking back, we should be looking ahead. As was mentioned, what is being done in other areas of the world? Maybe we should find out if other train systems have a better security system in place for their sleepers, and if so, how is that system implemented.

And if the attitude of "it's never been done up till now, so why should we start doing it?" was held by everyone, think of how slow any kind of progress would be. Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't necessarily mean it shouldn't be done now. It's a question of mechanical and technical feasibility and economic priority.

It sure isn't easy holding a minority opinion around this place!

No, pre-Amtrak sleepers did not have locks, but the doors did close completely when you left without sometimes sliding back open.

In more than 60 rides on sleepers in the US, the only time I ever had anything taken was a book, of all things, on the Super Chief from a roomette in 1971 when I was a student. I notified the conductor, and about an hour later he turned up with it! A crew member had pilfered it!

On sleepers I've ridden in Germany (City Nite Trains) and the Czech Republic, the doors do lock and your key is a magnetic swipe card.

Most times on Amtrak, I follow the good advice posted here several times (the recent I think in a discussion duct tape) and tape the curtain all the way across when I go out. That way, it doesn't matter if the door slides open or not, the curtain stays affixed with the tape.

 

[alanh]

There's supposed to be a detent that keeps the door closed, but obviously on some it's worn out or out of adjustment, so the acceleration/deceleration of the train can make the door slide open. It appears the original design (at least on the Superliners) did have a latch that could be opened from the outside; they were replaced by the time I started riding so I don't have experience with it, or know why it was replaced.

The options are either a traditional key lock, or a hotel-style swipe card. Keys have the advantage of being simple and requiring no power, but managing the keys is a pain. People will lose or walk off with them, and they can be copied.

Swipe cards are easier to manage, but they have to have the machine to record the cards and the mechanisms have to be rugged enough for train conditions (vibration, bouncing, etc.). Due to the narrow halls, the readers can't stick out or they'll get whacked by people walking by.

Hotel-style ones have lithium batteries so they don't require external power, but do have to have the batteries replaced.

FWIW, the sleeper I took from Moscow to St. Petersburg only locked from inside. Me and my companion were also paired with two strangers in the 4-bunk room. We kept valuables either with us or in the storage bin under the lower bunk while we were sleeping (can't be opened without lifting the bunk).

 

[AlanB]

Can they at least design doors that will not slide open while we're out?

Nothing I've seen or heard or read explains this part and it's one of the more perplexing design flaws I've ever come across.

Yes, they can. In fact the original locking mechanisms on the Viewliner cars did just that. The door latched closed when you slid it closed. To lock it one then turned a small knob. But without regard to whether or not you locked the door, it would remain closed until you pressed on the lever to release the catch.

The demise of that lock in favor of the type now found and also found on the Superliners was two fold. One, far too many passengers couldn't seem to figure out how to actually work the catch. The lever pivoted at the bottom, so you needed to push near the top to actually make it move. Not to brag, but I personally probably rescued at least 4 or 5 people who were frantically and in some cases with great panic, trying to get out of their rooms. And I'm quite certain that the attendants resuced many people themselves.

The second issue is the one that always seem to crop up with Amtrak, money. Those lock were expensive to fix and replace when they broke. So back during the glidepath years where Amtrak didn't spend money on maintenance, those locks were replaced with the far cheaper type found on the trains now.

 

[zephyr17]

Maybe we need an answer to this question. Pre-Amtrak did any of the US passenger train sleeping cars have door locks?

No

 

[Devil's Advocate]

On sleepers I've ridden in Germany (City Nite Trains) and the Czech Republic, the doors do lock and your key is a magnetic swipe card.

So even the Czech Republic is eclipsing our trains? Interesting. Can you comment on how ticket prices compare to what we pay on Amtrak?

FWIW, the sleeper I took from Moscow to St. Petersburg only locked from inside. Me and my companion were also paired with two strangers in the 4-bunk room.

Yeah, I don't think public multi-ticket bunks are the issue here.

I personally probably rescued at least 4 or 5 people who were frantically and in some cases with great panic, trying to get out of their rooms. And I'm quite certain that the attendants resuced many people themselves.

I'm not sure what to say to this. Perhaps the SCA didn't bother explaining the mechanism clearly. Or maybe these people simply weren't sharp enough to understand what they were told. In any case I don't think we should waste time trying to design our trains to be idiot proof. If the ADA room needs to remain unlocked so be it, but I believe the rest of the rooms would benefit from a higher standard than we currently accept. Doors that shut properly from outside would be a great start. Doors that can be locked from the outside would be a great feature for new car deliveries. In order to address the issue of passengers who are unable to understand or use the locking mechanism Amtrak could make it an option to be enabled or disabled. Those who don't want it or can't understand it can leave their doors unlocked and the rest of us can receive the (real or false) peace of mind we get from knowing someone needs more than a spare second and a flick of an empty hand to access our compartment.

 

[TVRM610]

Hotel-style ones have lithium batteries so they don't require external power, but do have to have the batteries replaced.

Now see this is an actual productive piece of information. Power is no longer an issue then. That makes total sense.. All the hotels I've stayed in have never had the locks plugged into an outlet!

So in all reality Amtrak could probably just call the company that makes these for the European trains and order a bunch and use them. Now will they? I'm certain not, and I'm fine with that. ha.

Does VIA use this on any of the trains?

 

[MrFSS]

Most times on Amtrak, I follow the good advice posted here several times (the recent I think in a discussion duct tape) and tape the curtain all the way across when I go out. That way, it doesn't matter if the door slides open or not, the curtain stays affixed with the tape.

And, as I have mentioned several times in threads past, I place a small strip of tape on the door frame to the door itself, up at the top somewhere. It keeps the door from sliding open when it shouldn't.

 

[J-1 3235]

FWIW, last fall when I traveled on VIA's Ocean to Halifax, the Renaissance sleeper had door locks. I believe the key was the size of a credit card, but had holes in a certain pattern, not a magnetic strip. The attendant handed me the keys (2) and retrieved them at the end of the journey.

The door was hinged, not a slider.

Mike

 

[FriskyFL]

This sounds like a solution in search of a problem.

 

[the_traveler]

FWIW, last fall when I traveled on VIA's Ocean to Halifax, the Renaissance sleeper had door locks. I believe the key was the size of a credit card, but had holes in a certain pattern, not a magnetic strip. The attendant handed me the keys (2) and retrieved them at the end of the journey.

The door was hinged, not a slider.

There you go!

Now all Amtrak had to do is come up with $xxx,xxx,xxx so they can retrofit all the door from sliders to hinged doors on ALL the sleepers. Then all Amtrak has to come up with the $xxx,xxx,xxx so they can install locks on EVERY door!

I still would rather see Amtrak use that same $x,xxx,xxx,xxx to buy new cars so that they can expand the network!

 

[frugalist]

FWIW, last fall when I traveled on VIA's Ocean to Halifax, the Renaissance sleeper had door locks. I believe the key was the size of a credit card, but had holes in a certain pattern, not a magnetic strip. The attendant handed me the keys (2) and retrieved them at the end of the journey.

The door was hinged, not a slider.

Mike

Based on your post, I did some research on the VIA Rail Canada website. While it's encouraging to see that the Renaissance cars on The Ocean have door locks that can be locked from the outside, I couldn't find these cars available on any other train in the VIA Rail Canada fleet. Are these cars just being introduced into the fleet?

I did a test booking for a Cabin for 2 to see how their fares compared with Amtrak's for a similar trip. Montreal to Halifax on The Ocean is about 23 hours. The description of the room can be found here http://www.viarail.ca/en/resources/cabin-two-montreal-halifax. For August 25 the fare for 2 passengers in a Cabin for 2 is Can$991.04 with meals or Can$898.48 without meals. On Amtrak, the Silver Meteor from Miami to Washington, DC is also about 23 hours. For August 25 the fare for 2 passengers in a Roomette is US$669.00 and in a Bedroom is US$1,253.00. Comparing the room details, the Renaissance Car Cabin for 2 is about the same dimensions as the Amtrak Roomette.

For a single traveler, the cost comparison becomes a lot closer. On The Ocean on August 25, a Cabin for 2 is Can$570.02 with meals or Can$516.63 without meals. On Amtrak's Silver Meteor between Miami and Washington, DC on August 25, a roomette for 1 passenger is US$547.00 and a bedroom is US$1,131.00.

 

[AlanB]

I personally probably rescued at least 4 or 5 people who were frantically and in some cases with great panic, trying to get out of their rooms. And I'm quite certain that the attendants resuced many people themselves.

I'm not sure what to say to this. Perhaps the SCA didn't bother explaining the mechanism clearly. Or maybe these people simply weren't sharp enough to understand what they were told. In any case I don't think we should waste time trying to design our trains to be idiot proof. If the ADA room needs to remain unlocked so be it, but I believe the rest of the rooms would benefit from a higher standard than we currently accept. Doors that shut properly from outside would be a great start. Doors that can be locked from the outside would be a great feature for new car deliveries. In order to address the issue of passengers who are unable to understand or use the locking mechanism Amtrak could make it an option to be enabled or disabled. Those who don't want it or can't understand it can leave their doors unlocked and the rest of us can receive the (real or false) peace of mind we get from knowing someone needs more than a spare second and a flick of an empty hand to access our compartment.

Just to be clear here, these door couldn't really be locked from outside, at least not without a small screwdriver and the knowledge of what to do.

The issue that these people were having was understanding how the catch system that would hold the door closed worked.

And alas, we do have to design our trains to be idiot proof. Having frantic passengers that feel that they are trapped in the room doesn't help repeat business. Having passengers that panic so badly that they start taking out windows or breaking windows would be even worse.

And as Whooz can tell you, he watched an idiot in action once on a train. The girl said to her friends, "ooh, let me pull down the window shade." And then she proceeded to yank on the red, clearly marked, emergency release handle for the window.

 

[AlanB]

Based on your post, I did some research on the VIA Rail Canada website. While it's encouraging to see that the Renaissance cars on The Ocean have door locks that can be locked from the outside, I couldn't find these cars available on any other train in the VIA Rail Canada fleet. Are these cars just being introduced into the fleet?

Those cars are only available on the runs in the east. They were originally built for trains in Europe and went unused, so VIA picked them up for a decent price. But there are not enough to equip all of their trains.

 

[DKpartyguy]

I would like it if the doors to the sleepers could be locked from the outside. It would just add an extra sense of security as far as leaving personal items in the roomette, bedrooms,etc. I don't really travel with any expensive electronics or a laptop, so all I do is make sure I keep my wallet and cell phone with me at all times.

But I have seen people in the sleeper cars leave all sorts of things right out in the open.

On one recent trip, I walked past a roomette, and a woman had left her pocketbook on the seat, with credit cards and cash clearly visible!!! What was she thinking??? Anyone could have easily stolen it.

Riders from coach can easily walk into the sleeper cars, especially on trains where the SCA is missing or not around. One should just use common sense, and if you leave somethign of value in the room, keep it well out of sight.

So, it would be nice if perhaps on new trains the door would lock from the outside.

David

 

[the_traveler]

Riders from coach can easily walk into the sleeper cars, especially on trains where the SCA is missing or not around. One should just use common sense, and if you leave somethign of value in the room, keep it well out of sight.

Not without (at least on most trains) walking thru the Dining Car first! But I do agree to use common sense (which is not all that common

) and to keep valuables out of plain sight!

 

[NS VIA FAN]

I’ve travelled many years in sleeping cars on both Amtrak and VIA and have never had a problem with theft of any item......even travelling in the old style open-section accommodations that VIA still sells. But I can appreciate those who are apprehensive about leaving things unattended.

If Amtrak were to install locks, a system similar to what Marine Atlantic uses for the Cabin doors on their ferries between Nova Scotia & Newfoundland might work. Small and compact.

When checking in, you get a Boarding Card/Key Card......a credit card size piece of cardboard stock with a magnetic strip on the back all in a 2 1/2” x 4 1/2” ticket folder......fits easily in your pocket or wallet. Just swipe it through the lock mechanism on the door to open.......They’re about the same size as the tickets that Transits Systems use in turnstiles.

At the end of the trip, there’s nothing to return. The magnetic code on the strip is now void.....just throw it away or keep it as your ticket receipt.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

And alas, we do have to design our trains to be idiot proof.

This is where we'll simply have to agree to disagree. Adult idiots should be allowed to harm and kill themselves instead of being constantly protected from their own stupidity. Which of course brings us to legal complications. I know many folks think that any moron can sue any large company or corporate entity and win a huge settlement. But in my experience many of the really big judgments we read about idiots winning against businesses are severely reduced or thrown out on appeal or are simply erroneously reported to begin with. The threat of a moron winning a judgement for their own stupidity is highly overblown after decades worth of anti-consumer tort reform. Amtrak has been penalized severely in the past, but from my perspective it seems to be their own boneheaded decisions that cause most of their problems. If they were just a little more careful they'd probably have fewer and smaller legal judgments without having to babysit their passengers.

One idea I thought of on my trip last week was using the hotel room safe system. It's open and unlocked until you choose a passcode and lock it. I believe it runs on a battery that doesn't need replacing often. There are moving parts in the hotel safes I've used but a similar locking function could be provided by electric magnets fed by HEP. Under normal conditions the doors are essentially locked without additional moving parts but if there is a derailment or crash that interrupts HEP the doors would become unlocked. Naturally it wouldn't be fortified military style and a determined attack could still gain access but for most cases it would be secure and safe enough to prevent casual entries. Even successful entries could be linked to a notification panel in the SCA's room. These are just some brainstorming ideas so there are likely to be holes in the concept that will need to be addressed. The main issue to me is that there are so many potential options that it seems odd Amtrak has decided to employ absolutely none of them.

 

[Jeremy]

<snip>

Except for #27/28 when the #807/808 coach is carried between CHI and MSP, coach passengers are not allowed in sleeping cars. Most trains have the Dining Car placed between the sleepers and coach. And I HAVE been questioned by the Dining Car staff AND the SCA when I've entered the sleepers and they did not recognize me!

I'll be in the Portland sleeper on that train in 3 weeks; will let you know how it goes. We will be 'at risk' from those terrible MSP coach people (criminals one and all, I once lived there ) for a maximum of 9 hours. I'm sure it will work out OK.

Jeremy

 

[AlanB]

And alas, we do have to design our trains to be idiot proof.

This is where we'll simply have to agree to disagree. Adult idiots should be allowed to harm and kill themselves instead of being constantly protected from their own stupidity.

So allowing people to break down doors and kick out windows in their panic doesn't strike you as a problem? Even a financial one, since now Amtrak has to fix those things, with our money.

Which of course brings us to legal complications. I know many folks think that any moron can sue any large company or corporate entity and win a huge settlement. But in my experience many of the really big judgments we read about idiots winning against businesses are severely reduced or thrown out on appeal or are simply erroneously reported to begin with. The threat of a moron winning a judgement for their own stupidity is highly overblown after decades worth of anti-consumer tort reform. Amtrak has been penalized severely in the past, but from my perspective it seems to be their own boneheaded decisions that cause most of their problems. If they were just a little more careful they'd probably have fewer and smaller legal judgments without having to babysit their passengers.

Even if Amtrak were more careful about things, it would still cost money. It costs money just to defend yourself. In fact, sometimes that why things are settled, because that's cheaper!

And losing a lawsuit because you didn't have a sign that said "moron, you might get electrocuted if you stand on top of a railcar in this yard with overhead wires" even though the idiots walked by multiple signs that said "NO TRESSPASSING" hardly strikes me as a failure on Amtrak's part.

People love to sue about anything in this country.

Heck, 20 years ago Disney employeed 50 people whose sole job was to follow known accident fakers around their parks. And back then, there was only the Magic Kindom and Epcot, and far less sueing going on in this country. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that they've more than doubled that special police force.

One idea I thought of on my trip last week was using the hotel room safe system. It's open and unlocked until you choose a passcode and lock it. I believe it runs on a battery that doesn't need replacing often. There are moving parts in the hotel safes I've used but a similar locking function could be provided by electric magnets fed by HEP. Under normal conditions the doors are essentially locked without additional moving parts but if there is a derailment or crash that interrupts HEP the doors would become unlocked. Naturally it wouldn't be fortified military style and a determined attack could still gain access but for most cases it would be secure and safe enough to prevent casual entries. Even successful entries could be linked to a notification panel in the SCA's room. These are just some brainstorming ideas so there are likely to be holes in the concept that will need to be addressed. The main issue to me is that there are so many potential options that it seems odd Amtrak has decided to employ absolutely none of them.

Great, more alarms going off in the middle of the night as the poor SCA is trying to get their contract guaranteed 4 hours of sleep.

And frankly, I'd much rather that Amtrak spend that money on better cleaning of the cars, more staff on the train, or even towards fixing the vacuum problems on the Superliners; long before worrying about whether or not my room locks. Heck, I couldn't even lock my room on VIA's premier service the Canadian! Clearly not a priority.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

So allowing people to break down doors and kick out windows in their panic doesn't strike you as a problem? Even a financial one, since now Amtrak has to fix those things, with our money.

This seems like a simple fix to me. As I've already explained, Amtrak could simply make the activation of the locking mechanism optional. The idiots probably wouldn't miss the fact they can't lock their doors and the preventive self-reliant types get their extra piece of mind.

Even if Amtrak were more careful about things, it would still cost money. It costs money just to defend yourself. In fact, sometimes that why things are settled, because that's cheaper!

Amtrak is already spending money defending themselves today and they will continue to do so in the future. I fail to see how being a bit more careful about their legal strategies would hurt them at this point.

And losing a lawsuit because you didn't have a sign that said "moron, you might get electrocuted if you stand on top of a railcar in this yard with overhead wires" even though the idiots walked by multiple signs that said "NO TRESSPASSING" hardly strikes me as a failure on Amtrak's part. People love to sue about anything in this country.

You seem to be on autopilot here. You know what Americans like to do even more than sue? Endlessly ***** about theoretical consumer lawsuits that would rarely be successful in real life. The main reason we have so many idiot-level signs is not because any idiot can sue and win. It's because it's easier to just slap a warning on something than to rethink a design or process. Lack of innovation and motivation are the primary culprits here. For instance, other more progressive countries make their driving tests harder and also work to remove or prevent grade crossings which easily avoid future collisions. Meanwhile America lets just about every idiot and feeble geezer on the road and leaves our original grade crossing intact while adding numerous government-funded signs, bells, lights and gates that our citizens simply ignore. Then we act shocked and angry when our transportation systems continue to suffer from high numbers of completely preventable collisions. And frankly, it's getting old.

Heck, 20 years ago Disney employeed 50 people whose sole job was to follow known accident fakers around their parks. And back then, there was only the Magic Kindom and Epcot, and far less sueing going on in this country. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that they've more than doubled that special police force.

It's probably handled more by cameras than live agents these days. A quick scan of legal actions involving Disney parks implies they have won or successfully sought to dismiss most of the serious cases brought against them. On those occasions where they lost it seems quite possible they were at least partially negligent and I'm thankful any guests who suffered as a result of reasonably preventable harm were able to seek some form of compensation.

Great, more alarms going off in the middle of the night as the poor SCA is trying to get their contract guaranteed 4 hours of sleep.

First you worry about passengers becoming trapped through their own idiocy and then you worry about the SCA's being alerted to doors being forced open. It's becoming pretty clear that no answer is good enough for you. Sheesh.

And frankly, I'd much rather that Amtrak spend that money on better cleaning of the cars, more staff on the train, or even towards fixing the vacuum problems on the Superliners; long before worrying about whether or not my room locks.

Alan, I don't see any pressing reason to start adding locks to Amtrak's current rolling stock. Just like I don't see any pressing reason not to add them to orders for new car deliveries. It's certainly not my highest priority for Amtrak but since it is the topic at hand I didn't think it was necessary to explain that.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

A simple solution to keep doors from sliding open when no one is in the room is magnets built into the door and a metal plate for the magnet to stick to to keep the door shut.

 

[AlanB]

So allowing people to break down doors and kick out windows in their panic doesn't strike you as a problem? Even a financial one, since now Amtrak has to fix those things, with our money.

This seems like a simple fix to me. As I've already explained, Amtrak could simply make the activation of the locking mechanism optional. The idiots probably wouldn't miss the fact they can't lock their doors and the preventive self-reliant types get their extra piece of mind.

And what makes you think that the "idiots" won't want to lock the door? Or do you plan to let the attendant decide in the first 30 seconds of meeting the new occupants whether or not to turn on the locks? And then once they realize that others can lock their doors and they can't, that'll open up a whole new can of worms.

And losing a lawsuit because you didn't have a sign that said "moron, you might get electrocuted if you stand on top of a railcar in this yard with overhead wires" even though the idiots walked by multiple signs that said "NO TRESSPASSING" hardly strikes me as a failure on Amtrak's part. People love to sue about anything in this country.

You seem to be on autopilot here. You know what Americans like to do even more than sue? Endlessly ***** about theoretical consumer lawsuits that would rarely be successful in real life. The main reason we have so many idiot-level signs is not because any idiot can sue and win. It's because it's easier to just slap a warning on something than to rethink a design or process. Lack of innovation and motivation are the primary culprits here. For instance, other more progressive countries make their driving tests harder and also work to remove or prevent grade crossings which easily avoid future collisions. Meanwhile America lets just about every idiot and feeble geezer on the road and leaves our original grade crossing intact while adding numerous government-funded signs, bells, lights and gates that our citizens simply ignore. Then we act shocked and angry when our transportation systems continue to suffer from high numbers of completely preventable collisions. And frankly, it's getting old.

The example that I provided isn't a theoretical lawsuit; it's real! The kids climbed over a fence into an active rail yard, ignored signs that said NO TRESSPASSING, and then proceeded to climb on top of a box car, whereupon one of them got fried by coming into contact with the catenary. What better engineering do you propose to solve that problem?

And that idiot won money because even though he was in violation of multiple laws and had deliberately ignored warnign signs and a fence, there was no sign that warned him that he might get electrocuted for being an idiot. That was the pivotal point in the entire case. The jury didn't seem to care that he was tresspassing. They didn't care that he climbed over a fence that was clearly designed to keep him out. This kid would have ignored any sign warning him that he might get electrocuted, after all he didn't care about all the other warnings. Yet because there was no sign, he won money.

That said, I do agree that the crossing issue makes no sense. Short of being able to prove that the gates had failed to activate, families shouldn't even be able to set foot in court when the warning signs have clearly been ignored.

 

[AlanB]

Heck, 20 years ago Disney employeed 50 people whose sole job was to follow known accident fakers around their parks. And back then, there was only the Magic Kindom and Epcot, and far less sueing going on in this country. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that they've more than doubled that special police force.

It's probably handled more by cameras than live agents these days. A quick scan of legal actions involving Disney parks implies they have won or successfully sought to dismiss most of the serious cases brought against them. On those occasions where they lost it seems quite possible they were at least partially negligent and I'm thankful any guests who suffered as a result of reasonably preventable harm were able to seek some form of compensation.

Yes, there are cameras too, but they still employee people as the cameras can't be everywhere and see every angle.

Great, more alarms going off in the middle of the night as the poor SCA is trying to get their contract guaranteed 4 hours of sleep.

First you worry about passengers becoming trapped through their own idiocy and then you worry about the SCA's being alerted to doors being forced open. It's becoming pretty clear that no answer is good enough for you. Sheesh.

You said nothing about a door being forced open, you said:

Even successful entries could be linked to a notification panel in the SCA's room.

Hence my comment.

And frankly, I'd much rather that Amtrak spend that money on better cleaning of the cars, more staff on the train, or even towards fixing the vacuum problems on the Superliners; long before worrying about whether or not my room locks.

Alan, I don't see any pressing reason to start adding locks to Amtrak's current rolling stock. Just like I don't see any pressing reason not to add them to orders for new car deliveries. It's certainly not my highest priority for Amtrak but since it is the topic at hand I didn't think it was necessary to explain that.

You don't see a cost for installing them in new cars? You don't see increased costs for maintaining something that most likely will be rattled to death in those new cars?

 

[Donctor]

In Western Europe, I have received a keycard every time I've travelled in sleeper.