Fort Worth to Portland - am I nuts?

[Fort Worthology]

Hi all,

First, my background - I'm a resident of Fort Worth, Texas and have been intimately involved with the city's efforts to re-embrace urban development and transit. I'm a big rail supporter, and over Christmas returned to the Amtrak lines for the first time in a long while - taking a weekend trip from Fort Worth to Austin and back with my fiance. Our experiences on that trip were quite positive - the Texas Eagle was five minutes early into Austin and on-time back into Fort Worth.

So, here's the deal. We have always wanted to take a longer vacation - something we haven't done in a long time - and we want to see Portland, Oregon. Both for the city itself and to have a first-hand look at their transit systems, since Fort Worth is planning a modern streetcar system like theirs.

Now, flying would obviously be quick - a few hours or so and you're there. I used to love to fly when I was a kid, but the last several years I've grown more and more uncomfortable on planes. Not sure why exactly, perhaps due to a ton of unpleasant business trips with my previous employer and because of a rather terrifying experience flying from Mexico back to Texas not long ago (very, very rough turbulence that kinda shook me). So, really, I'm not too keen on flying, except for the speed of it.

Driving is another possibility. We have a five-year-old VW Passat wagon that is comfortable, speedy, and reliable, so I'm not worried on that front. Just that such a looooong drive would be an absolute beating. My longest driving stints previously have been to northwest Arkansas and to central New Mexico - still a long ways off from Oregon.

Which brings us around to Amtrak. It's also a long trip, though assuming all on-time not *that* much longer than driving. Which is the kicker - the "assuming all on-time" thing. I figure that the experience we had on the Eagle to Austin was part luck and partly that most of that trip is BNSF track. It's probably not much of a stretch to assume that on such a long trip as Fort Worth to Portland, that the Eagle, the San Joaquin, and the Cost Starlight might each have lateness issues. While we're not too worried about smaller delays, if it pushes out an extra day on both sides that'd be a bummer. Then, there's the cost - for all-coach it's roughly the same as airfare, but factor in roomettes for the Eagle or Starlight or both and it's substantially higher. The upside of it all, of course, is that I stay on terra firma, and that there's none of the exhaustion as with driving.

So, if there's anybody out there who's done something similar - thoughts? Is this just a pretty impractical trip via Amtrak or do you think there's a chance it might not be too bad?

I should point out that we'd been talking about doing this in June but there's no real set timetable yet, so that's flexible.

 

[darien-l]

This could be a great trip. Coast Starlight is one of the best trains in the Amtrak system, and has fantastic views to offer between Los Angeles and San Francisco. My recommendation is to take Texas Eagle to LA, spend a day there, and then take Coast Starlight to Portland the next day. That way, you only have one transfer, avoid buses, take a better train (Coast Starlight has much better ameneties and views than the San Joaquin), and have a day to relax in LA. If time or cost is an issue, consider taking the train one way and flying the other.

 

[the_traveler]

Personally, for me it would be an ideal trip! (Anyone who knows about me would agree! :lol: )

Unless you really like trains and/or have a lot of time, I personally thing this is too long and complicated of a first long trip. (You would have at least 3 trains and a bus going and at least 2 trains and and overnight stay in LA on the way back.)

If you do decide to go by train, here's some tips:

1. RESERVE ASAP (if not sooner)! The fares can only go up, and since you're thinking for June, the sooner the better.
   
2. Make sure you book train #421 out to LA and #422 back from LA. (Not #421 connecting to #1 or #2 connecting to #422.) This way you can sleep in your room during the overnight (long layover) in San Antonio instead of sitting in the station all nght long.
   
3. I would get a room between FTW and LAX (on trains #421 and #422), but personally I would forgo a room on the CS northbound (since you will be boarding at midnight).
   
4. Remember that trains #421 and #422 only have 1 thru sleeper. That means there are only 5 bedrooms, 14 roomettes, 1 family bedrom and 1 accessible room available.
   
5. Since you will need to stay overnight in LA, you may want to consider The Metro Plaza Hotel. While not the Ritz, it is not a dump either. It is reasonable, and only a short 5 minute walk from Union Station.
   
6. If you do get a room on the southbound CS, enjoy the Pacific Parlour Car!
   

And most important - enjoy the trip!

 

[Sam31452]

You should be aware who you ask about this.

Most people here will tell you that it's an absolutely great idea to do this, when you take a sleeper roomette this is probably in general the best way to travel, but Coach travel is another story. If you have no problem to sit for more than 24 hours on the same seat

if you have enough time why don't you make it a round trip?

The shortest route would be Fort Worth-Springfield-Galesburg-Sacramento-Portland and it would take you 4 days to travel.

But as you stated you can travel also Fort Worth- LA-Portland. As there are only 30 mins between your arrival in Sacramento (if you travel by the San Joaquin Valley) and the departure of the Coast Starlight, you should stay a day in or around LA and take then the Coast Starlight which has a much more scenic route.

The other option is to travel from Fort Worth to Chicago and to take, after a 24h1min layover (it's stupid but true) the Empire Builder to Portland.

So the question is: What would you like to see and how much would you like to spend?

See Amtraks System Timetable: http://www.amtrak.com/timetable/oct08/Amtr...l08Winter09.pdf

and for delays: www.amtrakdelays.com

 

[Fort Worthology]

This is some grand advice. I was a little perplexed as to why Amtrak's site kept giving me these intricate train-bus-train-train affairs when it should be possible to be much simpler.

Especially the advice about the 421 and 422 - I'd have never realized that! Would have made for a less than pleasant experience in SA.

Would you say the walk from Union Station to the Metro Plaza is a safe one? We enjoy a good walk, but don't have any experience in LA.

 

[darien-l]

The other thing is, according to http://www.amtrakdelays.com, Texas Eagle / Sunset Limited arrived an average of 38 minutes early (or at 9:02 AM) into Los Angeles during the last month, so you have an excellent chance (on the order of 90%) of catching the same-day northbound Coast Starlight, which departs at 10:15 AM. It's too bad the official connection hasn't been restored yet...

 

[Fort Worthology]

You should be aware who you ask about this.

We're already pre-disposed to enjoying the train. I figure our viewpoint is closer to the forum's than not.

The shortest route would be Fort Worth-Springfield-Galesburg-Sacramento-Portland and it would take you 4 days to travel.But as you stated you can travel also Fort Worth- LA-Portland. As there are only 30 mins between your arrival in Sacramento (if you travel by the San Joaquin Valley) and the departure of the Coast Starlight, you should stay a day in or around LA and take then the Coast Starlight which has a much more scenic route.

The other option is to travel from Fort Worth to Chicago and to take, after a 24h1min layover (it's stupid but true) the Empire Builder to Portland.

Stupid? Yeah. Not entirely surprising, though. FW-Chicago-Portland is an alternative I hadn't considered.

 

[Fort Worthology]

The other thing is, according to http://www.amtrakdelays.com, Texas Eagle / Sunset Limited arrived an average of 38 minutes early (or at 9:02 AM) into Los Angeles during the last month, so you have an excellent chance (on the order of 90%) of catching the same-day northbound Coast Starlight, which departs at 10:15 AM. It's too bad the official connection hasn't been restored yet...

Was just pulling that up as I saw your reply - I'm fairly shocked. I'd have thought that the potential for disaster (of the delay variety) between Fort Worth and LA was very high. That's actually pretty encouraging. It does seem bizarre that they wouldn't have an actual connection between the two trains (I'm sure there's a story there that I haven't heard).

 

[darien-l]

Was just pulling that up as I saw your reply - I'm fairly shocked. I'd have thought that the potential for disaster (of the delay variety) between Fort Worth and LA was very high. That's actually pretty encouraging. It does seem bizarre that they wouldn't have an actual connection between the two trains (I'm sure there's a story there that I haven't heard).

The short version of the story, as I understand it, is as follows:

A few years ago, Texas Eagle / Sunset Limited was scheduled to arrive into LA Union Station at 6:40 AM, and there was an official connection to the northbound Coast Starlight. However, Sunset Limited suffered from the worst on-time performance in the Amtrak system (to the tune of 0% on-time one year), was often many hours late, and often criticized / ridiculed for it. It became something of a poster child for Amtrak's critics in Congress. The reasons for the delays were intense freight congestion and Union Pacific's reluctance to give Amtrak trains any kind of priority. Circa 2005, Sunset Limited's schedule was heavily padded by adding about 6 hours each way to improve on-time performance. The connection to the northbound Coast Starlight was lost.

Fast-forward to 2009. Portions of the Sunset Limited's route which had the worst congestion have been double-tracked, and freight train traffic subsided because of the worsening economy. Now, Sunset Limited blazes through its route unobstructed, arriving early at most stations and having to sit there to catch up with the schedule (I experienced this first-hand two weeks ago). Amtrak recognizes this and the schedule is slowly being de-padded, so there's hope that the official connection to Coast Starlight will be restored soon.

 

[wayman]

FW-Chicago-Portland is an alternative I hadn't considered.

Since "round-trip" bookings on Amtrak are exactly the same as booking each one-way separately (quite unlike airlines), there's no cost penalty for taking completely different routes in each direction. So you could take the Texas Eagle and Coast Starlight to Portland, and the Empire Builder and Texas Eagle back to Fort Worth, traveling a grand circle and getting new scenery the whole way. The Empire Builder is a marvelous train (one of Amtrak's flagships, with a more elegant dining car) and Glacier National Park is gorgeous (and can provide you snowy grandeur and even blizzards in June).

 

[darien-l]

Would you say the walk from Union Station to the Metro Plaza is a safe one? We enjoy a good walk, but don't have any experience in LA.

That particular walk is pretty safe during the day, but at night, the area becomes somewhat deserted and eerie. In general, I would exercise some caution walking around downtown LA, it's very easy to stray into unsafe/unpleasant areas such as the skid row. A good guidebook really helps there.

Also, if you decide to stay overnight in the LA area, I would suggest making Pasadena your home base. It's only about 20 minutes from Union Station to downtown Pasadena by light rail Gold Line, and there are several good hotels right next to the Pasadena light rail station (many Pasadena hotels also have shuttles that will pick you up and drop you off right at the light rail station). In my opinion, Pasadena is a much better place to stay than downtown LA, especially if you're traveling with a woman: it's safe, walkable, civilized, has excellent restaurants and nightlife, and other attractions (check out the Huntington gardens, for example: http://www.huntington.org/). And if you want to visit Hollywood or Universal City, they're an easy metro ride away.

 

[GG-1]

Hi all,
First, my background - I'm a resident of Fort Worth, Texas and have been intimately involved with the city's efforts to re-embrace urban development and transit. I'm a big rail supporter, and over Christmas returned to the Amtrak lines for the first time in a long while - taking a weekend trip from Fort Worth to Austin and back with my fiance. Our experiences on that trip were quite positive - the Texas Eagle was five minutes early into Austin and on-time back into Fort Worth.

Aloha

Your trip plan and the replies are interesting, would love to be with you.

When I took the Texas Eagle I took this Picture of the Fort Worth Station

A security Guard approached me and told me that Pictures were

not allowed by Amtrak

I suggested to her to check with her supervisors regarding the official Policy. She then Said if I

didn't leave the Station I would be Arrested

So I returned to my train and informed my car Attendant who laffed about the guard and asked I had suggested she see him. A few minutes later as another passenger and I photographed the engine

the same guard came up to us about pictures, he said she was wrong, Amtrak permitted pictures, her answer was

you can photograph the train but not the track or buildings around it.

we both laffed at her. He has pointing out to me the Historical Hotel Where Kennedy had stayed the night before the assassination and that the room had been converted into a museum

I am pointing this out to you in the hope that you can get them to understand how silly they can be, and if they want to promote their city they must wake up.

Mahalo

Eric

 

[GG-1]

This is some grand advice. I was a little perplexed as to why Amtrak's site kept giving me these intricate train-bus-train-train affairs when it should be possible to be much simpler.
Especially the advice about the 421 and 422 - I'd have never realized that! Would have made for a less than pleasant experience in SA.

Would you say the walk from Union Station to the Metro Plaza is a safe one? We enjoy a good walk, but don't have any experience in LA.

Aloha

The Travelers advice about the Metro hotel is right on, walking to it is very easy, If I would worry it would be around 3-4 AM.

This photo was taken from the front of Union Station. Several AU Members have stayed there.

 

[George Harris]

I am assuming that Amtrak is routing you up the San Joquin valley between Los Angeles and Sacramento. That is why the bus-train-bus routine. The trains up the valley are California supported trains. To me they are great examples of what shor to medium distance trains should be. First, why bus-train bus? Between Los Angeles and Bakersfield the rail route is round about, very curvey, mountainous and congested with freight trains. So, but this segment in around 2.5 hours versus train in 5 to 6 hours. North of Bakersfield, there are six trains each way up the valley. Four go to Oakland, which is as near as you get by rail to San Francisco, and two go to Sacramento. For the Oakland trains there is a bus connection out of Stockton to Sacramento. For the Sacramento trains there is a bus connection out of Stockton to Oakland and San Francisco. (There is a bus between Emeryville and San Francisco for the Oakland trains.) The Valley trains operate push-pull with the engine on the north (Oakland/Sacramento) end. These trains tend to operate with set your watch by them timeliness. I am a fairly regular user, and usually lateness is seldom more than 10 minutes unless there is some unusual circumstance. In most coacles there is a 110V outlet at every seat. More than once I have used the grab a seat at a table, open laptop and do some useful work interspersed with food and coffee on the four hour run to Fresno out of Emeryville.

I disagree with the person that said you should skip the sleeper north of Sacramento because you leave there at midnight. I would think the reverse. You will be happy to be able to lie down again. Portland is certainly late enough in the day for you to get your money's worth out of it.

If you get into LA early enough to make the Coast Starlight out of there, you could then do it all by train. The ride is not all on the coast, but something like 100 miles of it is and is supposed to be beautiful, but I have not done it. If the Sunset gets to Pomona CA at the time shown it could be nearly an hour early into Los Angeles station itself, Notice the differece between allowed time between those points. (1h55m westboud, 41 minutes eastbound.)

To give some idea of how much slack is in the current schedule, see the following not on the schedule folder, that for certain dates, all now past, "The westbound Sunset Limited, Train 1 departing New Orleans on the dates indicated below will operate approximately four hours later than shown as it departs San Antonio with expected arrival at Los Angeles approximately 30 minutes later than shown. These changes are necessary to accommodate infrastructure maintenance being performed by the Union Pacific. Consult 1-800-USA (1-872-7245) for exact times at intermediate stations."

 

[Neil_M]

If you are planning on going via LA then I would give LA a miss and press on to Santa Barbara on a Surfliner and spend the night there and then catch the CS from there the next afternoon.

SB is a lot lot nicer than LA, nice beach and lots of places to eat and drink on State Street.

 

[GoldenSpike]

A few items FWIW if you go SAS-LAX-PDX:

1. During the layover in San Antonio, if you get off for fresh air and stretch your legs, stay very close to reboard. I learned the hard way, got locked out of my sleeper car and waited until 4-5 a.m. with the others making the same mistake before we could reboard for the trip to LAX.
   
2. If you take the CS from LAX, after I got settled in to my roomette several years ago, I went to the Parlour Car reserved only for sleeper pax. They had a continental breakfast set up before the train left at 1030 a.m.. Perhaps somebody traveling that way recently can confirm if this is still the case.
   
3. If you intend to drink wine at your 2 lunches/dinner, it is cheaper to buy a bottle at the wine and cheese tasting. You are allowed to take the bottle to your compartment and later to the diner for your meals.
   
4. Best all day view leaving LAX is on the left side. The CS skirts the Pacific for over a hundred miles as I recall.
   
5. Best view the next day - N. Califorima, going into Oregon is on the right side. Before reaching Eugene, they travel along a lake.
   
6. Consider a stop-over in PDX if you intend to go to Chicago that way. If you don't (from AMTRAK):
   

Passengers on northbound Train 14 who are connecting with eastbound 

Train 28 will transfer to Amtrak dedicated bus service between

​

Klamath Falls, OR and Pasco, WA. Bus boards trackside in Klamath Falls

​

at 9:15 a.m., stops to receive additional connecting passengers at

​

Chemult, OR at 10:45 a.m., makes a meal stop at approximately 5:00

​

p.m. at Biggs Junction, OR and arrives in Pasco at 8:15 p.m.

​

Passengers on westbound Train 7 who are connecting southbound with

​

Train 11 will transfer in Portland.

 

 

If you take the EB from PDX in sleeper, they don't have a diner. Last time I did, they provided a large chicken salad dinner w/champagne. The trade-off is they go along the Columbia River for a good stretch.

 

For a slight increase consider going all the way to SEA requiring a layover. You have to late afternoon the next day to take in the city. From SEA they do have the diner and traverse the Cascade mountain range while you dine.

 

Enjoy your trip!

 

 

[gswager]

For those who has tickets for sleeper class will get complimentary 3 meals a day (depending on the time of departure and time on arrival). So that's about $45 to 55 for 3 meals a day. Plus, the price of roomette is for up to 2 people, not room price per person. Each person will have to pay for rail fare. Plus there is free coffee, water, and juices whic is located in middle of the sleeper car.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Hi all,
First, my background - I'm a resident of Fort Worth, Texas and have been intimately involved with the city's efforts to re-embrace urban development and transit. I'm a big rail supporter, and over Christmas returned to the Amtrak lines for the first time in a long while - taking a weekend trip from Fort Worth to Austin and back with my fiance. Our experiences on that trip were quite positive - the Texas Eagle was five minutes early into Austin and on-time back into Fort Worth.

Aloha

Your trip plan and the replies are interesting, would love to be with you.

When I took the Texas Eagle I took this Picture of the Fort Worth Station

A security Guard approached me and told me that Pictures were

not allowed by Amtrak

I suggested to her to check with her supervisors regarding the official Policy. She then Said if I

didn't leave the Station I would be Arrested

So I returned to my train and informed my car Attendant who laffed about the guard and asked I had suggested she see him. A few minutes later as another passenger and I photographed the engine

the same guard came up to us about pictures, he said she was wrong, Amtrak permitted pictures, her answer was

you can photograph the train but not the track or buildings around it.

we both laffed at her. He has pointing out to me the Historical Hotel Where Kennedy had stayed the night before the assassination and that the room had been converted into a museum

I am pointing this out to you in the hope that you can get them to understand how silly they can be, and if they want to promote their city they must wake up.

Mahalo

Eric

sorry to hear about your security troubles. its sad that us rail fans can't do what we do best.

 

[Skeena_PG]

I have done a similar trip to what you are planning. In 2005 (the last multiple-night train adventure I took), I travelled OKC-FTW-LAX-SEA-VAC on trains 821, 421, 14 and 510. Had a Bedroom on 421 and 14 which was very nice, (but expensive, a roomette may be more within your budget if you want a sleeper experience). The 421 through-cars are fantastic, you can just sleep in the cars while the train is in SAS waiting for the Sunset to arrive. No Parlour car on the 14 that trip which was a bummer. The summer of 2005 was a bad year for CS OTP, and the consist we were on was scrounged up in LAX at the last minute. I am most looking forward to the Coast Starlight and the relaunched Parlour service this December.

 

[henryj]

If you are planning on going via LA then I would give LA a miss and press on to Santa Barbara on a Surfliner and spend the night there and then catch the CS from there the next afternoon.SB is a lot lot nicer than LA, nice beach and lots of places to eat and drink on State Street.

I agree with Neil. LA is not that interesting a place to stay. There is an easy connection on one of the surliners to Santa Barbara. When you make the reservation on Amtrak you have to select the multi-destination button to customize your trip, otherwise you get some interesting routings, like a return via the CS to Sacramento, CZ to Galesburg, SWC back to KC, then bus to OKC, then Hearland Flyer to FW. But I would return by a different route just to make it interesting. The Empire Builder out of Portland runs along the Columbia River for miles and the next day goes through Glacier National Park. Unfortunately you have to spend a night in Chicago before you can catch the Eagle back to FW. But, hey if you like public transit you can ride the El or the South Shore or both. Should be a fun trip.