Experience on the "Nightowl" Trains?

[Bob Dylan]

Agreed, but the idea of ordering/converting Slumber Coaches in the next equipment order for the Single Level Trains( and eventually the Superliners replacemsnts) is definitely a worthy idea no?!!

 

[Maglev]

Agreed, but the idea of ordering/converting Slumber Coaches in the next equipment order for the Single Level Trains( and eventually the Superliners replacemsnts) is definitely a worthy idea no?!!

I think the potential occupancy of Roomettes is greater then the capacity that can be achieved with a Slumber Coach design. A room for one doesn't take up much less space than a room for two.

 

[cpotisch]

I know that they SOMETIMES use diesel locomotives, but I'm not sure how often, and if they don't why would the travel duration be longer? More importantly, for those who have been on it how well was the experience? Were the trains packed, very loud, bumpy, etc? Is it a train you should avoid at all costs or always try to grab a seat on?

Firstly, they only use diesels south of D.C. Between WAS and BOS, they always use ACS-64 electrics. As to the experience, 65/66/67 are virtually identical to any other Regional. They use the exact same equipment, with the sole real difference being that it offers checked baggage. Theyre not going to be any more or less bumpy, loud, uncomfortable, etc. I personally cant speak to how crowded they usually are, but it sounds like its usually relatively empty, though it depends on the day.

 

[cpotisch]

How long has it been since the overnight northeast regionals have had sleeper service,

and is anyone aware of any future plans to add them back?

Was there a demand for them?

Amtrak discontinued sleeper service on this route when they merged the then-Federal with the Northeast Regional brand in 2004. There has been some speculation that they might bring that back upon delivery of the new Viewliner II sleepers (or perhaps even bag-dorms), however there aren’t currently any concrete plans to do so.

 

[MARC Rider]

Agreed, but the idea of ordering/converting Slumber Coaches in the next equipment order for the Single Level Trains( and eventually the Superliners replacemsnts) is definitely a worthy idea no?!!

I think the potential occupancy of Roomettes is greater then the capacity that can be achieved with a Slumber Coach design. A room for one doesn't take up much less space than a room for two.

Slumbercoach had 24 single rooms, 8 double rooms.

Viewliner has 12 roomettes, 2 bedrooms and one handicap bedroom

Slumbercoach can hold more single travellers perhaps making fares more reasonable for singles and freeing up space for couples in the roomettes.

 

[GBNorman]

When all is said and done, the Viewliner is simply the traditional Pullman floor plan of 11BR or 22RM. More directly, it is a 14RM-4BR (New Haven "--Point"). The Handicapped Room is two Bedrooms, and two Roomettes are the Attendant's and the Shower.

So a Viewliner, if so configured, could hold 44 in Double Roomettes, the 24-8 Slumbercoach, of which there were eighteen and all came into Amtrak ownership, could hold 40.

 

[Palmetto]

How long has it been since the overnight northeast regionals have had sleeper service,

and is anyone aware of any future plans to add them back?

Was there a demand for them?

Amtrak discontinued sleeper service on this route when they merged the then-Federal with the Northeast Regional brand in 2004. There has been some speculation that they might bring that back upon delivery of the new Viewliner II sleepers (or perhaps even bag-dorms), however there aren’t currently any concrete plans to do so.

The Federal?! I thought that went bye-bye in the Penn Central / early Amtrak era. I thought the train's most recent name was the Twilight Shoreliner, but I will stand corrected on that.

I rode the train between Rte 128 and DC in 2002, or so. I had an evening meeting at Boston College and a morning meeting at Catholic University, so I took the trainn, and had a roomette. After we departed, we were invited to the adjacent car, which at the time was a full lounge. We were served a complete meal on a tray, and it was quite tasty. For me, it was a new experience to do a sleeper on the NEC, and it fit my schedule perfectly.

 

[cpotisch]

How long has it been since the overnight northeast regionals have had sleeper service,

and is anyone aware of any future plans to add them back?

Was there a demand for them?

Amtrak discontinued sleeper service on this route when they merged the then-Federal with the Northeast Regional brand in 2004. There has been some speculation that they might bring that back upon delivery of the new Viewliner II sleepers (or perhaps even bag-dorms), however there aren’t currently any concrete plans to do so.

The Federal?! I thought that went bye-bye in the Penn Central / early Amtrak era. I thought the train's most recent name was the Twilight Shoreliner, but I will stand corrected on that.

It was the Twilight Shoreliner until 2003, when they renamed it the Federal. Then they merged it with the NER in 2004 and got rid of the lounge and sleepers.

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

I know that they SOMETIMES use diesel locomotives, but I'm not sure how often, and if they don't why would the travel duration be longer? More importantly, for those who have been on it how well was the experience? Were the trains packed, very loud, bumpy, etc? Is it a train you should avoid at all costs or always try to grab a seat on?

Firstly, they only use diesels south of D.C. Between WAS and BOS, they always use ACS-64 electrics. As to the experience, 65/66/67 are virtually identical to any other Regional. They use the exact same equipment, with the sole real difference being that it offers checked baggage. Theyre not going to be any more or less bumpy, loud, uncomfortable, etc. I personally cant speak to how crowded they usually are, but it sounds like its usually relatively empty, though it depends on the day.

Because 65/66/67 are the only overnight trains, the catenary is occasionally shut down for maintenance work. In those cases, a diesel locomotive is used, although an ACS-64 is still needed for other parts of the route such as near NYP. P-42s can also sometimes be seen on the route to exchange locomotives between the stations on the route that need them (WAS, PHL, NHV, BOS).

 

[railiner]

How long has it been since the overnight northeast regionals have had sleeper service,

and is anyone aware of any future plans to add them back?

Was there a demand for them?

Amtrak discontinued sleeper service on this route when they merged the then-Federal with the Northeast Regional brand in 2004. There has been some speculation that they might bring that back upon delivery of the new Viewliner II sleepers (or perhaps even bag-dorms), however there aren’t currently any concrete plans to do so.

The Federal?! I thought that went bye-bye in the Penn Central / early Amtrak era. I thought the train's most recent name was the Twilight Shoreliner, but I will stand corrected on that.

I rode the train between Rte 128 and DC in 2002, or so. I had an evening meeting at Boston College and a morning meeting at Catholic University, so I took the trainn, and had a roomette. After we departed, we were invited to the adjacent car, which at the time was a full lounge. We were served a complete meal on a tray, and it was quite tasty. For me, it was a new experience to do a sleeper on the NEC, and it fit my schedule perfectly.

How long has it been since the overnight northeast regionals have had sleeper service,

and is anyone aware of any future plans to add them back?

Was there a demand for them?

Amtrak discontinued sleeper service on this route when they merged the then-Federal with the Northeast Regional brand in 2004. There has been some speculation that they might bring that back upon delivery of the new Viewliner II sleepers (or perhaps even bag-dorms), however there aren’t currently any concrete plans to do so.

The Federal?! I thought that went bye-bye in the Penn Central / early Amtrak era. I thought the train's most recent name was the Twilight Shoreliner, but I will stand corrected on that.

It was the Twilight Shoreliner until 2003, when they renamed it the Federal. Then they merged it with the NER in 2004 and got rid of the lounge and sleepers.

The Federal has a rich history as an overnight train between Boston and Washington....

Indeed, it was at one time the ONLY thru train...before the Hell Gate Bridge was built, it operated over the Poughkeepsie Bridge, completely bypassing New York City. All other trains required one or more ferry crossings to continue on...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_(train)

 

[Palmetto]

How long has it been since the overnight northeast regionals have had sleeper service,

and is anyone aware of any future plans to add them back?

Was there a demand for them?

Amtrak discontinued sleeper service on this route when they merged the then-Federal with the Northeast Regional brand in 2004. There has been some speculation that they might bring that back upon delivery of the new Viewliner II sleepers (or perhaps even bag-dorms), however there aren’t currently any concrete plans to do so.

The Federal?! I thought that went bye-bye in the Penn Central / early Amtrak era. I thought the train's most recent name was the Twilight Shoreliner, but I will stand corrected on that.

It was the Twilight Shoreliner until 2003, when they renamed it the Federal. Then they merged it with the NER in 2004 and got rid of the lounge and sleepers.

I cannot find any reference to # 66-67 being named the Federal in 2003. Please point me to it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_(train)

 

[cpotisch]

How long has it been since the overnight northeast regionals have had sleeper service,

and is anyone aware of any future plans to add them back?

Was there a demand for them?

Amtrak discontinued sleeper service on this route when they merged the then-Federal with the Northeast Regional brand in 2004. There has been some speculation that they might bring that back upon delivery of the new Viewliner II sleepers (or perhaps even bag-dorms), however there aren’t currently any concrete plans to do so.

The Federal?! I thought that went bye-bye in the Penn Central / early Amtrak era. I thought the train's most recent name was the Twilight Shoreliner, but I will stand corrected on that.

It was the Twilight Shoreliner until 2003, when they renamed it the Federal. Then they merged it with the NER in 2004 and got rid of the lounge and sleepers.

I cannot find any reference to # 66-67 being named the Federal in 2003. Please point me to it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_(train)

Correction: It lost the sleeper when it was replaced by the Federal in 2003. A year later they just merged it with the NER brand:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/779-major-twilight-shoreliner-changes/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Shoreliner#History

https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-100599458.html

 

[railiner]

How long has it been since the overnight northeast regionals have had sleeper service,

and is anyone aware of any future plans to add them back?

Was there a demand for them?

Amtrak discontinued sleeper service on this route when they merged the then-Federal with the Northeast Regional brand in 2004. There has been some speculation that they might bring that back upon delivery of the new Viewliner II sleepers (or perhaps even bag-dorms), however there aren’t currently any concrete plans to do so.

The Federal?! I thought that went bye-bye in the Penn Central / early Amtrak era. I thought the train's most recent name was the Twilight Shoreliner, but I will stand corrected on that.

It was the Twilight Shoreliner until 2003, when they renamed it the Federal. Then they merged it with the NER in 2004 and got rid of the lounge and sleepers.

I cannot find any reference to # 66-67 being named the Federal in 2003. Please point me to it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_(train)

Correction: It lost the sleeper when it was replaced by the Federal in 2003. A year later they just merged it with the NER brand:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/779-major-twilight-shoreliner-changes/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Shoreliner#History

https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-100599458.html

Good find!

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=20030428ne&item=0008

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=20040426&item=0033

 

[Palmetto]

Thanks! l I went to that website, and missed it! It appears Wikipedia needs a little updating.

 

[cocojacoby]

The reason that it is unlikely that airline style lie flat seats will be provided for a lower fare than Roomettes is that they effectively reduce the capacity of a car since they have a larger footprint per berth than Roometttes. They are also a higher maintenance component than Roomette Berths. It won't happen.

Also, no one will create three or four cars of a different type to run on a single trains. The days of hand crafted Sleeping accommodation in a car a-la the Hilltopper are long gone.

No way. On another forum we discussed this to a great degree and even the skeptics had to conclude that this idea would allow around 40 individual "pods" or beds. And there is no way there would be more maintenance compared to roomettes/bedrooms.

 

[cpotisch]

The reason that it is unlikely that airline style lie flat seats will be provided for a lower fare than Roomettes is that they effectively reduce the capacity of a car since they have a larger footprint per berth than Roometttes. They are also a higher maintenance component than Roomette Berths. It won't happen.

Also, no one will create three or four cars of a different type to run on a single trains. The days of hand crafted Sleeping accommodation in a car a-la the Hilltopper are long gone.

No way. On another forum we discussed this to a great degree and even the skeptics had to conclude that this idea would allow around 40 individual "pods" or beds. And there is no way there would be more maintenance compared to roomettes/bedrooms.

Unless you staggered them, that options would have to take up more space per berth than a roomette. If you assume that the seat turns into a bed about the same size as a berth in a roomette, you could *at best* fit three per row, with each row taking up the same longitudinal space as a pair of roomettes. Meanwhile, each roomette has two bunks, and each "row" of roomettes has four bunks. So with a lay flat seat option, capacity would drop by 25%, while also compromising privacy and probably most of the other "fixings" that you get in a roomette (sink, toilet, thermostat, etc).

 

[jis]

The reason that it is unlikely that airline style lie flat seats will be provided for a lower fare than Roomettes is that they effectively reduce the capacity of a car since they have a larger footprint per berth than Roometttes. They are also a higher maintenance component than Roomette Berths. It won't happen.

Also, no one will create three or four cars of a different type to run on a single trains. The days of hand crafted Sleeping accommodation in a car a-la the Hilltopper are long gone.

No way. On another forum we discussed this to a great degree and even the skeptics had to conclude that this idea would allow around 40 individual "pods" or beds. And there is no way there would be more maintenance compared to roomettes/bedrooms.

Unless you staggered them, it would have to take up more space per berth than a roomette. Assuming the seat slides out into a bed about the same size as the berths in a roomettes, you could *at best* fit three per row, and each row would take up the same longitudinal space as a pair of roomettes.

cpotisch is correct and those skeptic geniuses on the other board need to go back and retake their geometry lessons.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

If you using a pod lay flat airline seat, why do you need a custom car. Grab a Amfleet pull out the seats, replace with your lay flat seats. 3 for service, 1 spare.

 

[jis]

But as soon as you do that, those four become custom cars since they cannot be used for any other train. At least my use of the term "custom car" was in that sense.

 

[keelhauled]

Some quick back of the envelope figuring seems to make it look like you could fit at a minimum 20 berths of marginally larger size than United's Polaris pods in an Amfleet II, in an angled configuration but not herringboned (no overlap). Assuming you could engineer 20% overlap, you could match the 24 roomette beds in a Viewliner. I don't see any way you can fit 40 people lying flat on a single plane, when an Amfleet has only 59 reclining seats. From there I guess it depends on revenue management and how you balance enticing single sleeper travelers to downgrade and let roomettes be fully occupied vs. coach passengers upgrading. Maybe it would allow you to push sleeper prices even higher by offering a mid-level upgrade that skims off the bottom of the sleeper market, but on the other hand if there isn't enough top level demand to replace the passengers that would go for the hypothetical business class then you just end up wrecking sleeper margins and throwing a bunch of money at retrofitting cars that don't boost the train's overall revenue. I would think the kind of data that would let you make those decisions is closely guarded by Amtrak, but if they wanted to try it there will hopefully be a whole bunch of Horizon cars to play with in five years or so. Personally I would be very interested in a product like that, but I'm just one data point.

 

[railiner]

I would like to see them experiment with some Horizon cars (since they have straight sides), and outfit them with old-fashioned "open sections". Strictly economy...no shower's, or other frills.

I figure you could put about 21 of them in a car, sleeping a max of 42 berths. And a modern design could use sliding panels for each berth instead of curtains.

This would be good on a one nighter trip, not so sure about 2 or more nights....

It really wouldn't be all that different than a Viewliner equipped with all roomettes, except for one big difference....each berth could be sold separately...

 

[Thirdrail7]

If you using a pod lay flat airline seat, why do you need a custom car. Grab a Amfleet pull out the seats, replace with your lay flat seats. 3 for service, 1 spare.

Yes...this makes perfect sense. A company that is short coaches (and has resorted to turning spare cafe cars and business class cars to coaches) should convert them to single use sleeping pod cars.

Try again.

But as soon as you do that, those four become custom cars since they cannot be used for any other train. At least my use of the term "custom car" was in that sense.

Indeed, but if we're that desperate for this experiment, there is one solution. We take the new, imposter dining car/sleeper lounges and attempt to convert them. I'm not sure what CAf would think of that or if that would impact the warranty.

If that is an issue, keep the new dining lounges, use them to fill in for the the AM-II lounges, and take the AM-2 lounges and convert them.A

All you probably need is a cool million per car. A mere bag of shells, Alice!

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

I vote for a full sleepers myself.

My point was converting a coach into a airline lay flat seating is not a custom hand built railcar.

Also like to point out Amtrak is shortly going to have two different types of sleeper, and a small (10) number of baggage sleepers. Odd balls equipment or custom equipment? Most definitely not a standard fleet, or standard trainset.

Only a matter of time into a V1 get replace with a V2. Going to be a annoyed passenger walking the hall looking for there roomette number.

 

[Ryan]

That would require VL2 sleepers to actually start being delivered. We have quite some time before that becomes an issue.

I’m not sure what you define as a “custom hand built railcar”, but taking a coach, removing the seats, and bolting down some fancy airplane seats sounds very custom and hand built to me.

 

[ehbowen]

Considering how frequently the current 20-40 year old sleepers sell out, I think that you could raise more revenue AND have more flexibility if you simply purchased more Viewliners and added additional sleeping cars to each overnight train...including 66/67.