Europe vs America

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.

lmctrouble

Train Attendant
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
56
My son's German teacher is going to retire at the end of the school year and he's planning on taking the kids on a trip to Germany this summer. I warned him that there would probably be quite a bit of train travel involved so my question is - how are the trains in Europe compared to Amtrak?
 
My son's German teacher is going to retire at the end of the school year and he's planning on taking the kids on a trip to Germany this summer. I warned him that there would probably be quite a bit of train travel involved so my question is - how are the trains in Europe compared to Amtrak?
Well there are lots of them and they run on time. When you book tickets uncheck the box that says make all close connections. They only allow sometimes as little as 10 minutes for a connection and if the train is a few minutes late you miss it. Unless you happen to take an overnight sleeper train or a couchette train, they are all coach and most are high speed. Even the ones that aren't are fast. If the trip is relatively short second class is fine. If you like steam ride the Harz Mountain narrow gauge trains. There are lots of others if you know where you are going to be.
 
Actually in my recent experience (like 2 months back in the Berlin/Magdeburg/Frankfut/Oder/Leipzig area), German trains are not all that good at time-keeping and are often as much as 15 minutes late. So generally avoid very close connections if you can.
 
Actually in my recent experience (like 2 months back in the Berlin/Magdeburg/Frankfut/Oder/Leipzig area), German trains are not all that good at time-keeping and are often as much as 15 minutes late.
American version of this sentence:

"Actually, in my recent experience, Amtrak trains are pretty good at time-keeping. Some of them were as little as 15 minutes late!"
 
True. However, it is my German friends that have been bitching about how the timekeeping of German trains have gone down the tubes and is getting worse as they invest less and less in maintenance and upkeep. They tell me that most of the delays are due to breakdowns and inability to find working train sets on occasions to protect a scheduled run etc. Sounds familiar?

Apparently the French are not in such a situation yet, though AFAIK none of the Europeans, except perhaps the Swiss come anywhere close to Japanese style time keeping.
 
German trains, eh? I've ridden them quite a bit. I like to ride the IC over the ICE, I think it's more comfortable. Get 1st Class if you can, they're not too expensive if you couple a good deal with an IC which is cheaper than ICE. No point to get 1st Class on Regio trains, they are just for short hops anyway. Too bad most of the IC don't have a true restaurant car anyway, the Bistro is not the same.

The Germans have some nice locomotives, I like the electric Baureihe 111, 120, and the diesel-hydraulic 218. Too bad the old 103 is gone, the 111 is getting rare too.

Timekeeping may not be great, but the strict Japanese timekeeping has caused safety problems like the Amagasaki wreck. 15 minutes late is no problem for me unless the ride is less than one hour. I mean, if you're riding a EL for 40 minutes and you are 15 minutes late, then it's very bad, but if you're riding an IC for 6-7 hours and you're a bit late, no problem. It's the ratio more so than the number of minutes.
 
Actually in my recent experience (like 2 months back in the Berlin/Magdeburg/Frankfut/Oder/Leipzig area), German trains are not all that good at time-keeping and are often as much as 15 minutes late. So generally avoid very close connections if you can.
My experience is that it doesn't matter. One of my trains was 30 minutes late and they just honored the ticket on the next connecting train. I thought we were really in trouble thanks to my experience with Amtrak's infrequent service but actually we were fine. Another train came along and we got in to the city a little late ... and public transit was still running when we got there. No big deal.
 
Actually in my recent experience (like 2 months back in the Berlin/Magdeburg/Frankfut/Oder/Leipzig area), German trains are not all that good at time-keeping and are often as much as 15 minutes late. So generally avoid very close connections if you can.
My experience is that it doesn't matter. One of my trains was 30 minutes late and they just honored the ticket on the next connecting train. I thought we were really in trouble thanks to my experience with Amtrak's infrequent service but actually we were fine. Another train came along and we got in to the city a little late ... and public transit was still running when we got there. No big deal.
If you book a Savings Fare you have to travel on the specific train on which you are ticketed. If you pay the much higher Standard Fare you can travel on any train of the day.

If you are afraid of missing your connection, you can uncheck "Prefer fast connections" when booking your ticket.
 
If you are traveling in a specific region and plan to do a lot of traveling in a day or a week, a Tageskarte for the region may come out to be the best choice. While in Berlin I milked a 7 day Berlin Regions ABC Tageskarte for all it was worth and more. It is valid on Regio and S Bahn trains, buses, subways and ferries. Not valid on premium trains AFAIK.
 
Actually in my recent experience (like 2 months back in the Berlin/Magdeburg/Frankfut/Oder/Leipzig area), German trains are not all that good at time-keeping and are often as much as 15 minutes late. So generally avoid very close connections if you can.
My experience is that it doesn't matter. One of my trains was 30 minutes late and they just honored the ticket on the next connecting train. I thought we were really in trouble thanks to my experience with Amtrak's infrequent service but actually we were fine. Another train came along and we got in to the city a little late ... and public transit was still running when we got there. No big deal.
If you book a Savings Fare you have to travel on the specific train on which you are ticketed. If you pay the much higher Standard Fare you can travel on any train of the day.

If you are afraid of missing your connection, you can uncheck "Prefer fast connections" when booking your ticket.
However, if you have a savings fare and miss a connecting train and it's DB fault and not yours, you can catch the next available train heading in the same direction as the one you missed. If you can it may be wise to get the train conductor of the delayed train to write a note to this effect on your ticket in case the conductor of the following train wasn't aware of the disturbance. But generally that isn't necessary as this can be verified in real time.
 
Actually in my recent experience (like 2 months back in the Berlin/Magdeburg/Frankfut/Oder/Leipzig area), German trains are not all that good at time-keeping and are often as much as 15 minutes late. So generally avoid very close connections if you can.
And furthermore they sometimes sell the connection even if there's scheduled trackwork on the line and they know all trains are delayed.

As mentioned with most connections it doesn't matter much, as a lot of lines leave hourly. But if you're having a connection to a less frequent train or to one that is reservation only (and sold out) your delay of 15 mins might cascade into hours before getting there.

Overall I think DB runs a pretty impressive operation, but when it comes to customer service - not so much...
 
Overall I think DB runs a pretty impressive operation, but when it comes to customer service - not so much...
That is what my German friends tell me. They are a classic large bureaucracy par excellence. When things run well they run very well. but when things fall apart they do so very spectacularly, with everyone pointing fingers at everyone else.
 
Overall I think DB runs a pretty impressive operation, but when it comes to customer service - not so much...
That is what my German friends tell me. They are a classic large bureaucracy par excellence. When things run well they run very well. but when things fall apart they do so very spectacularly, with everyone pointing fingers at everyone else.
As a German I wholeheartedly agree! :)

If everything goes well it's super easy. Just make sure to pack a little patience and if things go wrong, be prepared to work things out yourself a little bit. That said, strangers are usually very nice and will help you.
 
Timekeeping may not be great, but the strict Japanese timekeeping has caused safety problems like the Amagasaki wreck. 15 minutes late is no problem for me unless the ride is less than one hour. I mean, if you're riding a EL for 40 minutes and you are 15 minutes late, then it's very bad, but if you're riding an IC for 6-7 hours and you're a bit late, no problem. It's the ratio more so than the number of minutes.
Now, now. That Amagisaki wreck was an anomole by a locomotive engineer who should have never been qualified to make that run to begin with. The tight schedule keeping in Japan has not generally been a problem for the last 50 years.

15 minutes can make a HUGE difference. Most of the connections I made in Japan when I was in High School depended on connections that were timed less than five minutes apart. Yes - often there is another train right behind it, but sometimes the next train could be a half hour away. Untidy schedule keeping can have disasterous downstream results if allowed to be relaxed.

For instance, especially during peak periods, if I had only a ten minute layover from a local train to the bullet train at Tokyo Station, I would miss a train that I had reserved seats on. May not be easy to get on the next train...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Part of the reason that timekeeping in the US is so poor is perhaps because too many people at all levels actually believe that 15 minutes offset from schedule does not matter. Timekeeping is not just about technology but it is also about plain old discipline, and if we are culturally lacking in that department, no amount of technology and investment is going to fix that problem. Of course just like "security" can be used haphazardly as a reason for denying perfectly reasonable and safe access, "safety" can also similarly be used haphazardly as a reason to justify sloppy operations.
 
German trains, eh? I've ridden them quite a bit. I like to ride the IC over the ICE, I think it's more comfortable. Get 1st Class if you can, they're not too expensive if you couple a good deal with an IC which is cheaper than ICE.
It also depends when you book. I booked a EuroCity Warsaw-Berlin and ICE Berlin to Hamburg + Regio to Itzehoe all for €39. Booked 1,5 months in advance. So it's not all too bad IF you can buy your tickets early.

For instance, especially during peak periods, if I had only a ten minute layover from a local train to the bullet train at Tokyo Station, I would miss a train that I had reserved seats on. May not be easy to get on the next train...
Interesting. In Poland, very much like here, it is not uncommon to wait for a couple of hours for a connecting train. But as for the short connections, PKP will NOT guarantee any connections that are 5 minute or shorter layover. Interesting contrast to Japan.
 
Too bad the old 103 is gone,
Almost, but not quite.... Only 3 on IC passenger work yesterday. 103 113 on the regular Munster-Stuttgart-Munster run, 103 245 on its regular afternoon run from Munich to Nuremberg, and 103 235 doing an afternoon run from Frankfurt to Saarbrucken and return. Theres life in the old dogs yet... Had a very pleasant run from Mannheim to Cologne last week along the Rhine with 103 235 providing the tractive effort!

German railways have gone downhill quite badly in recent years, the longer distance IC/ICE services can rack up delays of an hour or more quite easily, although its quite possible to travel with no bother at all. Recent events like most long distance trains missing out Mainz because of a lack of signalbox staff don't inspire confidence. Recent revelations about the rather poor situation in Japan don't exactly show them in a positive light either. Only the Swiss keep at it, recent trips there are as good as ever. Just enjoy and don't sweat the small stuff, Germany is a fine country and the people are unfailingly helpful. If you are just in one area/state (lander) then the local Lander ticket allows travel for up to 5 people on all local and regional trains (plus city transport) at less than 30 Euros a day, which is a stunning deal. That ticket for whatever region is not valid on IC/ICE services, but huge areas like Bavaria have excellent local services and you can travel huge distances with little or no effort at minimal cost. If the OP has any more specific questions then just ask away...
 
Too bad the old 103 is gone,
Almost, but not quite.... Only 3 on IC passenger work yesterday. 103 113 on the regular Munster-Stuttgart-Munster run, 103 245 on its regular afternoon run from Munich to Nuremberg, and 103 235 doing an afternoon run from Frankfurt to Saarbrucken and return. Theres life in the old dogs yet... Had a very pleasant run from Mannheim to Cologne last week along the Rhine with 103 235 providing the tractive effort!

German railways have gone downhill quite badly in recent years, the longer distance IC/ICE services can rack up delays of an hour or more quite easily, although its quite possible to travel with no bother at all. Recent events like most long distance trains missing out Mainz because of a lack of signalbox staff don't inspire confidence. Recent revelations about the rather poor situation in Japan don't exactly show them in a positive light either. Only the Swiss keep at it, recent trips there are as good as ever. Just enjoy and don't sweat the small stuff, Germany is a fine country and the people are unfailingly helpful. If you are just in one area/state (lander) then the local Lander ticket allows travel for up to 5 people on all local and regional trains (plus city transport) at less than 30 Euros a day, which is a stunning deal. That ticket for whatever region is not valid on IC/ICE services, but huge areas like Bavaria have excellent local services and you can travel huge distances with little or no effort at minimal cost. If the OP has any more specific questions then just ask away...
I though they were all gone already. After checking some information, it appears they were put back into regular service this year on the aforementioned routes. I ought to get across the pond for ride. What cars were they pulling? Modern IC or historic wagons? Now I have to find some pictures and videos for sure. Are you a Fahrer?

Which exact trains did they run? I couldn't find a Munster-Stuttgart through train, so I'm not sure about 103 113, I think 103 245 runs IC 2206, and I couldn't find anything for Frankfurt-Saarbruken either, 103 235. Care to explain?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
No problem. Current state of play is this.

103 222 is a test and measurement train loco, and doesn't feature on regular passenger trains.

103 245 is based at Munich, just been for a works overhaul, and works a daily Nuremberg to Munich IC service Monday to Friday, works back to Munich on the Saturday morning and returns to Nuremberg on Sunday afternoon.

M to F train numbers 2201/2206

Sat 2301

Sun 2206

It has been used for various other trips seeing as it appears to be the Munich depot pet loco, but they are normally organised at short notice.

103 113 and 103 235 are based at Frankfurt (113 had a major works overhaul last year)

One of the locos works a 7 day diagram starting at Frankfurt on the Thursday and revolves around train numbers 118/119 between Munster and Stuttgart which are formed of Austrian IC stock.

Last week seeing as 235 was spare and they had a trained driver it worked a Sunday afternoon IC between Frankfurt and Saarbrucken and return. Thats not a regular turn though and I suppose it depends how short they are of 101s that day.

The full 7 day turn is below, note the turn on the Wednesday is generally not a 103, seems to be maintenance day! Also if the Thursday morning train off Frankfurt isn't a 103 then the turn up to the Tuesday evening won't be either...

Although with 2 working locos there now, over the last few months it has been very reliable.

Umlauf BR 103 Bh Frankfurt/Main

Monday
Day 1
119 Münster - Stuttgart 07.27 - 12.46
118 Stuttgart - Münster 15.12 - 20.29

Tuesday
Day 1
119 Münster - Stuttgart 07.27 - 12.46
2316 Stuttgart - Wiesbaden 16.36 - 18.31
Lz 78688 Wiesbaden - Frankfurt 19.00 - 20.43

Wednesday
Day 1
2099 Frankfurt - Stuttgart 05.20 - 07.00
2316 Stuttgart - Wiesbaden 16.36 - 18.31
Lz 78688 Wiesbaden - Frankfurt 19.00 - 20.43

Thursday
Day 1
2099 Frankfurt - Stuttgart 05.20 - 07.00
118 Stuttgart - Münster 15.12 - 20.29

Friday
Day 1
119 Münster - Stuttgart 07.27 - 12.46
118 Stuttgart - Münster 15.12 - 20.29

Saturday
Day 1
119 Münster - Stuttgart 07.27 - 12.46
118 Stuttgart - Münster 15.12 - 20.29

Sunday
Day 1
119 Münster - Stuttgart 07.27 - 12.46
118 Stuttgart - Münster 15.12 - 20.29


Hope this helps!!!
 
No problem. Current state of play is this.

103 222 is a test and measurement train loco, and doesn't feature on regular passenger trains.

103 245 is based at Munich, just been for a works overhaul, and works a daily Nuremberg to Munich IC service Monday to Friday, works back to Munich on the Saturday morning and returns to Nuremberg on Sunday afternoon.

M to F train numbers 2201/2206

Sat 2301

Sun 2206

It has been used for various other trips seeing as it appears to be the Munich depot pet loco, but they are normally organised at short notice.

103 113 and 103 235 are based at Frankfurt (113 had a major works overhaul last year)

One of the locos works a 7 day diagram starting at Frankfurt on the Thursday and revolves around train numbers 118/119 between Munster and Stuttgart which are formed of Austrian IC stock.

Last week seeing as 235 was spare and they had a trained driver it worked a Sunday afternoon IC between Frankfurt and Saarbrucken and return. Thats not a regular turn though and I suppose it depends how short they are of 101s that day.

The full 7 day turn is below, note the turn on the Wednesday is generally not a 103, seems to be maintenance day! Also if the Thursday morning train off Frankfurt isn't a 103 then the turn up to the Tuesday evening won't be either...

Although with 2 working locos there now, over the last few months it has been very reliable.

Umlauf BR 103 Bh Frankfurt/Main

Monday

Day 1

119 Münster - Stuttgart 07.27 - 12.46

118 Stuttgart - Münster 15.12 - 20.29

Tuesday

Day 1

119 Münster - Stuttgart 07.27 - 12.46

2316 Stuttgart - Wiesbaden 16.36 - 18.31

Lz 78688 Wiesbaden - Frankfurt 19.00 - 20.43

Wednesday

Day 1

2099 Frankfurt - Stuttgart 05.20 - 07.00

2316 Stuttgart - Wiesbaden 16.36 - 18.31

Lz 78688 Wiesbaden - Frankfurt 19.00 - 20.43

Thursday

Day 1

2099 Frankfurt - Stuttgart 05.20 - 07.00

118 Stuttgart - Münster 15.12 - 20.29

Friday

Day 1

119 Münster - Stuttgart 07.27 - 12.46

118 Stuttgart - Münster 15.12 - 20.29

Saturday

Day 1

119 Münster - Stuttgart 07.27 - 12.46

118 Stuttgart - Münster 15.12 - 20.29

Sunday

Day 1

119 Münster - Stuttgart 07.27 - 12.46

118 Stuttgart - Münster 15.12 - 20.29


Hope this helps!!!
Great info, I've been able to find the Nuremburg-Munich with no difficulty, but I can't find the Munster-Stuttgart. Is it supposed to be Munster Bahnhof-Stuttgart Hauptbahnhof? Couldn't find anything, don't know what's going on. Thanks anyway.

Thanks, that's the Munster-Stuttgart, right? It's got those Austrain wagons. What lake is that?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top