Empire Builder's Troubles continue into the Fall

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TraneMan said:
Ispolkom said:
montana mike said:
My BNSF contacts say realistically that 2016 is when things "could" get back to where they should be able to consider looking at the old schedule again.
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By 2016, not only will BNSF's improvements be coming to fruition, but new pipelines will start coming on line, removing oil traffic from the Hi Line.
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I thought they were not going to do the pipeline? Did something changed?
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Which pipeline do you mean? There are a whole bunch of projects in the works. Two apparently fell apart, but two new were proposed. It's all a matter of getting guaranteed shipments set up to get financing to build the pipes. Well, that and getting approval for your route. My bet for first finished is the Sandpiper project, though the Minnesota PUC is unhappy about its route.

As far as I know, mature oil fields generally don't use rail, because pipelines or water transport are so much cheaper.
 
Looks like the westbound detour in ND will continue through January, with a possible "reassessment" prior to the December
holiday period. Previously the detour was set to conclude at the end of September. This is technically a separate issue

from the "temporary" schedule (i.e. the extra padding), but they probably go hand-in-hand in terms of how long it will last.

Empire Builder: Slight Schedule Changes Made While Delays Continue; Temporary Detour Affects Westbound Service in North Dakota

Effective through January 12, 2015

Amtrak has made slight changes to Empire Builder schedules through January 12, 2015, due to expected operating conditions.

Update on Delayed Trains

Passengers traveling aboard Empire Builder trains can encounter delays due to high volumes of freight train traffic and railroad improvement work on the route. During recent weeks, these trains typically encountered delays of approximately one to three hours. Passengers are strongly urged to check the status of their train on Amtrak.com, our free mobile apps or at 800-USA-RAIL (1-800-872-7245) for the most up-to-date departure and arrival times.

North Dakota Detour for Westbound Passengers

Amtrak is temporarily using an alternate westbound route in North Dakota, resulting in Empire Builder Train 7/27 missing Amtrak stations in Grand Forks, Devils Lake and Rugby. Passengers who are traveling to these cities will detrain at Fargo and be provided chartered bus service to their destination stations. Westbound passengers who are boarding at Grand Forks, Devils Lake and Rugby will be carried to Minot on chartered buses to board the westbound train.

Amtrak will reassess the detour before the December holiday period.

BNSF Railway is improving the route to restore Empire Builder reliability. Meanwhile, the eastbound Empire Builder Train 8/28 operates normally and makes all scheduled stops.
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I know this is a one-of. We boarded #7 on Friday afernoon and departed at the scheduled time. I was not paying too close attention to the new padded schedule, but here are some locations:

Arrived in minneapolis at about 10 PM. Daughter and I played cards until about 1, and went to bed. Arrived in Minot on schedule. Continuing west we were at East Glacier at about 7 or 7:30. We departed Spokane on #27 at 4 AM and arrived in Portland at about 11:30 or noon.

We did good.
 
fairviewroad said:
Looks like the westbound detour in ND will continue through January, with a possible "reassessment" prior to the December

holiday period. Previously the detour was set to conclude at the end of September. This is technically a separate issue

from the "temporary" schedule (i.e. the extra padding), but they probably go hand-in-hand in terms of how long it will last.
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I'd expect the detour to end before the "temporary schedule" actually. The detour could end as soon as BNSF finishes the additional sidings and track improvements on the Devil's Lake route from Fargo to Minot; whereas the "temporary schedule" will probably be needed until all the track improvements west of Minot are completed as well. :-(
 
#7 today in ND dropped over 5 hours as they traveled thru the choke point. #8 lost about 3 hours going eastbound thru the same area. So much for the timing improving in the Fall. Rats.......
 
Update for AM 9-26: #7 is now 7 hours behind in WA and #8 is now over 4 hours late in MN. I am not seeing any consistent improvement over what we saw this summer. My BNSF contacts say the congestion (with even heavier freight traffic forecast over the next three months-arrrgh) and construction continues, with construction to wind down in about 6 weeks. So it would appear that the mostly delayed Empire Builders will continue........
 
Amtrak notified me that my trip on 8 leaving Chicago 12/19 has my arrival time into Everett, WA "changed" so I guess the extended schedule is now official through the end of the year. I assumed that would be the case when I made the reservation, BTW.
 
BNSF people have told Amtrak all along that no real consistent improvements in on time performance can be expected until most of their track work is completed in 2016. So I guess it is just a long waiting game. Side note: Several senior BNSF people recommended to Amtrak that the current additional padding be made permanent btw. So far Amtrak is not too keen on that idea. I know the three hour shift in Eastbound arrivals to WFH made a mess of tourist travel this summer (arriving at 4 AM causes real challenges for both travelers and tourism related businesses alike). I don't have hard numbers in front of me, but the times I traveled on the Empire Builder this year under the new schedule, the number of pax getting off in WFH appeared to be significantly lower and the number getting on was lower too. Oh, well. It is what it is. At least we still have service, albeit somewhat of an adventure!
 
Additional padding should never be made permanent; that's just a scam on the part of the Class Is to not do their job. Rule of thumb, whatever the timetable was in 1936 using steam, the Class Is should damn well be able to meet it today.
 
Well, reality, sadly, says otherwise. I personally don't see how the old schedule could be met given the current set of circumstances on the Hi-line, which will continue for many more months (note here: The local BNSF folks say, while some construction does continue over portions of the BNSF northern routes, most of the big initiatives for 2014 are wrapping up right now, with just "odds and ends" continuing for another 4-6 weeks. They have made it clear, what we see now is just about what will be available as far as capacity until construction starts up in earnest late spring 2015). I look at the BNSF stats each week and they really are not improving much at all, in fact many indicators actually got worse this week. #8 arrives in Chicago, on average over three hours late and that is with the 3 hours of additional padding that was added to the schedule. That's 6 hours of additional transit time from SEA/PDX to CHI on average for every run. A lot of "good things" need to happen over the next couple of years on this segment of BNSF trackage for ANY passenger train to resume decent timekeeping.
 
Still accepting freight traffic they can't handle. Gotta learn to say "not this year" to the oil drillers.
 
neroden said:
Still accepting freight traffic they can't handle. Gotta learn to say "not this year" to the oil drillers.
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Interestingly, when I asked about the impact of the oil trains, the BNSF people said while these were a factor, it was the overall freight loadings-with a record grain load this year and intermodal traffic, leading the way. They admitted that the railroad has been totally remiss in not forecasting the increases in LD freight movements.

Wow--I just saw #8 dropped over 6 hours between DVL and GFK this AM, another EB down the tubes. Arrrrgh.
 
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And #8, still west of MSP is now over 9 hours late--good grief. This rivals the worst mess from earlier in the summer. So much for hoping to see a return to a more "normal" timekeeping operation. Bummer.

Three Hours Later: #8 is going nowhere just outside of RDW, looks like the pax on this train are in for an early Saturday AM arrival in CHI.

SIX HOURS LATER: In one of life's little ironies, the LSL isn't leaving CHI until 11 PM at the earliest tonight, and STILL any pax on the very, very late #8 chugging along in WI now will miss the LSL connection because today's #8 is now 9 1/2 hours late and won't arrive CHI until 1 or 2 AM on Saturday--terrible!

:-(
 
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Ahhh,nothing like pulling into CHI at 1 AM on a Sunday morning. Tough to get a cab and just delightful to walk around the deserted streets (except for drunks and other unfriendlies). Today's #8 must have been one heck of a trip!

:-((
 
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Yes, Chicago Union Station is not very friendly to late-arriving Amtrak passengers.

Not after midnight.

While the rest of the town hops -- man the blues bars don';t close until 04:00 or so.

And then it's only a couple hours until CUS opens again, to wait for the nex-day trains -- total BS

Most always, anyone with a clue can get through an Amtrak misconnect, especially these EB ones that have been known and publicized for a year or two.

As for saying "no, poor travelers have no clue" -- worry, most LD customers on the Hi-Line (according to latest stats) are "visiting relatives"

And the rellies know -

The EB is almost always late. but it almost always runs.
 
How do the early departure times of the temporary schedule affect scenery watching eastbound out of Seattle and through Glacier National Park?
 
This time of the year almost all of the transit thru the Park is during the dark--unfortunately-with the 3 hour earlier start. it just starts getting light as you leave the Park.

:-(
 
In June on our way back from SEA the EB arrived in CHI at around 3:15 AM thereby causing all passengers with connections East to miss them. By the time everyone got their baggage it was nearly 4 AM and we were bussed to a Doubletree hotel outside the city limits arriving at 4:30 AM. We were checked in and got to sleep at 5 AM only to awake at 10AM for breakfast and the 11 AM bus ride back to CUS.

With 250 oil trains departing the Bakken region and clogging the rails in No Dakota every week, short of a second track I do not see how the EB schedule can or will improve anytime soon. If you decide to take the EB going East plan on spending the evening in Chicago. The schedule is too unpredictable to do anything less.
 
BNSF's plans thru 2015 are to double track about 115 miles of the Hi-Line route (plus some additional sidings in key locations)-so far in 2014 about 30 miles was double tracked. With the existing double track that still means perhaps a thousand miles of single track (and some sidings) along the entire route. Realistically, I don't think BNSF has enough resources to double track all of the Hi-Line route, nor do they need to do so. The main choke points run from eastern MT into western MN. If they could concentrate on greatly increasing capacity on this stretch that would likely make the most difference. The majority of the oil moves to the east and south btw.

What many people are also missing is the notable increase in Intermodal traffic as well. Trucking firms are putting more and more vans on the trains for long haul movements. Not as fast as teams of drivers, but a heck of a lot cheaper.
 
Just a few years back BNSF went through the same massive double tracking operation on the ex ATSF freight line. Expect much the same operation here. However, the climate is much harsher and the work season shorter. Expect this work to continue for a few years until capacity catches up with traffic volume. Exactly when that will be no one is willing to predict as changes in traffic volume will result in changes in targeted capacity increases.
 
The local BNSF folks say they have been told no additional double tracking after 2015 (only additional sidings at additional locations), which would mean they are figuring that the 115 miles worth of new tracks is going to solve the current problems. I asked them point blank-do they think this will solve the current issues-and everyone of them here in MT that I have spoken with has said NO! Hmmmm, perhaps a disconnect between the folks working "in the trenches" and up in the ivory tower of senior management????

PS--I agree totally that the climate issue along the Hi-Line presents an entirely different challenge, since the construction season is much shorter (6-7 months) and the weather conditions change dramatically (some places in eastern MT and ND see 100 degrees in the summer and 40 below in the winter!!)
 
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