Denver's Ski Train Returns in 2017 (Winter Park)!

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Last night, I caught Amtrak #5(03) at Ottumwa, Iowa with three locomotives and eight Superliners on the head-end for the Winter Park Express. The third unit was the anniversary unit AMTK 156. I guessing that one is going to the power for the Express. Over the radio, the crew kept calling their Zephyr "heavy." As the train is trying to depart at the 1:50 mark, you can just here someone say "I think I can, I think can."

 
If no one has already mentioned it, I will: this will be a push-pull operation using an non-powered F-40 on one end.
 
Agent said:
Over the radio, the crew kept calling their Zephyr "heavy."
Click to expand...
In the aviation world "heavy" is a standard (but unsanctioned) term that is used in the US to draw attention to wing vortices and wake turbulence from nearby aircraft. Is there any actual relevance to using such a term in the rail transportation world or is it strictly a cutesy term for a slightly unusual event? Amtrak's heaviest passenger train would still be a lightweight compared to almost any freight train, but do really long and/or heavy freight trains warrant any special terminology during radio communications?
 
I'm not sure it would be called unsanctioned, it is now used worldwide, anything over 300,000 MTOW is a heavy and is transmitted as such. The 757 is not technically a "heavy", but gets the special treatment for separation due to the wing vortices and wake turbulence potential. I share your curiosity as to its application in rail.
 
This may seem like a silly question, but why would they only do one round trip per day? Won't the equipment and crew just be sitting around most of the day? Unless the engineer and conductors plan to ski too!

But seriously, I would hate to have to wake up to be at the station for 7am, They could easily do a 7 am and 1pm train to Winter park and a 10 am and 4pm train back to Denver.... I know ridership is a huge factor and track right of way, but still.....
 
Albo5000 said:
This may seem like a silly question, but why would they only do one round trip per day? Won't the equipment and crew just be sitting around most of the day? Unless the engineer and conductors plan to ski too!

But seriously, I would hate to have to wake up to be at the station for 7am, They could easily do a 7 am and 1pm train to Winter park and a 10 am and 4pm train back to Denver.... I know ridership is a huge factor and track right of way, but still.....
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The purpose of this trip is to allow for a day of skiing for Denver area residents, which the schedule provides. Who would ride the 10 a.m trip back to Denver? This is an excursion train chartered by a special interest group, not a regular Amtrak train.
 
Albo5000 said:
This may seem like a silly question, but why would they only do one round trip per day? Won't the equipment and crew just be sitting around most of the day? Unless the engineer and conductors plan to ski too!

But seriously, I would hate to have to wake up to be at the station for 7am, They could easily do a 7 am and 1pm train to Winter park and a 10 am and 4pm train back to Denver.... I know ridership is a huge factor and track right of way, but still.....
Click to expand...

Questions that come to mind:

What did the host railroad allow?

What is the demand in ridership? In other words, some people may return the same day, but some may stay overnight. The numbers clearly reflect that. So, while I can see a person that is staying overnight starting their day in the afternoon, you haven't calculated any extra costs for host fees, fuel, wear and tear.

Additionally, you'd need another crew since one crew is currently covering this move with an FRA interim release. If they ran more trains, you'd need another crew or they'd have to come back earlier.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
Agent said:
Over the radio, the crew kept calling their Zephyr "heavy."
Click to expand...
In the aviation world "heavy" is a standard (but unsanctioned) term that is used in the US to draw attention to wing vortices and wake turbulence from nearby aircraft. Is there any actual relevance to using such a term in the rail transportation world or is it strictly a cutesy term for a slightly unusual event? Amtrak's heaviest passenger train would still be a lightweight compared to almost any freight train, but do really long and/or heavy freight trains warrant any special terminology during radio communications?
Click to expand...

The term generally applies to slow acceleration. When a dispatcher hears that term, they know it will take extra time for the train to achieve track speed.
 
At the NARP meeting, the Winter Park guy was asked about multiple trains per day and he said "Let's start with one," and then started discussing negotiations with Union Pacific. So the implication I got is that doing a second train might require him to pay more to Union Pacific and they wanted to see how well the first train would do first.

Hopefully in a year or two there will be a second run (Winter Park -> Denver in the morning, Denver -> Winter Park in the afternoon) for those who like to stay overnight and have a more leisurely schedule, but it'll be a smaller market.
 
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I saw Amtrak #6(05) come through Agency, Iowa today five hours late with only one engine. The original lead unit, as seen on Mr. Steve4031's trip report here, became the lead unit on the first run on the Winter Park Express.

 
Devil's Advocate said:
Agent said:
Over the radio, the crew kept calling their Zephyr "heavy."
Click to expand...
In the aviation world "heavy" is a standard (but unsanctioned) term that is used in the US to draw attention to wing vortices and wake turbulence from nearby aircraft. Is there any actual relevance to using such a term in the rail transportation world or is it strictly a cutesy term for a slightly unusual event? Amtrak's heaviest passenger train would still be a lightweight compared to almost any freight train, but do really long and/or heavy freight trains warrant any special terminology during radio communications?
Click to expand...
Building on PVD's response farther up, rather than being unsanctioned, "heavy" is a required term for any aircraft with a maximum gross weight over 300,000 pounds. Typically, any widebody is a heavy and back when they operated, long range DC-8s were "heavy" as well (may have applied to the 707 as well but I was never in a position to hear one of those).
 
They're using the "Ski Train" platform. :) It was designed into Union Station specifically so the Ski Train would have a separate platform from the California Zephyr (in case a delayed Zephyr was in the station at the same time, I guess).
 
Quite unexpectedly, unlike other Amtrak special trains, this one shows up on Track-A-Train and caused some issues with my site earlier as "WPR" is a brand new station code.

All should be fixed for tomorrow.
 
 
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Video by YouTube user CrookedandSlow showing the first run of the Winter Park Express.

 
Did you notice which unit(s) were providing HEP both up and back to DEN ? 406 or one of the P-42s ?

Would suspect that 406 would be used for HEP if one of the P-42s failed ?

The only problem with the whole line up is using DC traction motored P-42s. What if some weekend fine powder snow that can short DCs is forecast for the route ?
 

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