Customs check in Montreal station?

[BCL]

Very interesting about the Border expierence. Same thing is true along the Southern Border with Mexico.

Lots of "American Citizens" born on this side are children of Mexican Citizens, and live in Mexico until its time to start school, then commute back and forth across the Border to school!

Its become a huge political issue as we know, see the rise of " The Donald"!

Well - I was recently in the area, so the Tsawwassen, BC-Point Roberts, WA border has got to be the oddest I've heard of.

Apparently residents of Point Roberts must go to public schools in Blaine, WA, which is a fairly long bus ride. However, the border wait times are supposed to be pretty short. I wonder how much this is costing both sides.

Now, I was previously getting at the strange disconnect between the Canadian entrance requirements for US citizens (we just want you to prove to us you're a US citizen) vs the US reentry requirements for US citizens (we want you to show us an approved document). I understand that travel across the border and back used to be extremely common with just a birth certificate and photo ID, but that's a thing of the past. I'm wondering who would think to get into Canada with just a US city/county/state issued birth certificate and photo ID, since the US reentry documents are different. I suppose they're not in the business of denying reentry to US citizens, so they'll just tell someone to go to their office while they sort it out by checking their database. I really doubt this would work on a train though. At least when I took the ferry back to Washington state, there was a prescreening on the Canada side to at least check to see we had the proper documents along with questions about what we were bringing back and the requirements to do so. We had some unlabeled produce that we were told to finish and/or dispose before entering Washington. We were also told that an produce with an origin label in the US was fine.

 

[jis]

If you seriously believe that US CBP is not in the business of denying entry to US by undocumented (in their opinion) US citizens then you may be quite disappointed. For this reason the Canadians will generally not accept any documentation of US citizenship other than those accepted by the US to allow re-entry to allow entry into Canada. As a matter of fact there are a couple of documents that US will accept for entry into US, but Canada will not accept as proof of US citizenship for the purposes of entering Canada. One example is the GOES Id Card.

I know of at least two cases involving lost Passport who were very happily sent back from the border by CBP, back to Canada to go to a US Consulate and get themselves replacement documentation!

BTW about citizenship. US requires that you explicitly renounce any other citizenship that you have when you naturalize (of course the country involved may just ignore your explicit statement by their law, since they don;t care what the US records show about such matters ). But the US does not mind you acquiring any other citizenship. As long as in the process you do not renounce the US citizenship you get to keep your US citizenship. That is the technique that is used by many who have dual citizenship, or even acquire dual citizenship while being a US citizen by birth. I know several people who have acquired Irish (EU) citizenship via proof of descent from Irish citizen while being a US citizen by birth. EU does not require renunciation of other citizenship.

OTOH, India for example does not allow dual citizenship. However, it has a special category called Overseas Citizen of India, which anyone who can establish they are either born in India or are descendants from someone born in India upto two generations back (i.e. Grandparents) can acquire this status which gives all rights of an Indian citizen except to vote and hold an Indian Passport! Oddly enough the citizenship by birth rules that apply were established by the Government of India Act 1935 many years before independence and subsequently modified to apply only to the area which is currently in India, and explicitly excludes areas that are not in India any more. But I digress....

 

[BCL]

If you seriously believe that US CBP is not in the business of denying entry to US by undocumented (in their opinion) US citizens then you may be quite disappointed. For this reason the Canadians will generally not accept any documentation of US citizenship other than those accepted by the US to allow re-entry to allow entry into Canada. As a matter of fact there are a couple of documents that US will accept for entry into US, but Canada will not accept as proof of US citizenship for the purposes of entering Canada. One example is the GOES Id Card.

The Canada Border Services Agency says that they'll accept a birth certificate and ID from US citizens. I'm going by that. I specifically used a passport card though.

http://cbsa.gc.ca/travel-voyage/ivc-rnc-eng.html#a1a

Identification requirements for U. S. citizens and permanent residents

If you are a U.S. citizen or permanent resident, you must carry proof of citizenship such as a passport, birth certificate, a certificate of citizenship or naturalization, a U.S. Permanent Resident Card, or a Certificate of Indian Status along with photo identification. If you are a U.S. permanent resident, ensure you carry proof of your status such as a U.S. Permanent Resident Card.

US CPB says that it has to be a specific set of documents. They also mention the Global Entry as only allowing entry into the US.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/74/~/us-citizens---documents-needed-for-entry-into-the-u.s.

As far as my argument goes about reentry, they supposed to be in the business of allowing US citizens into the US. The CPB Inspectors Field Manual even states that the overriding concern is an establishment of US citizenship, using any and all documents presented.

http://foiarr.cbp.gov/streamingWord.asp?i=910

 

[jis]

I am just stating real life experiences. I have no clue what are their instructions that causes them to behave the way they do.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

[SIZE=11pt]Here’s another one of those idiosyncrasies of the Border.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Looks like a divided highway doesn’t it? But it’s actually ‘0’ Ave in Aldergrove BC (on the right) and E. Boundary Rd in Whatcom Co. Washington State (on the left) The Border runs down the centre of the ditch: [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]

[/SIZE]

 

[PVD]

Something to remember is that the documentation requirements are different for land and sea entry versus air entry. I have a NYS Enhanced Drivers License, it can only be issued to a verified US citizen. I can drive, take the train, or get off a cruise ship (all of which I have done) or fly domestically with it. It is not accepted by US CBP for entry into the US by airplane internationally. This is all the so called "WHTI" (western hemisphere travel initiative) regulation. Yes, US regulations may differ from the country you are going to or from, remember that ultimately, a country always has a choice of denying entry to someone who is not a citizen of that country, many folks get turned back at the Canadian border with pending DUI cases in the US. Innocent until proven guilty in the US doesn't mean they have to let you in. It's their country. This catches folks off guard pretty regularly.

 

[BCL]

Something to remember is that the documentation requirements are different for land and sea entry versus air entry. I have a NYS Enhanced Drivers License, it can only be issued to a verified US citizen. I can drive, take the train, or get off a cruise ship (all of which I have done) or fly domestically with it. It is not accepted by US CBP for entry into the US by airplane internationally. This is all the so called "WHTI" (western hemisphere travel initiative) regulation. Yes, US regulations may differ from the country you are going to or from, remember that ultimately, a country always has a choice of denying entry to someone who is not a citizen of that country, many folks get turned back at the Canadian border with pending DUI cases in the US. Innocent until proven guilty in the US doesn't mean they have to let you in. It's their country. This catches folks off guard pretty regularly.

I would get an enhanced driver license if I could, but it's up to the state whether or not it wished to issue one. You'd think California would be an ideal state given the border with Mexico, but they haven't done it. The oddest thing is that Texas's legislature authorized one, and the then governor signed the legislation. However, he unilaterally decided not to implement it based on some strange idea that they might be invalidated later, even with assurances from DHS that wouldn't happen.

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southcentral/2008/01/24/86689.htm

Also - even after the supposed requirements for specific travel documents, US CPB has allowed people back into the US.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Passport-please-but-license-will-do-842139.php

BROWNSVILLE - U.S. citizen? Your passport, please.

Well, OK, a driver's license will do. But you're out of compliance.

A year ago, the Homeland Security Department started requiring U.S. citizens to have passports or other special documents to cross the border from Canada or Mexico.

Today, the word is spreading: It's not being enforced.

Customs officers have been accepting conventional drivers' licenses, expired passports or even school identification cards - none of which is an approved document.

Offenders are handed a flier describing the rules under a large red headline: "Noncompliant." In some cases, Customs officers simply check the drivers' license numbers of noncompliant citizens on a computer and send them on their way.

"We're being flexible," homeland security spokeswoman Joanne Ferreira said. "As a U.S. citizen, you will not be denied entry."

She said there were no fines for noncompliance - yet. Penalties, she said, are "something we're looking into."

 

[PVD]

EDL's are only issued by NY, Michigan, Vermont, and Washington. Going over the border to Canada is pretty common, I'm a little surprised a few more Northern border states are not on the list. Especially Maine, a number of small towns use services in Canada on a regular basis. Most of the border is unguarded anyway.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Based on personal experience @ the Canadizn and Mexican Borders, I would NOT leave the US without a Valid Passport!

I do not believe what that HLS flack said, don't put your trust in press releases from the Government!

No papers, no entry! Happens every day at both borders! YMMV

 

[PVD]

There are a few choices other than passport, but they are not available to everyone. I wouldn't narrow my choice that much, but I agree that I would not cross without having one of the documents listed on their website or in their current pamphlets. I would never put my trust in a local outpost or branch.

 

[BCL]

There are a few choices other than passport, but they are not available to everyone. I wouldn't narrow my choice that much, but I agree that I would not cross without having one of the documents listed on their website or in their current pamphlets. I would never put my trust in a local outpost or branch.

Of course there's the enhanced driver license or ID. That's limited by the state of residence. The passport card is kind of interesting. I've used mine a lot for various purposes, and I finally got to use it to cross into Canada and back into the US. Other documents can be obtained by most US citizens, but they're generally not going to be obtained without a specific purpose since they may require some sort of background check or test.

Certainly I wouldn't recommend putting one's faith into some bureaucrats doing what they're supposed to. They have a certain amount of discretion to allow people in if they trust they are US citizens. Doesn't mean they always will, but their training is supposed to be that they should determine if someone is a US citizen and then to allow said US citizens in. Of course an approved document is the preferred way.

 

[jebr]

EDL's are only issued by NY, Michigan, Vermont, and Washington.

Minnesota also issues enhanced driver's licenses. This started about a year and a half ago.

 

[BCL]

The NEXUS (US-Canada) and SENTRI (for Mexico) cards are all WHTI-approved documents. They're all valid for travel in place of a passport card, but I'm not sure who really would want to go through the trouble (background checks, fingerprinting, interview) unless one is a trucker or maybe an international courier.

I understand that the NEXUS card is issued by both the US and Canada, and it can be issued to permanent residents. However, any permanent resident of the US would already have a green card by definition.

 

[jebr]

Both offer Global Entry and TSA Precheck benefits. Furthermore, it should speed up entry into Canada for the NEXUS card as you're already pre-vetted by both the US and Canada.

 

[PVD]

Minnesota makes sense, but it is not on the CBP website, so if they are now participating I apologize. Keep in mind that the term Enhanced Divers License has two separate and distinct meanings, one relates to security features on the license itself and the manner in which it is issued, that is required for all states now, and the other meaning which relates to border crossing. If Minnesota joined the second category it would be a good thing, it would be nice if CBP added that. Passport Card is a waste if you can get an EDL because it is not valid for air travel, costs almost as much as a passport book, and you are almost always going to carry a drivers license (or state non driver id) anyway. There are a number of business travelers that are constantly flying in and out of the country, some of the "trusted Travel" stuff is worth it for them because the wait times when you can use the kiosk check is usually much less.

 

[BCL]

Passport Card is a waste if you can get an EDL because it is not valid for air travel, costs almost as much as a passport book, and you are almost always going to carry a drivers license (or state non driver id) anyway. There are a number of business travelers that are constantly flying in and out of the country, some of the "trusted Travel" stuff is worth it for them because the wait times when you can use the kiosk check is usually much less.

It's nowhere near as much as a passport book. The current passport card is $30, while a passport book is $110. If eligible for "renewal" (adult passport book or passport card issued within the past 15 years) there's no other costs other than mailing/printing and photos. When I got my passport card in 2009, it was only $20 since I already had a passport book. I took my own photo, got prints at a discount store photo lab, and mailed it in. The State Dept had a pilot program where passport cards were issued through online-only application, so the applicant didn't have to print up anything and the photo only needed to be in a file and not a physical print.

I kind of like it simply as an ID. It doesn't have my address on it, in case I'm paranoid that someone might know I'm not at home. I've used it at airports as photo ID. One reason why I got it back in 2009 was that California was in danger of not meeting ReadID requirements, as they were getting waivers that could have expired. I've also used it for I-9 employment eligibility verification, which can't be done with an EDL alone (it does count as a photo ID). And it fits in my wallet. It costs so little that I'm not too worried about the expense. A driver license in my state costs as much and is only valid for 5 years, while a passport card is valid for 10 years.

 

[jis]

I never bothered to get a Passport Card since I seldom cross a border while not in a plane, and even when I cross into Canada on ground I want to keep the option open to return by air in case of an emergency.

However, when I renewed my Global Entry, paid for by United Airlines, I got a Global Entry Card this time, which serves as a very nice federal government issued photo Id card, as a backup to the Real id Drivers License.

For crossing any borders though, I always use my Passport book.

Oddly enough the Global Entry Kiosks at present have no way of using the Global Entry Card and require a Passport book!

The previous incarnation of Global Entry in the form of INS Pass required the INS Pass Card and could not use the Passport book!

 

[BCL]

I never bothered to get a Passport Card since I seldom cross a border while not in a plane, and even when I cross into Canada on ground I want to keep the option open to return by air in case of an emergency.

However, when I renewed my Global Entry, paid for by United Airlines, I got a Global Entry Card this time, which serves as a very nice federal government issued photo Id card, as a backup to the Real id Drivers License.

I suppose everyone has different needs. I don't travel enough that I can justify the expense and background checks for the frequent traveler documents. I also like that the passport card can be used for employment eligibility verification, when none of the other WHTI travel documents do other than a passport. And I only spent $20 plus some minor costs. At the time I thought it was a great deal.

When we traveled to British Columbia, we did have our passport books stowed away in case we needed to fly out on short notice. However, it was a lot easier to whip out the passport cards, which I stored in my wallet.

Heck - my kid has both a passport book and passport card. Even has a state ID now, and I used the passport card as proof of eligibility for the state ID.

 

[jis]

BCL you are absolutely right. If I did not travel abroad 5 or 6 times every year, I would probably not bother with Global Entry. but on the whole the so called background check for Global Entry is pretty non-intrusive, and was not a huge bother, and the fee was always paid by someone else - either American Express or United Airlines or someone like that. The guaranteed (almost 100%) TSA-Pre that comes with it kinda nice too. but again, someone who does not fly a 100,000 miles a year in 75 segments or more, will not find that all the useful.

OTOH, even the TSA-Pre line gets so long in Orlando sometimes that I revived my Clear account to bypass even that! but that is much pricier, but worth it when you fly 2 to 3 times a month through that airport.

 

[PVD]

I guess if they charge that much for drivers lic. renewal, I see your point. We get 8 years, and a small extra fee for enhanced. Its actually $55 for the card when you add the execution fee, plus you pay for pictures, again, depending on where you live and what type of travel you do really dictates. I probably should have said "waste for me" not generalizing. I need a book to fly, the EDL handles everything else, if it was not available, I agree that I'm not sure I'd want to drive around with the book, the wallet card might be better. I did an I-9 when they first came out, I probably didn't have a passport at that time and probably gave them drivers license and a birth certificate on papyrus. NY was the next to the last state in the US to have pictures on drivers licenses, I don't remember for sure if that's what I used.

 

[PRR 60]

The real value of the Passport Card is for those who essentially commute across the US/Canada border. There are people who literally make hundreds of crossings a year - who live in the US, and work in Canada or have sales routes in Canada or where the nearest supermarket is in Canada . For those in that kind of situation, carrying and showing a card is much easier than carrying a conventional passport every time they have to cross the border.

In states offering enhanced drivers licenses, the Passport Card is not that necessary. However, in border states that do not offer an enhanced drivers license, the Passport Card is likely pretty convenient.

 

[Hal]

I never bothered to get a Passport Card since I seldom cross a border while not in a plane, and even when I cross into Canada on ground I want to keep the option open to return by air in case of an emergency.

However, when I renewed my Global Entry, paid for by United Airlines, I got a Global Entry Card this time, which serves as a very nice federal government issued photo Id card, as a backup to the Real id Drivers License.

For crossing any borders though, I always use by Passport book.

Oddly enough the Global Entry Kiosks at present have no way of using the Global Entry Card and require a Passport book!

The previous incarnation of Global Entry in the form of INS Pass required the INS Pass Card and could not use the Passport book!

I was told the Global Entry card's only use was crossing back from Canada in a vehicle.

 

[Hal]

BCL you are absolutely right. If I did not travel abroad 5 or 6 times every year, I would probably not bother with Global Entry. but on the whole the so called background check for Global Entry is pretty non-intrusive, and was not a huge bother, and the fee was always paid by someone else - either American Express or United Airlines or someone like that. The guaranteed (almost 100%) TSA-Pre that comes with it kinda nice too. but again, someone who does not fly a 100,000 miles a year in 75 segments or more, will not find that all the useful.

OTOH, even the TSA-Pre line gets so long in Orlando sometimes that I revived my Clear account to bypass even that! but that is much pricier, but worth it when you fly 2 to 3 times a month through that airport.

Since my AMEX Plat card paid for it I got Global Entry. Knowing what I know now in hindsight I would have paid for it myself years ago before I got that AMEX card. And it is only $15 more than TSA Pre that comes with it. The most painfull part of getting the card was wading thru the online application.

 

[Hal]

The real value of the Passport Card is for those who essentially commute across the US/Canada border. There are people who literally make hundreds of crossings a year - who live in the US, and work in Canada or have sales routes in Canada or where the nearest supermarket is in Canada . For those in that kind of situation, carrying and showing a card is much easier than carrying a conventional passport every time they have to cross the border.

In states offering enhanced drivers licenses, the Passport Card is not that necessary. However, in border states that do not offer an enhanced drivers license, the Passport Card is likely pretty convenient.

And the Passport Card is not good for travel by air. It really is only of value for those US/Canada and US/Mexico frequent border crossing by land that you describe.

 

[jis]

AFAICT the Global Entry Card is usable at the NEXUS processing equipped facilities at the land border checkposts. So they are also not particularly useful on Amtrak border crossings as far as I can tell. But as I said, whenever I go abroad I have my Passport book, no matter how I go.

But the same biometric is used by the Global Entry Kiosks at many airports to bypass dealing with a CBP agent. The Global Entry biometric is used by the machine to authenticate and then print out an entry certificate with your photo on it, which you then present to the Customs agent at the exit point from the CBP facility. There is a separate line for Global Entry folks at the exit point which is a god sent. I would have missed many a connection at Newark without that separate queue which seldom has anyone on it, while the regular queue winds around the huge customs hall and gives you a headache just looking at it!

I agree about the experience of getting Global Entry. The card just sits in my wallet in its protective cover just in case I need it somewhere. The only place I have ever used it is at TSA-Pre checkposts.