Crew taking up lounge tables - What would you do?

[Bob Dylan]

Also a candidate are 1)San Antonio-purgatory 2)Beaumont-hell and if it ever gets there 3)NOL-a sort of heaven!

The conductors and OBS could be people of darkness after going through a transformation @ Mardi Gras when they board Sunset Ltd. #666 that runs from heaven to hell to purgatory! :lol:

 

[guest]

I just stumped upon this in Amtrak Operations Standards, and thought I would share (seemed appropriate) ...

Employees may use seating space in food service cars at their discretionwhen such cars are not serving passengers, as prescribed herein. It is the

responsibility of the Conductor to ensure that these guidelines are

followed.

All tables in the Dining Car are for the exclusive use of customers during

all meal periods. Crew members are never to occupy tables in the Dining

Car during meal periods. Crew members and crew members who are

deadheading in conjunction with work that plan to eat during meal

periods may order their meals “to go” and are to consume their meal at

one of the following locations:

• Crew Dorm Car

• Sleeping Car (employee room only)

• Crew Coach Seat

Employees must avoid occupying any seating space in food service cars

whenever practicable in the performance of their duties, when such cars

are open and providing service to passengers. If crew office or dormitory

car space is not available, employees are expected to use a vacant coach

seat with drop-down seat tray with which to perform administrative

functions associated with their responsibilities.

When it is absolutely necessary to use table space in food service cars

during their hours of operation, no more than one table may be used for

this purpose. Employees’ grips and outerwear may not be left on the table

or seats, but must be neatly stowed under the table, out of sight, if there is

no other secure place on the train to store these items. Employees must be

mindful of the fact that they are utilizing space intended for the use of

passengers, and must maintain proper decorum and a clean, organized

work surface at all times.

And...

All tables in the Dining Car are for the exclusive use of customersduring all meal periods. Crew members who wish to eat during meal

periods may order their meal “to go” and are to consume their meal at

one of the following locations:

o Crew Dorm Car

o Sleeping Car (employee room only)

o Crew Coach seat

On my last CZ East bound trip there were crew taking up one table lunch and dinner meal in dinning car. Paying passengers had to wait for tables. They gave last call for Lunch way before Burlington IA. The train arrives in Burlington just a little after 11:15AM and arrives in Chicago around 3:30PM. That is four hours to end of trip. People were turned away at lunch. I assume they were Coach passengers but not sure because they did not take reservations for lunch either day I was on the CZ. A long time to go if you missed lunch. I might add that they were out of many things on the menu for that last lunch. If everyone that wanted to eat lunch in the dinning car had of been able to they would of had slim pickings to choose from.

 

[Larry H.]

Obviously, if the crew is working, fine. This hanging out and socializing invariably happens with the worst employees anyway. I usually like to eat in my room anyway, so this would not be too much of an issue. But if they are providing poor service across the board, then the camera phone would be a godd way to help Amtrak clean house.

Bottom line, the crew should not be working in what is an area designed for use by "paying" passengers, whom after all are the reason the train is supposed to be running. This thing I agree can be a problem, especially on trains with limited lounge space. Another reason why all this furor to eliminate places for passengers to enjoy their trip over the years has gone sour, where do you go besides your seat! (I know its not a Plane, you need different amenities on a train). All of this including nearly every problem seen onboard or in operating equipment is due to lack of a management that is interested in promoting passenger business. Something like this would never take place on board a serious passenger train in the past, not run by the federal government. Health care anyone.. People are much more interested in preserving their jobs than serving the public.

 

[Larry H.]

Crew should NEVER work or rest in customer areas. If there is a policy, there has been a slow ignoring of the policy which has created a 'right to occupy' mentality.
The Superliners Sleepers for crew have plenty of rest and work space, go there. (I am unsure on the single level trains).

What annoys me even more is when the Dining Car crew barely makes a round in the seating area, then runs to the other end of the car to 'sit and chat' before being bothered to make another round.

While I tend to agree with you about the Superliners, where are the single-level Conductors supposed to work? On the Acela its nice because there's an office in the café, but on every other train he is going to need either a seat in the lounge car or a set of seats in one of the coaches.

I don't think anyone is particularly concerned about the crew sitting in one end seat of a coach, but taking over two thirds of the passengers lounge area is not the same and should not be allowed.

 

[Larry H.]

I have traveled just about every Amtrak route in the past few years, most often traveled on the Silver Service trains. As I have indicated on here before, I have found the service level and attitude on the Silvers to be just about the worst in the entire system. I don't know exactly why, but they just don't seem to care or even acknowledge that paying passengers are an integral part of the equation on the Silvers.

One there Union workers

Two their government workers

Does that explain it?

Passengers are an inconvenience that pays their salaries.

 

[Larry H.]

To give you an insider view to this policy. It's a double edged sword. The Conductor and Asst. Conductor need a place to do their work, a flat surface. With Bulletin Orders, Delay Reports, Manifests, tickets, etc. Most crews take up one table for the Cond. and A/C. OBS crews are not supposed to take up tables, that includes LSA's, dining car staff, coach attendants, etc. Second, most Cond. & A/C use tables in the lounge because it is a central location where they can be found if a problem occurs. Usually most problems occur in the lounge cars.
You'll find most crews are more than willing to accommodate. A major problem are passengers who take up a whole table with their laptop, paperwork, and/or newspapers and will not let passengers who purchase food to sit with them. Amtrak allows this to go on. If a Conductor tells a passenger they cannot take up a lounge table as a revenue seat and must allow others to sit and eat, and that passenger writes a letter, Amtrak will take the side of the passenger breaking who is being downright selfish.

As for taking pictures of these individuals/crew, you do not have that person's permission to take their picture. Just as you would not have permission to take another passengers picture without asking them first. Don't do this because the complaint will be thrown out.

And as for Amtrak employees being overpaid government/union workers, please do a days work in our shoes. Until you know what we do and what we have to know, this is an ignorant statement. Don't let the actions of a few paint the many in a negative light.

Somehow by the number of complaints it doesn't appear to be a "few" inconsiderate crew members? The point is, Union or no Union, Government or not operating the system, workers in a business that is "catering" to the public are expected to act as though they are. Of course we have all had many great attendants on trips. Sadly though for new riders or even old riders, the ones that are a problem and continue be so are the ones everyone remembers.

 

[Larry H.]

Maybe they should just prominently mark a couple of tables with a sign that says something to the effect: "Amtrak employees only" and then limit employees to those two tables. When the room gets really crowded and if those tables are empty, they can let pax sit there, with the expectation that they might have to relocate if work needs to be done there.

Perhaps you should reverse this and say put a sign on the tables saying "for use of paying passengers only". Now that would be how to run a real passenger business. The crew has a crew car or seat or room somewhere to kill time in if they have time to do that. The idea that what little space is available on many trains now days should also go to the workers is a sad commentary on what it means to "serve the public".

 

[Neil_M]

Maybe they should just prominently mark a couple of tables with a sign that says something to the effect: "Amtrak employees only" and then limit employees to those two tables. When the room gets really crowded and if those tables are empty, they can let pax sit there, with the expectation that they might have to relocate if work needs to be done there.

Perhaps you should reverse this and say put a sign on the tables saying "for use of paying passengers only". Now that would be how to run a real passenger business. The crew has a crew car or seat or room somewhere to kill time in if they have time to do that. The idea that what little space is available on many trains now days should also go to the workers is a sad commentary on what it means to "serve the public".

To put another slant on this, what would you do if you went into a restaurant or cafe and found several tables full of "resting" staff members?

If crew need a space to work they should have a dedicated space or if they have to use public seating, give it up for the passengers as soon as it is required.

The other down side is that if you have a group of railway workers together, then they tend to default to moaning about the job and/or other employees, hardly a positive advertisement for Amtrak.

 

[VentureForth]

That would be the cab car, as the trainset is pushing?
If so, one of the reasons is for the safety of our engineer. You have seen the size and number of carry-ons our passengers bring. Setting 50+ pound suitcases in front of the closed door means in the event of an emergency, the engineer is unable to exit the cab.

Passengers standing in front of that door are even more dangerous, with the potential of vocal distractions, music, children, or other noise. I have been in the cab with the engineer, and a group of passengers behind the door were so loud we were unable to hear the dispatcher on the radio. Safety? It must be our highest priority.

We have repeatedly asked for a retrofit of the Surfliner cab cars to enclose the area from the baggage stairwell to the end of the car, for the safety of the engineer, with no success.

(Additionally, when this area is not closed off, we often find passengers attempting to exit through the baggage area, leading to another bushel of issues.)

I cannot imagine any conductor asking you to exit the train for asking a question of this nature, unless your manner, demeanor, or actions gave the conductor cause to regard you as a potential security risk. I wasn't there, though.

Travel light!

~BJG

My problem on the Surfliner has not been the cafe tables, but the coach seating.Crew seems to reserve two to three 4 seat areas at the control end car.

Even when full of passengers they haven't given up these areas.

These seats are lightly used by crew as they are roaming the train doing their jobs pulling tickets etc.

I've been forced to stand watching 8-12 empty seats, when questioning this once at LAUS I was tossed off the train and threatened with arrest.

The Surfliner is the WORST!!! Sorry, BJG, but when I rode, the WHOLE cab car was empty in pusher mode and I couldn't get a seat in the open area. Had my bags with me, and the conductor kept telling me to sit, but wouldn't help me ask other riders to stop taking up two seats. I agree that crew safety is foremost important, but that was ridiculous. Metrolink (and every other system that uses Bombardier bi-levels) doesn't have this problem. So the problem really is inadequate equipment. Who in the heck would design a cab car that was unsafe from passenger interference??? Crazy.

 

[VentureForth]

I have traveled just about every Amtrak route in the past few years, most often traveled on the Silver Service trains. As I have indicated on here before, I have found the service level and attitude on the Silvers to be just about the worst in the entire system. I don't know exactly why, but they just don't seem to care or even acknowledge that paying passengers are an integral part of the equation on the Silvers.

One there Union workers

Two their government workers

Does that explain it?

Passengers are an inconvenience that pays their salaries.

Sorry Neil, but I gotta....

You took two swipes at spelling "they're" and they were both wrong. But your premise is excellent.

 

[AlanB]

To put another slant on this, what would you do if you went into a restaurant or cafe and found several tables full of "resting" staff members?If crew need a space to work they should have a dedicated space or if they have to use public seating, give it up for the passengers as soon as it is required.

First, I have gone into resturants and seen staff members resting at a table if it was particularly slow that night. Granted they usually aren't taking up several tables, generally one maybe two.

Second, a resturant often does have space to setup a special area. Space is at a premium on the train. The Superliner trains do have some crew space, but all other trains do not.

Third, your average resturant worker does an 8 hour shift and then goes home. Your average Amtrak worker is on duty from 6:00 till at least 11:00 PM.

Now I'm not suggesting that I totally condone the practice either, and in a cafe car the conductors should be sharing one table if there is no alternative, not taking up two. I've seen conductors do it, so I know that it can be done. It might be nice to spread out, but it's not nice when passengers are looking for seats.

And any sitting crew should be together a one other table, not multiple. And that crew should vacate said table if it is indeed the last table and there are still more passengers looking for a table, unless they are eating a meal because the cafe car is the only place for food service, ie. no dining car on the train.

 

[AlanB]

I have traveled just about every Amtrak route in the past few years, most often traveled on the Silver Service trains. As I have indicated on here before, I have found the service level and attitude on the Silvers to be just about the worst in the entire system. I don't know exactly why, but they just don't seem to care or even acknowledge that paying passengers are an integral part of the equation on the Silvers.

One there Union workers

Two their government workers

Does that explain it?

Passengers are an inconvenience that pays their salaries.

Sorry Neil, but I gotta....

You took two swipes at spelling "they're" and they were both wrong. But your premise is excellent.

Um, Neil didn't say that.

 

[Neil_M]

I have traveled just about every Amtrak route in the past few years, most often traveled on the Silver Service trains. As I have indicated on here before, I have found the service level and attitude on the Silvers to be just about the worst in the entire system. I don't know exactly why, but they just don't seem to care or even acknowledge that paying passengers are an integral part of the equation on the Silvers.

One there Union workers

Two their government workers

Does that explain it?

Passengers are an inconvenience that pays their salaries.

Sorry Neil, but I gotta....

You took two swipes at spelling "they're" and they were both wrong. But your premise is excellent.

Um, Neil didn't say that.

True......

 

[VentureForth]

Ooops. Sorry Neil. I meant Larry.

See? No good critique goes un-critiqued!

 

[VentureForth]

Last month, I took my boys on the Piedmont, and their nice new lounge car with vending machines and free coffee also had a crew rest area. It was empty. The conductor took the furthest 4-top table, and I think two other 4-tops were taken up by North Carolinia volunteers.