Cincy Owns a Railroad

[steamtrain6868]

The city owns a line from Cincy OH to Chattanoga TN...But no passengers please as per NS requests... Hey if we own it we should be able to ride it. The city collects 19 Million Dollers in rent a year enough to subsidize a amtrak train and a commuter train.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Dollars.

Uh, I think Gov. Kasich already poo-pooed the idea of subsidized passenger rail in Ohio....

 

[Oldsmoboi]

uhm, isn't the railroad subsidizing Cincinnati at this point? What's the problem if Amtrak wants to operation service on this line?

 

[the_traveler]

Because it is under 750 miles in length, it is mandated that the states involved subsidize the route for Amtrak to operate a train. Thus, because part of the route is in Ohio (even if only 100 feet - I know it's more), Ohio would have to also provide a subsidy!

 

[Sam31452]

Because it is under 750 miles in length, it is mandated that the states involved subsidize the route for Amtrak to operate a train. Thus, because part of the route is in Ohio (even if only 100 feet - I know it's more), Ohio would have to also provide a subsidy!

Man who invented that stupid law?

 

[Oldsmoboi]

Because it is under 750 miles in length, it is mandated that the states involved subsidize the route for Amtrak to operate a train. Thus, because part of the route is in Ohio (even if only 100 feet - I know it's more), Ohio would have to also provide a subsidy!

I know, we should instead build more highways.... those are subsidy free!

 

[the_traveler]

Because it is under 750 miles in length, it is mandated that the states involved subsidize the route for Amtrak to operate a train. Thus, because part of the route is in Ohio (even if only 100 feet - I know it's more), Ohio would have to also provide a subsidy!

Man who invented that stupid law?

Congress - who else?

 

[Gratt]

Can Ohio give $5 and that is it if TN and KY want to fund the rest?

Edit

Then again looking at this route I am finding it hard to justify it on its own. Maybe if it was part of some LD route but just the length the city owns... What kind demand would their be?

 

[steamtrain6868]

Commuter from Northern KY and what part of the Federal Code are we looking at? Can somebody do a Cornell law search and get back to us?

 

[GlobalistPotato]

From the sounds of the story, it looks like the city wants to SELL the railroad, because it's probably worth a lot of money.

Hey! Sell it to Amtrak!

It could be useful for introducing a Chi-Florida service.

Or Cincy sells the railroad and builds a streetcar instead.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

The Southern Railroad, before Amtrak and before it became Norfolk Southern, operated passenger trains on this, which I guess is the route they are talking about.

Trains like the New Royal Palm,Royal Palm and Ponce de Leon. They ran with through equipment from Buffalo, Cleveland,Detroit and Chicago, converging in Cincinnati. From Cincinnati they went through Lexington,Chattanooga, Atlanta,Macon Jacksonville and Miami. There was also a train called the Carolina Special but it cut across to Knoxville to Carolina points, bypassing Chattanooga.

Such trains were operated by the New York Central to and from the various points north of Cincinnati. Between Jacksonville and Miami they were Florida East Coast trains.

So far as I know there are still plenty of freight trains on this route every day. It is nicknamed the "old rat hole" because of so many tunnels. It is very scenic in parts.

The last survivor was the Royal Palm and it went out in 1969,I think.

 

[jphjaxfl]

The Western & Atlantic Railroad between Atlanta and Chattanooga is also owned by the State of Georgia but leased to CSX. The Cincinnati owned Railroad is the Cincinnati, New Orleans and Texas Pacific Railroad and was once known as The Queen & Crescent Route and had an upscale train from Cincinnati to New Orleans.

 

[MrFSS]

So far as I know there are still plenty of freight trains on this route every day. It is nicknamed the "old rat hole" because of so many tunnels. It is very scenic in parts.

Bill - I live about 2 miles from this line that runs south out of Cincinnati and goes to Lexington and Knoxville. There are probably 20-25 NS freights a day total in both directions.i

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Can Ohio give $5 and that is it if TN and KY want to fund the rest?

Edit

Then again looking at this route I am finding it hard to justify it on its own. Maybe if it was part of some LD route but just the length the city owns... What kind demand would their be?

I think it would have made a perfectly logical extension to the 3C Corridor that Kasich scrapped. You cold have operated it like the Lincoln Service/MORR with an extended stop in CIN and a change of train number and name.

 

[Sam31452]

Because it is under 750 miles in length, it is mandated that the states involved subsidize the route for Amtrak to operate a train. Thus, because part of the route is in Ohio (even if only 100 feet - I know it's more), Ohio would have to also provide a subsidy!

Man who invented that stupid law?

Congress - who else?

Sure, but I was asking for the person who came up with the idea.

 

[dlagrua]

We won't see new passenger service on any routes until Amtrak has a surplus of equipment that is not being used. Amtrak barely has enough equipment for their existing routes let alone dedidicating some to new routes or for expanding schedules.

 

[GlobalistPotato]

We won't see new passenger service on any routes until Amtrak has a surplus of equipment that is not being used. Amtrak barely has enough equipment for their existing routes let alone dedidicating some to new routes or for expanding schedules.

Well, DUH. Any plans for expanded service will have to wait until new equipment has arrive.

But once that happens, and there's funding available (and no crazy governors)...

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

The Western & Atlantic Railroad between Atlanta and Chattanooga is also owned by the State of Georgia but leased to CSX. The Cincinnati owned Railroad is the Cincinnati, New Orleans and Texas Pacific Railroad and was once known as The Queen & Crescent Route and had an upscale train from Cincinnati to New Orleans.

I am glad you mentioned that. The train was called the Queen and Crescent Limited. That because Cincinnati is the Queen City and New Orleans is the Crescent city. It was an upscale train and ran Cincinnati, Lexington, Chattanooga, Birmingham, Meridian and New Orleans. It had no connection whatsoever to the train we know today as the Crescent. Just a similarity in names. If you google queen and crescent you will see that phrase has many uses, not just the name of a long gone passenger train.

For some reason the Queen and Crescent Limited fell out of favour sooner than most passenger trains. I think its name had been removed from the timetable by the late 40's. It had a nameless remnant, no 43 and 44 which served as a multi stop local from Birmingham to Meridian in its last days. It served as a connection to the Birmingham Special. When my sister would go to the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa from Chattanooga sometimes she used the local sought of Birmingham. I actually saw this remnant of a once glorious train once.

Just two or three out of date coaches.

It is possible it lost some business in 1946 when the Louisville and Nashville railroad put the streamined diesel powered Humming Bird in operation between Cincinnati and New Orleans. But they only had one intermediate stop in common and that was Birmingham.

The Queen and Crescent may have had a diesel in its last days but it was never streamlined.

I do know the Southern timetable listed changes of trains in Chattanooga after the Queen and Crescent Limited was gone. Such as from the Ponce de Leon to the Birmingham Special and from the Royal Palm to the Pelican.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

So far as I know there are still plenty of freight trains on this route every day. It is nicknamed the "old rat hole" because of so many tunnels. It is very scenic in parts.

Bill - I live about 2 miles from this line that runs south out of Cincinnati and goes to Lexington and Knoxville. There are probably 20-25 NS freights a day total in both directions.i

Tom,of those trains you see, do you have any idea how many are going to Knoxville, Asheville etc and how many are going to Chattanooga, Atlanta, etc?

Looking at an old timetable it seems Oakdale,TN, is where the trains to Knoxville and the Carolinas switch away from the tracks going to Chattanooga, etc.

 

[MrFSS]

So far as I know there are still plenty of freight trains on this route every day. It is nicknamed the "old rat hole" because of so many tunnels. It is very scenic in parts.

Bill - I live about 2 miles from this line that runs south out of Cincinnati and goes to Lexington and Knoxville. There are probably 20-25 NS freights a day total in both directions.i

Tom,of those trains you see, do you have any idea how many are going to Knoxville, Asheville etc and how many are going to Chattanooga, Atlanta, etc?

Looking at an old timetable it seems Oakdale,TN, is where the trains to Knoxville and the Carolinas switch away from the tracks going to Chattanooga, etc.

I don't have any way of knowing, Bill. I'm only 70 miles south of Cincinnati. I have driven through the Oakdale area, but don't have a clue how many go where from there.

 

[Eric S]

Because it is under 750 miles in length, it is mandated that the states involved subsidize the route for Amtrak to operate a train. Thus, because part of the route is in Ohio (even if only 100 feet - I know it's more), Ohio would have to also provide a subsidy!

It wouldn't require EACH state to subsidize the train's operation. If one of the states wanted to cover the entire subsidy, that would be sufficient.

EDIT: There are a number of examples of trains operating in multiple states without each state providing a subsidy.