auto carriers

[amtrakmichigan]

In one of the last reports from Amtrak it was mentioned that new auto carriers for the Auto Train are needed. Not only needed, but the report made it sound like some of them were ready to fall apart in the middle of the track.

Besides having a totally enclosed car design, is there anything else that would keep Amtrak from purchasing or leasing newer auto carriers from some freight railroads to replace the worst of the worst auto carriers ?

 

[battalion51]

Well the only thing that's really stopping Amtrak from doing that is that they may be incompatible with the Auto Train ramps, and I don't think it would fit too well with Amtrak's "image." I don't think the carriers will fall apart in the middle of the ROW, but they aren't in the best shape ever. The new cars are needed, and will simplify the loading/unloading process since there will only be one type of car bought (all Vans).

 

[amtrakmichigan]

Auto carriers to hold all vans would make more sense now days, since more then 50% of the vehicles on the road now are SUV's. I can't remember where exactly I read about the auto carriers being in bad shape. But I do remember the article playing the subject up as being one of the most needed updates on the system because of them being in such poor condition.

 

[whs1325]

In a related matter... I was reading Richard Elgenson report on the Empire Builder 75th anniversary celebration on Trainweb.com and he mentions something about Amtrak ordering new auto carriers for the Auto Train. Here's what he says, "The board of directors has just approved a contract to purchase 80 new autorack cars for the Auto Train which runs from Lorton, Virginia (outside Washington D.C.) to Sanford, Florida near Orlando."

What's not made clear is whether or not this is a done deal or if it's all dependent on the budget for next year. Anybody know anything about this? BTW I'd highly recommend reading Richard's report about the Empire Builder 75th anniversary. There are many great pictures and interesting comments made by David Gunn.

The link for it is: http://www.trainweb.org/richard/75th_Anniv...re_Builder.html

 

[Miami Joe]

I think Tommy Farr is coming down next week, and I'll ask him about the carriers.

Miami Joe B)

 

[Guest]

I'd like to see the auto train type service expanded to other cities. You know, if the equipment should become available.

 

[battalion51]

The hard thing with Auto Train expansion is finding a market where there's a large concentration of people travelling to/from that region. For example, on an average day there are 400-500 people who travel between Florida and the Northeast. That's a considerable amount of traffic to move in a region. The only other candidate I really see for Auto Train service would be the Northeast-Chicago. I think if they set up the Auto Train station in West Philly and South Chicagoland that'd work well. But that's just an educated guess on my part, I don't have anything to back me up.

 

[amtrakmichigan]

The hard thing with Auto Train expansion is finding a market where there's a large concentration of people travelling to/from that region. For example, on an average day there are 400-500 people who travel between Florida and the Northeast. That's a considerable amount of traffic to move in a region. The only other candidate I really see for Auto Train service would be the Northeast-Chicago. I think if they set up the Auto Train station in West Philly and South Chicagoland that'd work well. But that's just an educated guess on my part, I don't have anything to back me up.

Actually Battalion51 what you said about service to the Chicago area would have happened years ago if it wasn't for the constant budget issues, Amtrak at one time even said so and was looking to expand the service there. An Auto train station in the Chicago area could serve many other major large urban areas that surround Chicago. Besides Chicago metro area, people would probably use this service that live in cities such as Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Detroit, Green Bay and the Twin Cities.

 

[battalion51]

I think it'd be more likely that people living north south or west of the station would use it, rather than east of it. Think about it, when you're trying to get somewhere you don't want to work against yourself. This is why the location of the Auto Train stations in Lorton and Sanford work because Lorton is in the right direction for most people when going to Florida and Sanford is in the direction for most people to the Northeast since most people are heading north anyway.

 

[capltd29]

I actually heard somewhere that there was talk of extending to Capital Limited to Lorton and adding auto carriers and having to build a terminal in Chicago, then they could close their superliner servicing facility in DC. All after equipment is available of course.

 

[Amfleet]

I think the Chicago-Florida market is a very big market Amtrak could tap into, both Auto Train wise and intercity (long-distance) wise. If the right route is choosen and the track along the route is brought up to passenger standards, then I think a lot of people would use it. On the Silver Service trains you will meet several poeple who have come form Chicago, but have had to transfer from either the Capitol Limited, Three Rivers, or Lake Shore Limted. One possible route could be as followed:

Chicago

Indianapolis

Louisville

Nashville

Chattanooga

Atlanta

Jacksonville

Orlando

Miami

 

[haolerider]

The other logical choice is Chicago to Florida direct. All you have to do is check license plates on I-75 south to see the Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Ontario & Ohio plates heading to FL. Just as I-95 carries people to East Florida, I-75 carries the traffic to West Florida. Even regular servivce without auto carriers would be a benefit to Amtrak.

 

[Amfleet]

One other thing to keep in mind is that the entire AT facility in Sanford would have to be doubled. Two, long, platfroms and two loading and unloading areas.

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

I think the Chicago-Florida market is a very big market Amtrak could tap into, both Auto Train wise and intercity (long-distance) wise. If the right route is choosen and the track along the route is brought up to passenger standards, then I think a lot of people would use it. On the Silver Service trains you will meet several poeple who have come form Chicago, but have had to transfer from either the Capitol Limited, Three Rivers, or Lake Shore Limted. One possible route could be as followed:
Chicago

Indianapolis

Louisville

Nashville

Chattanooga

Atlanta

Jacksonville

Orlando

Miami

That would be beautiful. But in my opinion, the train should at least go to Tampa being the Florida Gulf (West) Coast traditionally has been the destination of choice by most midwesterners! I am going on the traditions from the old railroads. That point aside, however, identifies the great point in this posting of the fact that much needed service directly from Florida to Atlanta is really "needed." It is ashame that one has to go way out of their way to travel to one of the largest (and most important) Southern cities if they choose to by train. If scheduled properly (and trains were ontime mostly, i.e. Sunset) with a switch of trains in Jacksonville, the capital cities of Tallahassee, Atlanta, Nashville, and Indianapolis could be connected. And in Kentucky's favor, Louisville is not really that far away from Frankfort. These capital cities if connected with Chicago to the north and Florida to the south, I feel if taking the necessary steps with linking this region together with train service would be a great benefit to Amtrak. At one time Chicago was directly connected with Florida, however, that last train before it was cut off, bypassed ATL. If we fly, we almost always have to go to or through ATL! We should have better options by train! Well I am rambling here. I guess it is evident that I, myself would frequently use that service if it were there!

The state of Georgia was at one time, to my understanding, going to initiate service from SAV to ATL (something similar to North Carolina's "Peidmont"). Does anyone have any knowledge of that or better yet an update? Maybe it was all rumor! :lol:

 

[battalion51]

Georgia is still trying to get SAV to ATL on line, but it's energies and resources at this point are directed toward Commuter service between Atlanta and Macon (I believe). I also think Georgia was looking more towards HSR service between ATL and SAV. But it's possible they'll do what the State of Washington did with starting service and then gradually improve the line. Of course all this is dependent on how well the State can deal with NS. NS is especially reluctant for any additional service on its line from Atlanta to JAX (via Macon-Tifton-Valdosta) because of the high priority intermodal that moves on that line. Any large amount of service could likely require the whole route to be double tracked.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Amtrak OBS Employee, as an Atlantan, I certainly agree with you on more serivce in ATL, such as being a stop en route between CHI and Florida.

One thing puzzles me though. You seem to be saying that in the "old railroads" there was more business to the west coast of FLA than to the East Coast.

As one who literally grew up with the "old railroads" in that era, actually, not so. Most trains from CHI, Detroit, etc headed straight down the FEC from JK to Miami, not as much service to the West Coast, Tampa or St. Pete or anywhere else. I still have the timetables from the late 40's, 50's,60's and up through Amtrak.

Now of course I do not know about ridership or demographic studies which may point to more people going to Tampa from the mid-west, that might be true, sure. All I know is that more equipment went to Miami.

 

[gswager]

I'm wondering how long it takes to take an auto train from Chicago to Florida?

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

For a short while there actually was an auto train from Louisville to Florida. It was in the mid 70's, I believe. It was part of the Floridian, at least some if its history. It went from Louisville rather than from Chicago, just as the East coast Auto train goes from Lorton, Va., rather than from NYC.

I suspect the schedule was about 30 hours, I can probably find it at home. It was not very successful because of serious track deteriation, resulting in a slow schedule compounded by frequent delays. I think there was a wreck or two.

 

[haolerider]

If Georgia can ever get it together with rail service, the logical route would be from Atlanta through Macon to Savannah & connecting to JAX. The Macon-Tifton-Valdosta would put you too far west, unless Tampa was the final destination. I know that the West coast of FL is popular with the mid-west market, but Atlantans want to go to Jacksonville, Orlando and Miami.

There is also a market from Atlanta to the Sea Island/Brunswick area, which would be great short-haul destination on the train.

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

Amtrak OBS Employee, as an Atlantan, I certainly agree with you on more serivce in ATL, such as being a stop en route between CHI and Florida.

One thing puzzles me though. You seem to be saying that in the "old railroads" there was more business to the west coast of FLA than to the East Coast.

As one who literally grew up with the "old railroads" in that era, actually, not so. Most trains from CHI, Detroit, etc headed straight down the FEC from JK to Miami, not as much service to the West Coast, Tampa or St. Pete or anywhere else. I still have the timetables from the late 40's, 50's,60's and up through Amtrak.

Now of course I do not know about ridership or demographic studies which may point to more people going to Tampa from the mid-west, that might be true, sure. All I know is that more equipment went to Miami.

You are exactly right in regard to the amount of trains and equipment ending up in MIA. I was more on the line with ridership, demographics, etc. To my understanding most midwesterners usually ended up to those west coast of Florida destinations. And I can only go on information obtained from station agents, retirees, family, etc. Nowdays I would say that would be true still, however, that may not be the case if the service were reinstated. When I lived in Georgia (just south of ATL), most of my family and friends (those who traveled alot that is and not necessarily by train) went to shorter distance destinations to the south such as Macon, Tifton, Savannah, Tallahassee, Jacksonville. And on occasion longer distances such as to Orlando, Tampa, and Miami.

You were there at that time! So I would imagine you might be able to obtain that information easier than I could. I was also making a point more to the fact that Tampa is currently shortchanged on Amtrak service. And with that city becoming a major cruise line port as it has, Amtrak would be able to benefit by tapping into that market which was in fact there at one time. I can't see how it wouldn't have been. You do make a perfectly valid point, however, as my grandfather told me some years ago (and I knew this already) that Florida train service was more catered to the Northeast markets, however, I have always know we had a viable Midwester market, too. And I find that to defintiely be true today in my opinion. I talk to mostly folks traveling to and from the Northeast these days, but I do encounter many who are traveling from the Midwest.

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

Georgia is still trying to get SAV to ATL on line, but it's energies and resources at this point are directed toward Commuter service between Atlanta and Macon (I believe). I also think Georgia was looking more towards HSR service between ATL and SAV. But it's possible they'll do what the State of Washington did with starting service and then gradually improve the line. Of course all this is dependent on how well the State can deal with NS. NS is especially reluctant for any additional service on its line from Atlanta to JAX (via Macon-Tifton-Valdosta) because of the high priority intermodal that moves on that line. Any large amount of service could likely require the whole route to be double tracked.

Yes my friend (and I know who you are BTW....LOL), that makes a lot of sense. I was aware of the deal with a commuter operation, but I am not sure as to the progress with that. I had heard about the SAV-ATL deal so long ago (almost 6years now), and hadn't heard anything since. I would really like to see the state of Georgia get its act together with rail service! And Florida, too!

Hope you're doing well. Haven't seen you up DLD way in a long time (of course "Super Train" doesn't help you) :lol:

 

[battalion51]

Nope, haven't been getting up that way too much because of the Super Train and my busy life. Until this week it was just my school life that dominated me. Well now I have a job at Muvico that'll take up some time, plus Marlins games. I'll still try to ride as much as I can (and my paycheck allows).

For the record OBS, I still have no clue who you are.

 

[engine999]

It seems like a better idea to have Amtrak service directly from ATL-JAX and ORL and continuing to tampa. Im not 100% positive, but is there anyway to connect with the tracks at the port of miaimi to the csx line in wpb? Also from what I can tell it seems that the line if served with maybe a long distance train from orl (like the fun train) or a commuter train from the air port would be a very valuable thing. With the multiple cruise departures it could be very profitable if advertised correctly. Maybe the rebirth of the Fun Train is comming. And, I think I know who AMTRAK OBS Employee is.

 

[battalion51]

It is possible yes to connect the FDOT tracks on the SX line to the Port of Miami. There are two ways to do it, both of which would require some construction and major upgrading. The harder way (from what I can tell) would be to switch over to the FEC in West Palm using the Northwood Connection just north of the WPB Station. The other way to do it would be to continue on the FDOT tracks as usual down to Hialeah. Make the station stop at Miami/Hialeah, back out, exit the yard at the south end of the yard at 79th Street, then install a new turnout at Iris connecting the FEC and CSX and head to the port that way. Now that line going to the Port is really run down, is probably dark (needs CTC), and would require many years and many dollars before it could ever see regualr passenger service. You would also need to construct your schedule so you don't block major grade crossings like Biscayne Blvd. during rush hour. What you'd probably have to do is set up shuttle service from Hialeah to the Port exclusively for Amtrak passengers rather than running the whole trainset down there, since the set would have to return to Hialeah, whereas a shuttle could probably be left at the Port overnight. Turning facilities would be needed at the port, or a cab car or two ponies :blink: on the train.

 

[jccollins]

Auto carriers to hold all vans would make more sense now days, since more then 50% of the vehicles on the road now are SUV's.

I know... those d*** oil-supporting TERRORISTS!

No one has mentioned the biggest potential market for an auto-train I know of: San Francisco to Los Angeles! It's about 14 hours on the coast route and would be a great overnight train. Leave each end at 5pm each night and arrive in the other city at 7am... it would be an instant success!