Amtrak's Marketing Pitch & Degenerating Food Service

[jebr]

I've had similar experiences with CBSA. Before the NEXUS card, I've always been pulled over for secondary. Since the NEXUS card I've been fine.

It does require going to (or near) the Canadian border to get. However, the interview itself is pretty easy. The CBP does most of the interview, and in my experience all the CBSA does is go over the rules of the card from their perspective. It's simple once you get to the border to do the interview, at least in my instance.

 

[tommylicious]

How many LD trains current don't have cooked to order Diner service and instead only the gas station microwave food, regardless if served in a diner car? How does this compare to a year or two ago?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

How many LD trains current don't have cooked to order Diner service and instead only the gas station microwave food, regardless if served in a diner car? How does this compare to a year or two ago?

City of New Orleans

Lake shore Limited

Cardinal

- silver star has cafe only-

 

[fillyjonk]

I will say, for me, the attraction of paying for a sleeper are primarily:

1. Privacy and at-least-marginally-more-quiet-chance-to-sleep

2. The opportunity to lie down.

"Free" (actually: part of the ticket cost) meals are kind of an extra. I usually get the steak and dinner and generally am not disappointed in it (but it's hard to get good beef here, surprisingly, so my bar may be low). I don't bother to make much for myself ever at breakfast so French toast is a treat....

The real reason I switched to sleeper nearly all the time? My last few trips in coach were unpleasant. I got next to someone who was overly "sharey" and who wanted to get my address (No, thank you). I also spent an overnight in a car with someone who snored like a jackhammer and it went straight through the earplugs I had in. I'm a bad sleeper at the best of times so with noise or crowds or not being able to recline I mostly DON'T sleep. I kind-of sleep in a sleeper compartment. And yes, it's worth that to me.

And as for "restaurant or even gas station food is even better than Amtrak diner food" - count yourselves lucky, you blessed souls, who live in such a wonderful land. We have one decent Italian place and one decent Tex-Mex place and everything else pretty much is crappy versions of chains (we have the worst IHOP I've ever been in) or greasy spoons. "Gas station food" is bags of chips and Slurpees, not panini, where I live.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

Anything from Wawa is better than anything in the Amtrak café car. (Actually, anything from Wawa is better than anything I could cook, too .)

I've been fine with everything (except that dreadful cheesecake mentioned above) in the dining car (Meteor and Crescent are the two trains I've been on with a dining car).

I wouldn't mind so much if they were honest. If Amtrak's marketing department simply said:

We are no longer interested in customer service, we only care about Congress, so we serve the cheapest garbage we can find at the highest prices we can get away with. We may or may not put the dining cars back, with decent menus, when the new ones come online. It depends how terrified we are of Congress at that point. We have taken away as many amenities as possible--free newspaper, paper timetable, bed made up with the blanket--and blamed it all (often incorrectly) on passengers not wanting those amenities. We have to grovel before Congress to get money and because we are afraid of Congress. We hope you, our passengers who take the train because you don't fly or drive, will realize that we have had to become basically a no-frills commuter service, and we thank you for paying more money and getting less for it.

If they said that, at least I could have some sympathy for any true problems Amtrak has. And if you think I am being overly harsh, an Amtrak employee (I will not say who in case Amtrak management trolls here) told me that Amtrak is no longer interested in customer service, and a lot of the good Amtrak veterans are leaving because they are disgusted.

 

[FormerOBS]

This is much too complex for Amtrak "chefs."

This kind of cheap shot at hundreds of Amtrak employees has no place on this or any other forum. :angry:

This reminds me of the old trash-talk that was promoted a few years ago about American products (such as automobiles) being so bad. The guy on the production line didn't design the thing. He didn't choose, or buy, the raw materials. He didn't make or purchase the tools. He had nothing to do with decisions regarding the packaging or the pricing. He took his orders from the people who did have control over these things, and he was held accountable if he didn't build the thing as he was instructed, on schedule. The really relevant decisions (and failures) were happening way above his pay grade.

Amtrak personnel have to do as their hierarchical "Superiors" say. Some of Amtrak's veteran chefs have outstanding talent and ability, which is being squandered.

Tom

 

[Carolina Special]

What I can't figure out is why on July 10 the Amtrak Twitter feed showed a picture of pancakes and sausage as a "perfect Sunday morning". What train is this supposed to be from? I can't find pancakes on the current breakfast menu of the LD trains I've looked at.

 

[Bob Dylan]

What I can't figure out is why on July 10 the Amtrak Twitter feed showed a picture of pancakes and sausage as a "perfect Sunday morning". What train is this supposed to be from? I can't find pancakes on the current breakfast menu of the LD trains I've looked at.

Acela FC or perhaps on Beech Grove, definitely not in the Diners on the current LD Trains!

 

[City of Miami]

We have to grovel before Congress to get money and because we are afraid of Congress.

and we thank you for paying more money and getting less for it.

an Amtrak employee (I will not say who in case Amtrak management trolls here) told me that Amtrak is no longer interested in customer service,

Is this any different from any other government agency....DOD, IRS, EPA whatever. They all go to Congress for funding. The difference is the priority Congress places on each applicant. It is no fault of Amtrak that it is very low priority.....that fault lies with US, the voters, the constituents of the funds appropriators.

Aren't we all paying more for getting less for everything all the time? This is the price we pay for the illusion of perpetual growth. Often it is called inflation.

The remark about customer service sounds like classic hearsay, i.e. meaningless, unless of course the source is an upper level decision-maker in the department.

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

French toast is now on most LD train menus but it does alternate from time to time with Pancakes. Pancakes were on the national menu prior to this latest menu published two or three months ago and I am willing to bet they may be back on the next menu change.

 

[tommylicious]

microwave pancakes stamped out by dirty hydraulic punch press in a lead paint facility in Guangdong province then placed in unrefrigerated shipping container on disreputable ocean vessel for 8 weeks before begrudgingly served to you by union server only after mandatory 3 hour break (one of several such (breaks) per day)?

French toast is now on most LD train menus but it does alternate from time to time with Pancakes. Pancakes were on the national menu prior to this latest menu published two or three months ago and I am willing to bet they may be back on the next menu change.

 

[keelhauled]

microwave pancakes stamped out by dirty hydraulic punch press in a lead paint facility in Guangdong province then placed in unrefrigerated shipping container on disreputable ocean vessel for 8 weeks before begrudgingly served to you by union server only after mandatory 3 hour break (one of several such (breaks) per day)?

French toast is now on most LD train menus but it does alternate from time to time with Pancakes. Pancakes were on the national menu prior to this latest menu published two or three months ago and I am willing to bet they may be back on the next menu change.

As it happens, I watched the diner crew pouring pancake batter onto the grill in the diner this spring. I had some. They were good. The server was friendly. I would do it again.

 

[tommylicious]

the way it should be! no diner lite!

microwave pancakes stamped out by dirty hydraulic punch press in a lead paint facility in Guangdong province then placed in unrefrigerated shipping container on disreputable ocean vessel for 8 weeks before begrudgingly served to you by union server only after mandatory 3 hour break (one of several such (breaks) per day)?

French toast is now on most LD train menus but it does alternate from time to time with Pancakes. Pancakes were on the national menu prior to this latest menu published two or three months ago and I am willing to bet they may be back on the next menu change.

As it happens, I watched the diner crew pouring pancake batter onto the grill in the diner this spring. I had some. They were good. The server was friendly. I would do it again.

 

[niemi24s]

microwave pancakes stamped out by dirty hydraulic punch press in a lead paint facility in Guangdong province then placed in unrefrigerated shipping container on disreputable ocean vessel for 8 weeks before begrudgingly served to you by union server only after mandatory 3 hour break (one of several such (breaks) per day)?

You bet! Those are the very best kind!! Just like mama-san used to make!!!

Please, carry on.

 

[JoeBas]

microwave pancakes stamped out by dirty hydraulic punch press in a lead paint facility in Guangdong province then placed in unrefrigerated shipping container on disreputable ocean vessel for 8 weeks before begrudgingly served to you by union server only after mandatory 3 hour break (one of several such (breaks) per day)?

You bet! Those are the very best kind!! Just like mama-san used to make!!!

Please, carry on.

Seems like he has that covered.

 

[MARC Rider]

"Better than airplane" food is, for us, a key leg of the whole reason to take a LD train in the first place vs flying.

Considering that the food available on domestic US airline routes consists of a bag of pretzels and a soft drink, I would say that whatever Amtrak serves us is "better than airline food."

 

[jis]

The standard food served on Amtrak Coach is nothing. OTOH many airlines serve substantial food in First Class domestic these days. Let us compare apples to apples. Just like Amtrak one can buy some random stuff in Coach for flights of sufficient length. OTOH in Amtrak Coach there isn't any complementary soft drinks or pretzel. This true even in Acela BC.

 

[B757Guy]

I think the problem comparing the airlines to Amtrak on food and quality thereof, is the simple fact, lousy food, while a bummer, is more acceptable on a 5 hour transcon, than it is on a long distance train ride, of longer than say 12 hours.

While I earn my paycheck from an airline, I would absolutely hate to see long distance passenger trains go away, but at the same time, between the time-keeping, on-board services and often times rude staff, Amtrak really needs to be blown up, and rebuilt from the top down. And yes, even my airline has the same issues, but again, the difference is time. People will tolerate a lousy or late flight of say 5 hours, but put someone on a train for 24+ hours with the same, and it becomes a different story for many.

 

[MARC Rider]

I think the problem comparing the airlines to Amtrak on food and quality thereof, is the simple fact, lousy food, while a bummer, is more acceptable on a 5 hour transcon, than it is on a long distance train ride, of longer than say 12 hours.

While I earn my paycheck from an airline, I would absolutely hate to see long distance passenger trains go away, but at the same time, between the time-keeping, on-board services and often times rude staff, Amtrak really needs to be blown up, and rebuilt from the top down. And yes, even my airline has the same issues, but again, the difference is time. People will tolerate a lousy or late flight of say 5 hours, but put someone on a train for 24+ hours with the same, and it becomes a different story for many.

Another thing to realize is that for airline passengers, there's really no point in having gourmet food:

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/05/the-evolution-of-airplane-food/371076/

The sense of taste is diminished in a pressurized cabin. Thus, the main advantage of airplane food is to ensure that you don't have to eat airport food. That's why I always booked meal flights PHL-ORD when I was in college, even though the meal was nothing to write home about.

The article I linked to does provide one of the main purposes for meal service on any mode of transport: It's a form of entertainment, even if it doesn't taste so good.

I don't know if the legacy airlines still show movies, but my last transcon flight was on Southwest, and their only free entertainment offerings are some TV networks (with far too many ads) and the flight tracker. Being distracted by a meal service might have helped pass the time.

Since Amtrak doesn't have to worry about pressurized cabins, it might make sense for them to do something about meals. But the high-end gourmet experience doesn't seem to be sustainable for them. Meal-time in the dining car, even if it's "fast-casual," is part of the experience for longer trips and is probably more necessary to sell the product than people think. Maybe they could also outsource gourmet dining on selected routes in addition to the basic meal service, It could give new meaning to the idea of "Iron Chef," it would be "Iron Horse Chef."

 

[bretton88]

I should note that airlines really have been putting a lot of effort into making their meals better over the last few years. While they aren't spectacular, they are quite a bit better than the microwave meals of the mid 90s. Then you fly a foreign airline and can feel really spoiled.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

We have to grovel before Congress to get money and because we are afraid of Congress.

and we thank you for paying more money and getting less for it.

an Amtrak employee (I will not say who in case Amtrak management trolls here) told me that Amtrak is no longer interested in customer service,

Is this any different from any other government agency....DOD, IRS, EPA whatever. They all go to Congress for funding. The difference is the priority Congress places on each applicant. It is no fault of Amtrak that it is very low priority.....that fault lies with US, the voters, the constituents of the funds appropriators.

Aren't we all paying more for getting less for everything all the time? This is the price we pay for the illusion of perpetual growth. Often it is called inflation.

The remark about customer service sounds like classic hearsay, i.e. meaningless, unless of course the source is an upper level decision-maker in the department.

City of Miami,

Those are all good and valid points that you make. I think my main complaint (which I perhaps did not convey very well) is that there is so much hypocrisy between Amtrak's marketing department and the actual product. If they do not provide first-class transportation (and I understand there are many reasons outside their control why they don't), they should not market it as if it were the best thing since sliced bread. (For example, they make a huge deal of serving 500 destinations. Considering that when I googled "How many towns in U.S."? it came up with about 19,000 "incorporated places," 500 is an insult to our transportation system, not something Amtrak should be proud of.)

 

[me_little_me]

City of Miami,

Those are all good and valid points that you make. I think my main complaint (which I perhaps did not convey very well) is that there is so much hypocrisy between Amtrak's marketing department and the actual product. If they do not provide first-class transportation (and I understand there are many reasons outside their control why they don't), they should not market it as if it were the best thing since sliced bread. (For example, they make a huge deal of serving 500 destinations. Considering that when I googled "How many towns in U.S."? it came up with about 19,000 "incorporated places," 500 is an insult to our transportation system, not something Amtrak should be proud of.)

Then again, comparing apples to apples (or is it androids to androids), how many U.S. destinations does Delta serve? I'd say that the Amtrak statement is reasonable - far more than some of the others.

 

[niemi24s]

Back in Post #10 of this thread I attempted to make a comparison between VIA Rail and Amtrak using what I thought were VIA Rail "buckets" to arrive at average fares. Since then, I've discovered what I believe to be VIA Rail's actual "bucket" system as outlined here: https://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/lecanadien/price_list_en.pdf?ga_pdf=compare-prices It's simply based on peak and off-peak travel seasons (two seasons) and the fare difference between the two is about 33% when fares (including taxes) for two adults in a cabin for two are compared for the same route as before (Hornepayne ON to Vancouver BC). Hornepayne was chosen as that route length differs from that of the Empire Builder by only 0.09%.

[My apologies for the previous errors, shown corrected by strikeouts, below]

Fares were then gleaned from the websites of both rail systems (with those for VIA converted to US$): VIA's peak and off-peak and Amtrak's high and low buckets for two adults in a Cabin For Two (VIA) and a Bedroom (Amtrak). The low, high and average fares for each and the number of meals served on each are:

• VIA Rail: Low = $3489; High = $4651; Average = $3094 $4070; 8 meals

• Amtrak: Low = $918; High = $2060; Average = $1489; 5 meals

VIA serves three more meals than Amtrak, so those two passengers could have a total of six more meals on VIA and the difference between the average fares amounts to $3904 $4070 - $1489 = $1605 $2581. Making the bold assumption the sleeper accommodations by themselves are somewhat equivalent in value we could further loosely conclude those 6 extra meals on VIA appear to have an average value of $1605 $2581 ÷ 6meals = $268 $430 each. And for those preferring a non-linear average, using the geometric mean for each rail systems yields $281 $435 per meal.

 

[Alexandria Nick]

We have to grovel before Congress to get money and because we are afraid of Congress.

and we thank you for paying more money and getting less for it.

an Amtrak employee (I will not say who in case Amtrak management trolls here) told me that Amtrak is no longer interested in customer service,

Is this any different from any other government agency....DOD, IRS, EPA whatever. They all go to Congress for funding. The difference is the priority Congress places on each applicant. It is no fault of Amtrak that it is very low priority.....that fault lies with US, the voters, the constituents of the funds appropriators.

Aren't we all paying more for getting less for everything all the time? This is the price we pay for the illusion of perpetual growth. Often it is called inflation.

The remark about customer service sounds like classic hearsay, i.e. meaningless, unless of course the source is an upper level decision-maker in the department.

City of Miami,

Those are all good and valid points that you make. I think my main complaint (which I perhaps did not convey very well) is that there is so much hypocrisy between Amtrak's marketing department and the actual product. If they do not provide first-class transportation (and I understand there are many reasons outside their control why they don't), they should not market it as if it were the best thing since sliced bread. (For example, they make a huge deal of serving 500 destinations. Considering that when I googled "How many towns in U.S."? it came up with about 19,000 "incorporated places," 500 is an insult to our transportation system, not something Amtrak should be proud of.)

But this also turns into a form of the shoreline paradox. Many of those towns are actually other places altogether.

Consider this: one of the largest towns in Pennsylvania with no trains of any kind is State College. Within five miles, close enough to be considered "in State College" to most anyone talking about State College, there are five other census designated places. Would a lone Amtrak station dropped in State College serve State College and not Lemont, PA? Back in the old days, Lemont was the closest PRR station and was where the State College station was functionally located as far as the PRR was concerned. They're more like neighborhood names than "towns." Lemont is on the otherside of 322 from State College and Houserville is on the other side of 322 from State College, but also on the other side of 26 from Lemont. So would this hypothetical station be for one CDP (or "town") or six CDPs? Do we have to have a station every other mile, because that's pretty much how fast you cycle through CDPs in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic.

 

[tricia]

Back in Post #10 of this thread I attempted to make a comparison between VIA Rail and Amtrak using what I thought were VIA Rail "buckets" to arrive at average fares. Since then, I've discovered what I believe to be VIA Rail's actual "bucket" system as outlined here: https://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/lecanadien/price_list_en.pdf?ga_pdf=compare-prices It's simply based on peak and off-peak travel seasons (two seasons) and the fare difference between the two is about 33% when fares (including taxes) for two adults in a cabin for two are compared for the same route as before (Hornepayne ON to Vancouver BC). Hornepayne was chosen as that route length differs from that of the Empire Builder by only 0.09%.

Fares were then gleaned from the websites of both rail systems (with those for VIA converted to US$): VIA's peak and off-peak and Amtrak's high and low buckets for two adults in a Cabin For Two (VIA) and a Bedroom (Amtrak). The low, high and (linear) average fares for each and the number of meals served on each are:

• VIA Rail: Low = $3489; High = $4651; Average = $3094; 8 meals

• Amtrak: Low = $918; High = $2060; Average = $1489; 5 meals

VIA serves three more meals than Amtrak, so those two passengers could have a total of six more meals on VIA and the difference between the average fares amounts to $3904 - $1489 = $1605. Making the bold assumption the sleeper accommodations by themselves are somewhat equivalent in value we could further loosely conclude those 6 extra meals on VIA appear to have an average (linear) value $1605 ÷ 6meals = $268 each. And for those preferring a non-linear average, using the geometric mean for each rail systems yields $281 per meal.

VIA Rail often sells very deeply discounted fares, especially in the winter. More so than Amtrak. Anyone shopping for bargains can easily beat the "low" fare you've cited, sometimes by as much as $1000 or more.

VIA Rail and Amtrak are so different both in their pricing structure and in what they offer, that it's difficult to boil fair comparisons down to two sets of three numbers.