Amtrak Privatization

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The other thing to note about the UK privatization experience is that when the TOCs and ROSCOEs were created together with the ill fated RailTrack, the amount of overall subsidy went up dramatically in initial investments to bring the system upto state of good repair. It is only after several years of this that things started to stabilize and the system was flooded with new equipment and refurbished equipment, which helped move things along. To apply anything of that experience in the US one should plan on a subsidy several times what is available now for a period of something like five years. These IP experiments are just fun and games. They will not eventually work in general, absent a much deeper commitment from the federal and state governments than what we see there.
 
The other thing to note about the UK privatization experience is that when the TOCs and ROSCOEs were created together with the ill fated RailTrack, the amount of overall subsidy went up dramatically in initial investments to bring the system upto state of good repair
Although you need to bear in mind that this was on the back of a prolonged period of austerity and underinvestment.

In the 1980s under Thatcher, the railways were at best tolerated and budgets were regularly cut back to the bone. BR operated with a heap of Modernisation Plan equipemnt from the 1960s, much of which was sub-par even when built and hadn't exactly impoved over time. For many years BR was paying for essential repairs by selling off real estate. Many of the new trains bought in this period such as the infamous Pacer railbuses were engineered to be as cheap as possible and had little positive to be said in their favor.

Then came the 1990s and John Major with this already crippled and weakened BR being prepared for privatization, which menat further drastic cut backs to make the different parts appear profitable at least on paper.

So the early years of the privatization period were aboutv trying to recover from 20 years if not more of under investemnt and unwise investment.

Major projects that are fnally going ahead now such as the GWML electrification were first planned in the 1960s and should really have been done then..
 
The prolonged period of austerity and under-investment applies equally to Amtrak. So one should expect to need a significant bump in subsidy for any attempts at privatization of Amtrak to succeed. In case of Amtrak it would be ti make up for 45 years of under-investment in Amtrak and before that lord knows how many years of under-investment by the private sector. So the amount as proportion should be significantly larger that what was thrwon at the British Rail system to support privatization. Is that going to happen? Unlikely for both the additional investment and privatization. People are just blowing smoke. The only two choices at present are shut it down or continue with the current setup substantially.
 
Comparing Amtrak with airlines and LD buses is an apple/orange situation. Airlines fly in airspace controlled by government employees using government owned equipment, between government owned and maintained terminals. Buses operate on government owned and maintained roads, between government owned terminals. Whereas Amtrak pays to operate on privately owned track, serving Amtrak owned stations between jointly owned and maintained terminals. If American culture accepted and supported rail transportation as a public service, then the track and facilities would be government owned on which freight and passenger companies would be allowed to operate for a fee. Freight and passenger trains would be expected to serve both profitable and non-profitable routes, with the government subsidizing the non-profitable routes as needed to provide a public service. Unfortunately this would require a complete reversal of how this country has historically viewed the railroad companies. This view was caused by the rail Robber Barons raping and pillaging the federal money trough throughout the latter half of the nineteenth century. Until Congress' and the public's views change, we are stuck with the Amtrak mess that Congress has created.
 
There is no privately owned passenger transportation system in the world. It ranges from fully government owned and operated to various forms of "public private partnership". (Actually, there isn't any fully private freight transportation either, but that's another matter.)

Transportation is a basic government function; something the ancient Romans knew, but not everyone in the US seems to know. Every time it's left in private hands, a mess results.
The less government is involved, the better (and the less taxpayers have to pay). You can say that about a lot of things other than transportation too.
 

I guess then we should abolish the US Army and Navy and outsource our military service to mercenaries. That worked really great during the 30 years war! Come to think of it, those private contractors really worked well in Iraq, didn't they?
 
The prolonged period of austerity and under-investment applies equally to Amtrak. So one should expect to need a significant bump in subsidy for any attempts at privatization of Amtrak to succeed. In case of Amtrak it would be ti make up for 45 years of under-investment in Amtrak and before that lord knows how many years of under-investment by the private sector. So the amount as proportion should be significantly larger that what was thrwon at the British Rail system to support privatization. Is that going to happen? Unlikely for both the additional investment and privatization. People are just blowing smoke. The only two choices at present are shut it down or continue with the current setup substantially.
In the USA, the tracks are largely owned by freight companies that are on the whole profitable.

In the UK freight is not as lucrative as in the US. For many years under BR, freight required a subsidy and despite severe pruning of the freight network (there are very many lines in the UK that have passenger trains but no freight at all today) and multiple reorganisations and price hikes, this didn't seem to improve. Many people predicted that freight by rail was in terminal decline and would sooner or later terminate altogether. Money was pretty much being haemmoraged no matter where you looked. In the run-up to privatisation the freight business was split into into several sectors which were sold off individually. The fast intermodal business serving the major seaports was bought out by a management consortium and formed Freightliner. It is doing quite well today (and has been sold on several times), but to be totally honest it has received quite a bit of government support in the form of improvements to terminals. The other freight sectors were all taken over by EWS, a company owned at that time by Wisconsin Central but since taken over by DB and rebranded as DB Schenker. They brought in some innovative practices and invested heavily in new equiupment and actually managed to grow back some of the traffic lost in previous years. However rail freight in the Uk is not inherently profitable as you just don't get the same sort of distances as in the US. Furthermore, the newtork is largely built up for passenger trains and freights often have to weave in and out as capacity allows which does not allow for competitive scheduling.

Since then some third party freight operators have also started running, often by cherry picking the most lucrative contracts without providing a coherent system. Freight growth has also been helped somewhat by the worsening of road congestion due to fewer funds being provided for highway building compared to the past, meaning that delivery times by road and also the reliability of road haulage has taken a hit giving the railroads some upthrust. For example a lot of supermarket supplies go by rail these days, as supermarkets cannot afford emtpy shelves and are prepared to pay the extra cost. This sector that was virtually non existent under BR and supermarked managers at the time evn laughed at the concept of putting stuff on a train. Even the major road transporation company, Eddie Stobart, is sending stuff by train these days.

But even so, all this is growth on the back of the passenger system and using infrastructure built for passengers. If these companies had to own and maintain the tracks by themselves, they probably couldn't survive. So maybe on paper the freight sector is paying its way while passenger trains are living off tax money, but in reality that is something of a distortion. There probably wouldn't be much of a rail system in the Uk at all without the government putting money in.

So what i wanted to say was that this isn't really the same as Amtrak. Amtrak uses freight railroad tracks and can continue to do so. Maybe the government would need to shell out money to raise the speed a bit here and add a station track there but that's no way the same order of magnituide as jumping in and taking over the entire system.
 
To get an effective passenger system with appropriate priorities for passenger trains, in effect the government will have to pretty much either build a separate infrastructure for passenger trains or take over significant parts of the freight network. We have had this discussion over and over and over again, and no one has figured out how you get a private company to do something that they do not need without having the additional stuff entirely paid for by someone else. And that happens to be a lot of money, like an order of magnitude more than what is typically budgeted for Amtrak.
 
In practice the tracks are being bought piecemeal from the "freight" railroads (they're only "freight" railroads due to management bad-attitude, as Florida East Coast just demonstrated) by governments, for passenger service.

I'm OK with this. The only bit that really ticks me off is that we already owned Conrail, it was wholly government-owned, and it was sold off at fire-sale prices -- socialize the losses, privatize the profits. That is unacceptable.
 
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The only bit that really ticks me off is that we already owned Conrail, it was wholly government-owned, and it was sold off at fire-sale prices -- socialize the losses, privatize the profits. That is unacceptable.
A Trump presidency is likely to take these lopsided giveaways to whole new level. Quite possibly to the point that we're competing with and even rivaling the Italian Mafia and Russian Oligarchy.
 
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