Amtrak Pacific Parlor Car vs. Via Rail Park Car

[jmbgeg]

Positive comments about Via Rail on AU prompted me to go to the Via Rail site to see what they offer. I see on the long distance trains they have a Park Car, which may be similar to a PPC.

http://www.viarail.ca/en/resources/stainless-steel-park-car

For those who have traveled both the CS and Via Rail, how does the Park Car compare? Are there any ideas Amtrak should garner from Via Rail's Park Car?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Positive comments about Via Rail on AU prompted me to go to the Via Rail site to see what they offer. I see on the long distance trains they have a Park Car, which may be similar to a PPC.
http://www.viarail.ca/en/resources/stainless-steel-park-car

For those who have traveled both the CS and Via Rail, how does the Park Car compare? Are there any ideas Amtrak should garner from Via Rail's Park Car?

Besides refurbishing whole sets of vintage 1950s Budd cars, not really. Amtrak ran cars like that, very similar in configuration, many years ago. Silver Horizon, Silver Penthouse, Silver Lookout, and I am blanking on the fourth cars name, but there was a fourth. Built by Budd for the California Zephyr. And there were other round-end observations that didn't have sleeping accommodations, or that didn't have domes, or both. They were generally always first class lounges due to their location on the train.

What it boils down to is that in their formation, Amtrak and VIA both made a choice. Amtrak made a choice to be a serious transportation provider. They ordered more spartan but high-capacity equipment. They cut service positions to the point of efficiency, and perhaps past that. They made them selves unbelievably cost efficient given the various restrictions placed on them. The cost of a cross country trip on Amtrak for two people is in the area of $600 at low bucket.

VIA chose to be a rail cruise, to maintain its standards of service from a by-gone era. The Windsor-Ottawa routes notwithstanding, VIA is a joke. It has about half a dozen long distance routes that generally go nowhere and get there slowly. They run tri-weekly, for the most part. I don't think VIA has a single daily overnight train. VIA is hilariously cost inefficient. A cross country trip on VIA will cost you about $2k for two people, and that is when you get a good deal off season, in section berths. And they lose more money than Amtrak does, per passenger.

The effect of this is that Amtrak, while being a punching bag politically, has managed to justify itself such that they operate 14 overnight trains, and about that many long distance day trains. All but 2 of them operate daily, and they are working on those. Amtrak exists with almost its entire original network intact. Actually, the only two notable losses are CHI-MIA, and NYP-KCS. Honorable mention to the stretch of track between OKC and Newton.

VIA, on the other hand, operates less than half of its original network.

 

[zephyr17]

Basically agree with all of Green Maned Lion's points, with the small caveat that Via really didn't make the rail cruise decision until about 1990 (also when the biggest single service contraction took place), some years after their formation in 1978. Up until then it was much like Amtrak (and a whole bunch cheaper. Before 1990, it was usually cheaper than Amtrak for equivalent distances).

But as to the cars, and I've ridden on both.

The Park car is round-end Budd short dome/obs. The short dome is widely considered to be the finest in sightseeing, with a great 360 degree view. It is also a round-end. classic obs, giving the train a clean, finished look. The car is staffed as a standard lounge car. Further, while the car has been mechanically modernized, the basic decor is original (they replaced the murals in the "Mural Lounge" with photo reproductions to save the original artwork). In most respects, it represents the penultimate moment of rail comfort in the "streamliner" era. And it is still running in the service is was purchased for and designed for by CP, first class lounge on the cross-country Canadian (despite the fact it is now running over CN, not CP).

The Pacific Parlour Car has only viewing to both sides, although with similar top wrapping as a Sightseer Lounge. The car is a Budd Hi-Level Lounge car built for Santa Fe's delux coach streamliner, the El Capitan. They were, in fact, the model for the Superliner Sightseer Lounge. The interior design is completely an Amtrak creation, at least the second since Amtrak's acquisition of the cars, that has nothing to do with the original decor and layout of the car as the "Top of the Cap" lounge" (upstairs) and "Katchina Coffee Shop" (downstairs where the movie theater is). The original was a Southwest Indian motif. Note the awful, standard Amtrak booths in the front end of the car. The car is likewise staffed as a lounge, although the last time I rode it, the lounge attendant was absent for extended periods (and not at meal times). So pretty much standard Amtrak "you take what you get" service. Sometimes great, sometimes awful, mostly mediocre.

The PPC is nice, and it is nice to have a sleeper only lounge (well, almost). However, in design, comfort, viewing it doesn't hold a candle to the Park car.

The lesson for Amtrak are:

1- that they should not have gotten rid of their fleet of Budd domes. Too late now.

2 - A first class lounge should be made available on the major LD trains. They actually have inadvertantly prepared for this, because they could use the CCCs for that, if not for much else.

3 - Improve staff professionalism.

Annoying nitpicking: A "Parlor Car" is first class seating for day trains. Acela First Class is the modern equivalent of parlor service. And the British spelling, "Parlour" of this inaccuracy is just plain affected. And yes, yes, I know almost no one knows that. But it isn't a parlor or a "parlour" car. It is a first class lounge.

 

[jmbgeg]

Positive comments about Via Rail on AU prompted me to go to the Via Rail site to see what they offer. I see on the long distance trains they have a Park Car, which may be similar to a PPC.
http://www.viarail.ca/en/resources/stainless-steel-park-car

For those who have traveled both the CS and Via Rail, how does the Park Car compare? Are there any ideas Amtrak should garner from Via Rail's Park Car?

Besides refurbishing whole sets of vintage 1950s Budd cars, not really. Amtrak ran cars like that, very similar in configuration, many years ago. Silver Horizon, Silver Penthouse, Silver Lookout, and I am blanking on the fourth cars name, but there was a fourth. Built by Budd for the California Zephyr. And there were other round-end observations that didn't have sleeping accommodations, or that didn't have domes, or both. They were generally always first class lounges due to their location on the train.

What it boils down to is that in their formation, Amtrak and VIA both made a choice. Amtrak made a choice to be a serious transportation provider. They ordered more spartan but high-capacity equipment. They cut service positions to the point of efficiency, and perhaps past that. They made them selves unbelievably cost efficient given the various restrictions placed on them. The cost of a cross country trip on Amtrak for two people is in the area of $600 at low bucket.

VIA chose to be a rail cruise, to maintain its standards of service from a by-gone era. The Windsor-Ottawa routes notwithstanding, VIA is a joke. It has about half a dozen long distance routes that generally go nowhere and get there slowly. They run tri-weekly, for the most part. I don't think VIA has a single daily overnight train. VIA is hilariously cost inefficient. A cross country trip on VIA will cost you about $2k for two people, and that is when you get a good deal off season, in section berths. And they lose more money than Amtrak does, per passenger.

The effect of this is that Amtrak, while being a punching bag politically, has managed to justify itself such that they operate 14 overnight trains, and about that many long distance day trains. All but 2 of them operate daily, and they are working on those. Amtrak exists with almost its entire original network intact. Actually, the only two notable losses are CHI-MIA, and NYP-KCS. Honorable mention to the stretch of track between OKC and Newton.

VIA, on the other hand, operates less than half of its original network.

Excellent analysis. I am a train traveler of only 3-4 years I lack the historical perspective that you and others bring to the table. I get the distinction between an efficient (cost and operations) transportation system and a rail cruise. That really helps me with some of my "if only" aspirations for the long distance Amtrak trains.

 

[Tim_Metra]

I am glad that Amtrak has maintained themselves as a "spartan" but cost effect mode of transportation. I do alot of work in Saudi Arabia and we in the US are going to be very glad that we maintained a passenger rail service when crude oil is $300 / barrel. The "crude" truth is that the Saudis are at peak oil. In ten years passenger rail travel is going to make a huge come back. The states that preserved their rail stations are going to be happy that they did. The states that did not will be "crying" for a "rail bailout".

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Basically agree with all of Green Maned Lion's points, with the small caveat that Via really didn't make the rail cruise decision until about 1990 (also when the biggest single service contraction took place), some years after their formation in 1978. Up until then it was much like Amtrak (and a whole bunch cheaper. Before 1990, it was usually cheaper than Amtrak for equivalent distances).
But as to the cars, and I've ridden on both.

The Park car is round-end Budd short dome/obs. The short dome is widely considered to be the finest in sightseeing, with a great 360 degree view. It is also a round-end. classic obs, giving the train a clean, finished look. The car is staffed as a standard lounge car. Further, while the car has been mechanically modernized, the basic decor is original (they replaced the murals in the "Mural Lounge" with photo reproductions to save the original artwork). In most respects, it represents the penultimate moment of rail comfort in the "streamliner" era. And it is still running in the service is was purchased for and designed for by CP, first class lounge on the cross-country Canadian (despite the fact it is now running over CN, not CP).

The Pacific Parlour Car has only viewing to both sides, although with similar top wrapping as a Sightseer Lounge. The car is a Budd Hi-Level Lounge car built for Santa Fe's delux coach streamliner, the El Capitan. They were, in fact, the model for the Superliner Sightseer Lounge. The interior design is completely an Amtrak creation, at least the second since Amtrak's acquisition of the cars, that has nothing to do with the original decor and layout of the car as the "Top of the Cap" lounge" (upstairs) and "Katchina Coffee Shop" (downstairs where the movie theater is). The original was a Southwest Indian motif. Note the awful, standard Amtrak booths in the front end of the car. The car is likewise staffed as a lounge, although the last time I rode it, the lounge attendant was absent for extended periods (and not at meal times). So pretty much standard Amtrak "you take what you get" service. Sometimes great, sometimes awful, mostly mediocre.

The PPC is nice, and it is nice to have a sleeper only lounge (well, almost). However, in design, comfort, viewing it doesn't hold a candle to the Park car.

The lesson for Amtrak are:

1- that they should not have gotten rid of their fleet of Budd domes. Too late now.

2 - A first class lounge should be made available on the major LD trains. They actually have inadvertantly prepared for this, because they could use the CCCs for that, if not for much else.

3 - Improve staff professionalism.

Annoying nitpicking: A "Parlor Car" is first class seating for day trains. Acela First Class is the modern equivalent of parlor service. And the British spelling, "Parlour" of this inaccuracy is just plain affected. And yes, yes, I know almost no one knows that. But it isn't a parlor or a "parlour" car. It is a first class lounge.

Zephyr17 you and I must have similar railfan backgrounds. I second the above with special note on the terminology issues in your last paragraph. Another usage which disturbs me is for people to call the sightseer lounge an observation car. I mean, I fully, fully understand that......but what I also understand is that the word already got gobbled up years ago by the heavyweight open platform.And a generation or two more recently for the tapered rear as on the Canadian.

One thing you gotta say about the name PPC though, it gets the alliteration award and that makes it easy to remember so maybe all is not lost.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Positive comments about Via Rail on AU prompted me to go to the Via Rail site to see what they offer. I see on the long distance trains they have a Park Car, which may be similar to a PPC.
http://www.viarail.ca/en/resources/stainless-steel-park-car

For those who have traveled both the CS and Via Rail, how does the Park Car compare? Are there any ideas Amtrak should garner from Via Rail's Park Car?

Besides refurbishing whole sets of vintage 1950s Budd cars, not really. Amtrak ran cars like that, very similar in configuration, many years ago. Silver Horizon, Silver Penthouse, Silver Lookout, and I am blanking on the fourth cars name, but there was a fourth. Built by Budd for the California Zephyr. And there were other round-end observations that didn't have sleeping accommodations, or that didn't have domes, or both. They were generally always first class lounges due to their location on the train.

Silver Solarium was the fourth and I fondly remember that car being a regular vistitor to Norman on the Lone Star in the late 70s. It is now thriving in private hands, back in her California Zephyr livery.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

The CCC when used as a full Lounge, as it was on my last 2 Texas Eagle trips where the Sightseer was gone, actually makes a decent Lounge if you do not mind "standard" windows. But if you plan to keep any in full Lounge service, I would tear out the booths on one end and put more "loungy" type seating and make the lower level into some kind of lounging area since the full kitchen would not be needed. Though that involves spending funds Amtrak could better use elsewhere.

 

[railiner]

Positive comments about Via Rail on AU prompted me to go to the Via Rail site to see what they offer. I see on the long distance trains they have a Park Car, which may be similar to a PPC.
http://www.viarail.ca/en/resources/stainless-steel-park-car

For those who have traveled both the CS and Via Rail, how does the Park Car compare? Are there any ideas Amtrak should garner from Via Rail's Park Car?

Besides refurbishing whole sets of vintage 1950s Budd cars, not really. Amtrak ran cars like that, very similar in configuration, many years ago. Silver Horizon, Silver Penthouse, Silver Lookout, and I am blanking on the fourth cars name, but there was a fourth. Built by Budd for the California Zephyr. And there were other round-end observations that didn't have sleeping accommodations, or that didn't have domes, or both. They were generally always first class lounges due to their location on the train.

Silver Solarium was the fourth and I fondly remember that car being a regular vistitor to Norman on the Lone Star in the late 70s. It is now thriving in private hands, back in her California Zephyr livery.

And the remaining three from the original CZ are the Silver Planet, Silver Crescent, and Silver Sky.

 

[NS VIA FAN]

The “Park Car” on the Canadian is the social hub of the train. A round-end observation + 360 deg view from the dome. There’s a complementary Champagne Reception upon departure along with hors d’oeuvres, wine tasting at other times and always snacks out on a counter to help yourself. On the other hand, once when riding the Pacific Parlour Car there was a charge for the Wine Tasting (fair ball) but what I found troubling.....even other sleeping cars passengers who were not participating, but just there to enjoy the view were asked (told) to leave and in no uncertain terms by the Attendant.....something you just wouldn’t find on VIA.

VIA chose to be a rail cruise, to maintain its standards of service from a by-gone era. The Windsor-Ottawa routes notwithstanding, VIA is a joke. It has about half a dozen long distance routes that generally go nowhere and get there slowly. They run tri-weekly, for the most part. I don't think VIA has a single daily overnight train. VIA is hilariously cost inefficient. A cross country trip on VIA will cost you about $2k for two people, and that is when you get a good deal off season, in section berths. And they lose more money than Amtrak does, per passenger.

For someone who has never been on VIA, you seam to know a lot but can’t even get the corridor route correct. It’s not Windsor-Ottawa but Windsor-Quebec City (nearly 275 miles further east)

Other than the “Canadian” which is a “Rail Cruise” VIA’s other trains provide basic transportation. Tell someone flagging down the Saguenay in northern Quebec or even the Canadian across northern Ontario they are boarding a Rail Cruise......this is their only link to the outside world......there are no roads in the area. The Ocean which operates six days a week (Ottawa dictates the schedule...not VIA) has a Rail Cruises option during the summer but other than that is actually used as basic transportation: a corridor route through the Maritimes then over-night to Montreal. Stand on the station platforms at Moncton, Bathurst or Campbellton any evening.....these are Not Japanese or European tourist boarding the train and they are filling 4 coaches and 5 or 6 sleepers!

Sleeper fares on the Canadian are expensive (which VIA has no problem selling when they can fill 20 to 30 car trains) and deals are available at different times. But most other fares are reasonable for the cost of providing a service across a county larger than the US but with 1/10 the population.

Sure Amtrak has several routes coast to coast but no need for that here (other than possibly the CP route from Winnipeg, through Banff to Vancouver) when the majority of the population is in a narrow band across the southern portion of the county (It’s nearly 6300 km from Halifax to Vancouver. Too bad the Newfie Bullet wasn't still operating.....you could go an additional 1500 km further east )

Amtrak exists with almost its entire original network intact. Actually, the only two notable losses are CHI-MIA, and NYP-KCS. Honorable mention to the stretch of track between OKC and Newton. VIA, on the other hand, operates less than half of its original network.

Yes, but.....when Amtrak was created in 1971, their route structure was cut in an instant to a fraction of what existed prior to the May 1 start-up. VIA on the other hand maintained most of the former CN and CP routes for a number of years before any significant cut-backs.

 

[goodnightjohnwayne]

Positive comments about Via Rail on AU prompted me to go to the Via Rail site to see what they offer. I see on the long distance trains they have a Park Car, which may be similar to a PPC.
http://www.viarail.ca/en/resources/stainless-steel-park-car

For those who have traveled both the CS and Via Rail, how does the Park Car compare? Are there any ideas Amtrak should garner from Via Rail's Park Car?

Besides refurbishing whole sets of vintage 1950s Budd cars, not really. Amtrak ran cars like that, very similar in configuration, many years ago. Silver Horizon, Silver Penthouse, Silver Lookout, and I am blanking on the fourth cars name, but there was a fourth. Built by Budd for the California Zephyr. And there were other round-end observations that didn't have sleeping accommodations, or that didn't have domes, or both. They were generally always first class lounges due to their location on the train.

What it boils down to is that in their formation, Amtrak and VIA both made a choice. Amtrak made a choice to be a serious transportation provider. They ordered more spartan but high-capacity equipment. They cut service positions to the point of efficiency, and perhaps past that. They made them selves unbelievably cost efficient given the various restrictions placed on them. The cost of a cross country trip on Amtrak for two people is in the area of $600 at low bucket.

VIA chose to be a rail cruise, to maintain its standards of service from a by-gone era. The Windsor-Ottawa routes notwithstanding, VIA is a joke. It has about half a dozen long distance routes that generally go nowhere and get there slowly. They run tri-weekly, for the most part. I don't think VIA has a single daily overnight train. VIA is hilariously cost inefficient. A cross country trip on VIA will cost you about $2k for two people, and that is when you get a good deal off season, in section berths. And they lose more money than Amtrak does, per passenger.

The effect of this is that Amtrak, while being a punching bag politically, has managed to justify itself such that they operate 14 overnight trains, and about that many long distance day trains. All but 2 of them operate daily, and they are working on those. Amtrak exists with almost its entire original network intact. Actually, the only two notable losses are CHI-MIA, and NYP-KCS. Honorable mention to the stretch of track between OKC and Newton.

VIA, on the other hand, operates less than half of its original network.

1. VIA Rail inherited a substantial fleet of Budd built equipment from the CP, including the Park cars. As it turned out, the CP had ordered the Park cars toward the end of the lightweight era, and retained them intact after many railroads had converted such cars with full end vestibules for midtrain use, or discarded their observation cars.

2. Amtrak inherited a number of round and square tailed observation cars, but the fleet was far from homogeneous, and many had been converted to coaches or coach/lounge cars. Many predecessor railroads had removed their round ended sleeper-lounge observation cars before the formation of Amtrak. The bottom line is that Amtrak didn't inherit a fleet of cars equivalent to VIA's ex-CP Park cars.

3. Many of VIA's remaining routes are invaluable transportation links to remote areas, although western trains such as the Skeena, and to a less extent, the current, truncated, Canadian have lost much of their transportation functionality. Actually, the post 1990 CN route of the current Canadian isn't especially scenic or very well situated, but they still manage to fill huge consists in the peak season. Go figure.

4. It seems likely in hindsight that if VIA funding hadn't been cut in 1990, VIA might have joined Amtrak's Superliner II order to replace a number of ex-CN cars, many of which were original purchased second hand from American railroads. In the end, the money wasn't there, and with the route cuts, there wasn't any need for new equipment either.

 

[Bob Dylan]

The CCC when used as a full Lounge, as it was on my last 2 Texas Eagle trips where the Sightseer was gone, actually makes a decent Lounge if you do not mind "standard" windows. But if you plan to keep any in full Lounge service, I would tear out the booths on one end and put more "loungy" type seating and make the lower level into some kind of lounging area since the full kitchen would not be needed. Though that involves spending funds Amtrak could better use elsewhere.

Yeah,now that fall/winter is coming the poor Eagle once again gets shorted on equipment! (of course the CONO got the same raw deal!) I really dislike the CCCs, most of the trains I have to ride to get out of Texas use them so perhaps Im biased, but you are correct that with a reworking they would make a fairly decent lounge! Still wish Amtrak could buy the old Santa Fe cars in Kansas from the previous post!!! (Imagine, all LD trains with a PPC like car!Yes!!!!!)

 

[railiner]

I recall that VIA 'borrowed' a few Superliner cars one winter to test on the Skeena. I don't remember more details, or the results of that test. It was in the early nineties, I believe.

 

[railiner]

With the PPC, Amtrak has redefined what a 'parlor car' is. Originally it was first class REVENUE seating on mainly day trains. Now it is first class non-revenue lounge seating.

 

[NS VIA FAN]

I recall that VIA 'borrowed' a few Superliner cars one winter to test on the Skeena. I don't remember more details, or the results of that test. It was in the early nineties, I believe.

It was the Panorama that operated with the leased Amtrak “Superliners” between Winnipeg and Edmonton from September to December 1, 1984 and January 1 to Easter 1985. Consist included an Amtrak F40 + Superliner Baggage/Coach, Coach, Diner and Sleeper.

 

[jis]

I am glad that Amtrak has maintained themselves as a "spartan" but cost effect mode of transportation. I do alot of work in Saudi Arabia and we in the US are going to be very glad that we maintained a passenger rail service when crude oil is $300 / barrel. The "crude" truth is that the Saudis are at peak oil. In ten years passenger rail travel is going to make a huge come back. The states that preserved their rail stations are going to be happy that they did. The states that did not will be "crying" for a "rail bailout".

And meanwhile Louisiana, from the looks of it, will probably work diligently to get rid of whatever little they have

 

[Bob Dylan]

I am glad that Amtrak has maintained themselves as a "spartan" but cost effect mode of transportation. I do alot of work in Saudi Arabia and we in the US are going to be very glad that we maintained a passenger rail service when crude oil is $300 / barrel. The "crude" truth is that the Saudis are at peak oil. In ten years passenger rail travel is going to make a huge come back. The states that preserved their rail stations are going to be happy that they did. The states that did not will be "crying" for a "rail bailout".

And meanwhile Louisiana, from the looks of it, will probably work diligently to get rid of whatever little they have

Considering the quality of the leadership in some cities and states,including my own, this is not surprising!We are fixing to lose our Senator that was a strong supporter of Amtrak,she saved the Eagle several times!Im happy DFW and Houston seem to be doing a good job with their metro systems,

Austin lags so much its unreal! (see "The Red Line", the little train that couldnt!) Hope we hear something soon about the the Sunset and the Eagle,but probably will not change until next springs schedule!Keep the heat on the guys in office, thats where the money and the power is!

 

[jmbgeg]

I am glad that Amtrak has maintained themselves as a "spartan" but cost effect mode of transportation. I do alot of work in Saudi Arabia and we in the US are going to be very glad that we maintained a passenger rail service when crude oil is $300 / barrel. The "crude" truth is that the Saudis are at peak oil. In ten years passenger rail travel is going to make a huge come back. The states that preserved their rail stations are going to be happy that they did. The states that did not will be "crying" for a "rail bailout".

And meanwhile Louisiana, from the looks of it, will probably work diligently to get rid of whatever little they have

Considering the quality of the leadership in some cities and states,including my own, this is not surprising!We are fixing to lose our Senator that was a strong supporter of Amtrak,she saved the Eagle several times!Im happy DFW and Houston seem to be doing a good job with their metro systems,

Austin lags so much its unreal! (see "The Red Line", the little train that couldnt!) Hope we hear something soon about the the Sunset and the Eagle,but probably will not change until next springs schedule!Keep the heat on the guys in office, thats where the money and the power is!

Since you raised politics, who do you think will follow Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson in office?

 

[zephyr17]

With the PPC, Amtrak has redefined what a 'parlor car' is. Originally it was first class REVENUE seating on mainly day trains. Now it is first class non-revenue lounge seating.

Had Amtrak invented the concept of a first class lounge car, they could call their new concept what they liked, and I might have agreed with you. They didn't. First class only lounge space has existed for a long time on many pre-Amtrak trains, the Empire Builder, the original CZ, the Lark following the addition of coaches, just to name a few.

Amtrak just took a nice old "railroady" sounding term and misused it. Whoever did it probably did not even know what it meant.

Misuse is not redefinition.

On the other hand, I can't think of a catchy marketing name for it, and the RRs came up with their own catchy names for their unique signature services, like Great Northern Empire Builder's "Great Dome" or CP's "SCENIC DOME" (the Park car) and/or simple noted something like "Buffet-Lounge-Obs (Pullman Passengers Only)" in public timetables. "Pacific Parlour Car" does work as a marketing name, I acknowledge that. It doesn't keep it from grating on me, though.

PS - Bill, calling the Sightseer an "Observation" car or a "Dome" car grates on me, too. But I think I've only heard that in news reports or comments by other passengers (I don't play the annoying railfan and correct them, though). I don't think Amtrak uses those terms officially in their marketing material, though, which is what annoys me about the PPC.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I am glad that Amtrak has maintained themselves as a "spartan" but cost effect mode of transportation. I do alot of work in Saudi Arabia and we in the US are going to be very glad that we maintained a passenger rail service when crude oil is $300 / barrel. The "crude" truth is that the Saudis are at peak oil. In ten years passenger rail travel is going to make a huge come back. The states that preserved their rail stations are going to be happy that they did. The states that did not will be "crying" for a "rail bailout".

And meanwhile Louisiana, from the looks of it, will probably work diligently to get rid of whatever little they have

Considering the quality of the leadership in some cities and states,including my own, this is not surprising!We are fixing to lose our Senator that was a strong supporter of Amtrak,she saved the Eagle several times!Im happy DFW and Houston seem to be doing a good job with their metro systems,

Austin lags so much its unreal! (see "The Red Line", the little train that couldnt!) Hope we hear something soon about the the Sunset and the Eagle,but probably will not change until next springs schedule!Keep the heat on the guys in office, thats where the money and the power is!

Since you raised politics, who do you think will follow Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson in office?

Dont really know, shes supposed to resign sometime this fall. lots of people want the job, just like in Mass! Our Governor would appoint a temporary Senator, then there would be a Special Election when he called it, open to all comers! I just hope someone with some common sense and not a kooky, far out birther/no-nothing turn back the clock to 1950 type wins!It will probably be a republican, a democrat hasnt carried Texas since the late Ann Richards! This is not so much political as a remionder that the government is behind all transportation matters, rail and otherwise since thats where the money is! I just hope a reasonable supporter of Amtrak and rail wins, not a highway and airplane are the only way type!

 

[zephyr17]

I recall that VIA 'borrowed' a few Superliner cars one winter to test on the Skeena. I don't remember more details, or the results of that test. It was in the early nineties, I believe.

Late '80s shortly before the big 1990 contraction. They were determining whether to re-equip their long distance services with Superliners, or rebuild their Budd fleet. They decided on the latter, obviously. The decision was primarily based on cost, IIRC, but passenger reaction counted some, too. The rebuild was cheaper, and they thought the service life would be equivalent. They could get away with the rebuild if they got rid of the less corrosion-resistant ex-CN CCF "Blue" fleet, which they largely did in the contraction.

 

[AlanB]

Since you raised politics, who do you think will follow Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson in office?

Dont really know, shes supposed to resign sometime this fall. lots of people want the job, just like in Mass! Our Governor would appoint a temporary Senator, then there would be a Special Election when he called it, open to all comers! I just hope someone with some common sense and not a kooky, far out birther/no-nothing turn back the clock to 1950 type wins!It will probably be a republican, a democrat hasnt carried Texas since the late Ann Richards! This is not so much political as a remionder that the government is behind all transportation matters, rail and otherwise since thats where the money is! I just hope a reasonable supporter of Amtrak and rail wins, not a highway and airplane are the only way type!

Why is Kay resigning?

 

[railiner]

I recall that VIA 'borrowed' a few Superliner cars one winter to test on the Skeena. I don't remember more details, or the results of that test. It was in the early nineties, I believe.

It was the Panorama that operated with the leased Amtrak “Superliners” between Winnipeg and Edmonton from September to December 1, 1984 and January 1 to Easter 1985. Consist included an Amtrak F40 + Superliner Baggage/Coach, Coach, Diner and Sleeper.

Okay, thanks for that correction. I knew it was on some train out of Edmonton, and I forgot about the Panorama.

 

[jmbgeg]

Since you raised politics, who do you think will follow Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson in office?

Dont really know, shes supposed to resign sometime this fall. lots of people want the job, just like in Mass! Our Governor would appoint a temporary Senator, then there would be a Special Election when he called it, open to all comers! I just hope someone with some common sense and not a kooky, far out birther/no-nothing turn back the clock to 1950 type wins!It will probably be a republican, a democrat hasnt carried Texas since the late Ann Richards! This is not so much political as a remionder that the government is behind all transportation matters, rail and otherwise since thats where the money is! I just hope a reasonable supporter of Amtrak and rail wins, not a highway and airplane are the only way type!

Why is Kay resigning?

I don't think she is resigning, but just not running for reelection. I believe she plans to run for Texas Governor.

Edit: http://texans.forkay.com/

 

[Bob Dylan]

Since you raised politics, who do you think will follow Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson in office?

Dont really know, shes supposed to resign sometime this fall. lots of people want the job, just like in Mass! Our Governor would appoint a temporary Senator, then there would be a Special Election when he called it, open to all comers! I just hope someone with some common sense and not a kooky, far out birther/no-nothing turn back the clock to 1950 type wins!It will probably be a republican, a democrat hasnt carried Texas since the late Ann Richards! This is not so much political as a remionder that the government is behind all transportation matters, rail and otherwise since thats where the money is! I just hope a reasonable supporter of Amtrak and rail wins, not a highway and airplane are the only way type!

Why is Kay resigning?

I don't think she is resigning, but just not running for reelection. I believe she plans to run for Texas Governor.

Edit: http://texans.forkay.com/

No, she has announced she will resign sometime this fall, and IS running for governor against the incumbent Rick Perry in a blood bath primary next spring, no-one knows why she is resigning,she doesnt have to, I think it has to do with campaign finance law, in Texas you can raise and spend all the money you want on campaigns, federal officers like Senators are limited! Its going to be a very expensive election season!I hope she wins, our governor has served 10 years, already the longest serving in our history (he suceeded a guy name Bush who used to be the gov)! Time for a new,fresh approach to governing this huge,growing, confused state! Maybe she could help us get more trains and MAKE CapMetro get the Red Line running! :lol: