Amtrak connections to local rail transit - Is Chicago the worst?

[VentureForth]

Yaaaargh. Smallest major city Amtrak Station, World's busiest airport.

As far as BEST connections to local RAIL - you can't be Dallas with access to DART and the TRE as cross-platform connections. It's about as easy as it gets. You don't even have to go up and down escalators and elevators. You can literally cross the tracks (at designated points, ahem) on their low level platforms.

 

[Joe F]

The renovated St. Paul Union Depot, which is now Amtrak's stop for the Minneapolis/St. Paul area, is also a stop on the new Metro Transit light rail "Green Line." However, instead of going directly into the station concourse, the LRT trains run on the street in front of the depot. It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than the old Midway Station which had no bus or light rail connections at all.

The Green Line runs from downtown St. Paul to downtown Minneapolis. It also connects with the Blue Line, which runs from downtown Minneapolis to MSP airport and the Mall of America.

 

[PaulM]

You do have to take steps to and from the Clinton station in Chicago. But saying Chicago has the worst connections to rail transit fits the stereotype Midwesterners have of Easterners as being very provincial.

Aside from the Blue and Brown lines you mentioned, there are quite a few Metra lines right alongside Amtrak platforms, more at Ogilvie a block a way, and still more at LaSalle Street easily walkable.

 

[jis]

I think the fact that the connection from Chicago Union Station to the Chicago El system is not exactly well planned or convenient has very little to do with whether such is observed by an easterner, midwesterner or a Russian. It is just the way it is. The fact that there is connectivity to all sorts of commuter service is a bit of a red herring IMHO. But I guess everyone to whatever turns them on.

 

[neroden]

Until recently when the Green Line opened, Minneapolis had no connection at all.

Really bad misconnects which still exist:

- Charlotte (no connection) -- probably the worst, with 5 Amtrak departures/day

- Cleveland (the Waterfront Line does not run when Amtrak arrives or departs) -- other candidate for the worst, with 4 Amtrak departures/day

- Jacksonville (no connection) -- again, 4 Amtrak departures/day. The urban rail barely qualifies as transportation though.

- Detroit (no connection) -- 6 Amtrak departures/day. The urban rail barely qualifies as transportation though, and the new streetcar will connect.

- South Bend (no connection) -- but you can sort of connect further west if you need to, so...

- Houston (no connection)

- Atlanta (no connection)

- Cincinnati (will be no connection when the streetcar opens)

- Miami (no connection, though they're building one which should open sometime soon)

- Salt Lake City (most lines not running when Amtrak arrives or departs)

- Pittsburgh (no connection, though it's a short walk)

(I'm obviously not counting cities which lack Amtrak or which lack urban rail. Reference used to find all urban rail in the US: http://www.urbanrail.net/am/america.htm )

 

[neroden]

would it be too much of an expense to make the Clinton stop an "accessible station?"

Chicago is planning to make EVERY L stop accessible eventually -- they are aiming for 100%. Clinton Blue Line is fairly low on the priority list, but they'll get to it eventually.

While they're at it, if they could put in an elevator at the Quincy L stop on the Loop, that would help people arriving by Amtrak to ride to the North, West, and South Side.

This one is funded and on the schedule! (A few years from now.)

 

[afigg]

Really bad misconnects which still exist:

- Charlotte (no connection) -- probably the worst, with 5 Amtrak departures/day

- Cleveland (the Waterfront Line does not run when Amtrak arrives or departs) -- other candidate for the worst, with 4 Amtrak departures/day

...

- Atlanta (no connection)

..

- Miami (no connection, though they're building one which should open sometime soon)

The poor connection at Cleveland is thus a temporal issue, not the lack of a walkable physical one. Since Cleveland is not NYC or Chicago (or Philly), unlikely that the rail transit system or parts of it are going to run all night. It is an argument for daytime corridor service to Cleveland, but that is a different topic.

The connection to local transit in Miami is going to be addressed, so we should look at the positive side and note that 3 major US cities - St. Paul, Denver, Miami - have or will see major improvements in local rail transit connections this year or in 2 years when the Denver RTD Regional rail system starts up.

Looking at a (too short) list of heavy rail rapid transit systems in the continental US, there are Amtrak stations with either walkable or via other local rail transit connections to almost all of them.

The Baltimore Metro/Green line may not run pass Baltimore Penn Station, but the light rail line does connect (albeit not all that well). If Baltimore ever gets around to building the proposed N-S yellow line (someday after the Red line LRT is done) from downtown to Penn Station to Towson, then Baltimore will have a decent rail transit system to directly connect to. PATCO is accessible through SEPTA from 30th St, so that counts. Staten Island Railroad is not directly connected to Amtrak, but it is accessible via NYCT and the ferry and is part of the NYCT system, so it counts in some way.

Once the new Miami Central Station opens, the only heavy rail rapid transit system of note in the US that won't have a walkable or via local light rail transit connection to Amtrak at least 1 station will be MARTA in Atlanta. With the proposed new station site not near a MARTA stop. that is not likely to change for many years.

 

[neroden]

The poor connection at Cleveland is thus a temporal issue, not the lack of a walkable physical one. Since Cleveland is not NYC or Chicago (or Philly), unlikely that the rail transit system or parts of it are going to run all night.

Minneapolis is going to run the Green Line all night (though at low frequencies).
There is no reason that Cleveland shouldn't run to connect to the Amtrak trains. Well, OK, the fact that Amtrak routinely arrives hours off of schedule is a reason. But if Amtrak were running on time, it would make sense to run a few late-night runs. (Unlike Salt Lake, the existing Amtrak trains carry a lot of Cleveland passengers.) And yes, Amtrak should run on time. :grrr:

Anyway, Charlotte is obviously the most glaring gap: with 5 Amtrak departures per day, it manages to have no connection whatsoever to Charlotte's long, highly successful, and expanding light rail line. Admittedly, this is due to various plans falling through.

Atlanta is a pretty glaring gap as well, but it also has a desultory level of Amtrak service -- it seems that one-each-way isn't generally enough to make planners think about Amtrak -- and this is even more true of Houston and Cincy, with their less-than-daily service.

 

[Ispolkom]

Until recently when the Green Line opened, Minneapolis had no connection at all.

Well, of course, because Amtrak hasn't stopped in Minneapolis for more than 25 years.

Minneapolis is going to run the Green Line all night (though at low frequencies).

Thank goodness, Minneapolis has nothing to do with the Green Line. They're too busy wasting hundreds of millions on a football stadium for a lousy team. The slightly more competent Metropolitan Council runs Metro Transit.

Chicago had a pretty good transfer to the CTA's Garfield Elevated Line until the late 50s, when the Eisenhower Expressway project moved what is now the blue line south.

 

[railiner]

In the days before Amtrak, the CTA Loop had a stop connected to the old LaSalle Street Station, used by the NYC, NKP, and CRI&P....in fact they used to brag about that advantage over the other 'rival' railroad terminal's in Chicago.....

Since the RTA has since moved that now commuter only station away from the Loop, it no longer enjoys that easy connection....

 

[bus nut]

The only one that's worse is my native Baltimore, and even they have a light rail stop (even if it doesn't go anywhere) at Penn Station.

Well, it goes into downtown Baltimore. And you can easily transfer to the rest of the system. The chief problem with the Baltimore/Penn Station light rail is the infrequency of the service (30 minute or more headways even during weekday rush hour).

Philadelphia, you have to go outside, and I don't know if they have an elevator or escalator.

There is an elevator at the 30th Street subway station, at least to the Blue Line platform. (The Green Line is not "accessible" at all)

To your main point, Amtrak-to-light rail in Seattle is an unfriendly connection, especially for first-time visitors. (Contrast that with PDX, where the light rail is directly across the street.)

Isn't there a new rail line being built that starts right at King St Station? I was in Seattle several months ago and it looked like they were building a new streetcar line but also looked like they were going to have a major line right at King St soon? The reno'd station is beautiful and it looks like King County Metro's HQ is right next door so it would just be crazy if they didn't turn it into a hub.

What I found out, btw, is that you can easily walk from the Amtrak to Pioneer Sq and from Pioneer Sq it's not a bad walk to Pike St. For everything else, underground bus station. Though they had to cut service ((

 

[afigg]

Atlanta is a pretty glaring gap as well, but it also has a desultory level of Amtrak service -- it seems that one-each-way isn't generally enough to make planners think about Amtrak -- and this is even more true of Houston and Cincy, with their less-than-daily service.

True. With 1 train a day, there is little incentive for the Atlanta planners to spend much money or effort to have an Amtrak station close to a MARTA stop. Miami is building MCS because of TriRail with 2 trains a day Amtrak service getting the benefit from it. The Twin Cities have plans for corridor and commuter services connecting to their light rail system, so Amtrak gets the benefit of a restored station.
Regardless, the overall state of Amtrak's connections to decent local rail transit systems is much improved compared to 20, 30, 40 years ago.

 

[Ryan]

I'm not sure I agree with that. I've waved off on trips down there to see Amy's family because it's too much of a pain to do anything once I arrive at the train station and the flights were too expensive.

Even with "only" one train a day, local connectivity is important.

(Although with her family just outside of town, proximity to a rental car is even more important - hopefully they can make that happen)

 

[neroden]

Isn't there a new rail line being built that starts right at King St Station?

Ridiculously, the streetcar being built in Seattle will run right past King St. Station (Sounder/Amtrak) and International District Station (Link) and will have stops at neither. They really seem to be trying to prevent easy transfers.
On top of that, Amtrak and Sounder are physically in the same station, but Seattle has somehow managed to disconnect them and make it a roundabout walk with multiple grade crossings. Riiiight. I actually don't know how they managed to make such a mess, and it really shouldn't be hard to straighten out if someone cared.

 

[neroden]

(Although with her family just outside of town, proximity to a rental car is even more important - hopefully they can make that happen)

Rental car access at stations has been a huge issue for me repeatedly. Unfortunately, it's consistently bad everywhere, but some are much better than others. Every major station should have rental car access; I'm not sure what it'll take to get that.

 

[D T Nelson]

Isn't there a new rail line being built that starts right at King St Station?

Ridiculously, the streetcar being built in Seattle will run right past King St. Station (Sounder/Amtrak) and International District Station (Link) and will have stops at neither. They really seem to be trying to prevent easy transfers.
On top of that, Amtrak and Sounder are physically in the same station, but Seattle has somehow managed to disconnect them and make it a roundabout walk with multiple grade crossings. Riiiight. I actually don't know how they managed to make such a mess, and it really shouldn't be hard to straighten out if someone cared.

Yes, it is ridiculous that the First Hill Streetcar line will go past King Street Station and ID/Chinatown Station and not stop at either. It should stop right at the curb in front of both. (Of course, this line is not being built for transportation purposes, it is a political payoff.) There will be a stop one block east of ID/Chinatown, two blocks east of King Street Station. There will also be a stop three blocks west of King Street Station. Here is a map: http://www.seattlestreetcar.org/images/project_area_map_lg.gif

Regarding Amtrak and Sounder not being connected at King Street Station, I suspect very few people transfer between Amtrak and Sounder. The Sounder to ID/Chinatown or Amtrak to ID/Chinatown connection is more common, I think. Sounder is a commuter line for people getting to and from work in the city; the passengers don't wait for the train in the station and the platforms exit directly to the sidewalk. To connect the Sounder platforms to the station would require a bridge taller than it is long, or a tunnel that would be below sea level, and neither is going to bubble up to the top of Sound Transit's budget. Unless you wanted to let people walk across the tracks between the station building and the Sounder platforms, and I don't think our governmental agencies do.

 

[John Bredin]

would it be too much of an expense to make the Clinton stop an "accessible station?"

Chicago is planning to make EVERY L stop accessible eventually -- they are aiming for 100%. Clinton Blue Line is fairly low on the priority list, but they'll get to it eventually.

While they're at it, if they could put in an elevator at the Quincy L stop on the Loop, that would help people arriving by Amtrak to ride to the North, West, and South Side.

This one is funded and on the schedule! (A few years from now.)

To expand on the first point, CTA has been making entire lines, or close to it, accessible when renovating them. The Brown, Green, Orange, Pink, and Yellow lines are all-accessible except for the non-accessible Loop stations and a handful of Green stations in Oak Park. (Green, Pink, and Brown were majorly renovated, Yellow was as well IIRC, & Orange is "new" from 1993.) The recently-renovated southern Red Line is also all-accessible from Roosevelt south. If & when CTA can get funding to renovate the northern Red Line -- the embankment portion north of Wilson -- then presumably the stretch of inaccessible stations from Sheridan to Thorndale will become accessible.

On non-renovated lines, CTA is making progress. Howard terminal was (finally!) renovated and made accessible a few years back. Clark/Division is in the middle of renovation but a "spare" accessible mezzanine just opened while the main is closed for remodeling. Wilson is scheduled for renovation soon. On the Loop, a Washington-Wabash station will be built to replace Randolph-Wabash and Madison-Wabash, so that each of the four legs of the Loop has one accessible (and one non-accessible) station. (On the other hand, Harrison just got a very nice remodeling but was not made accessible.)

But some of the subway stations, and some of the expressway-median stations on the Blue Line, are harder nuts to crack. Where the entrances are at the ends of the platform rather than directly on top of or below it, the longer the stairs/escalators are, the harder it is to add an elevator because "straight down" isn't inside the surface station. Clinton (Blue) is such a station due to its depth crossing the river. Irving Park and a lot of the Congress Eisenhower-median stations on the Blue are the same.

Damen is a busy station in a trendy neighborhood but is on a tight curve and IMHO too hemmed in by buildings to be rebuilt like Chicago (Brown) was to deal with its curve. I particularly puzzle at how elevators would fit in at North/Clybourn, also a busy station in a trendy area but exceedingly oddly laid out.

On the second point, I'm looking forward to seeing how they'll make an elevator at Quincy look "Victorian" to fit with the retro (very very brown!) decor of the station.

 

[fairviewroad]

But some of the subway stations, and some of the expressway-median stations on the Blue Line, are harder nuts to crack. Where the entrances are at the ends of the platform rather than directly on top of or below it, the longer the stairs/escalators are, the harder it is to add an elevator because "straight down" isn't inside the surface station. Clinton (Blue) is such a station due to its depth crossing the river. Irving Park and a lot of the Congress Eisenhower-median stations on the Blue are the same.

"Accessible" doesn't always mean an elevator, though. Is there enough room at some of those expressway-median stations for an ADA-approved ramp?

 

[John Bredin]

But some of the subway stations, and some of the expressway-median stations on the Blue Line, are harder nuts to crack. Where the entrances are at the ends of the platform rather than directly on top of or below it, the longer the stairs/escalators are, the harder it is to add an elevator because "straight down" isn't inside the surface station. Clinton (Blue) is such a station due to its depth crossing the river. Irving Park and a lot of the Congress Eisenhower-median stations on the Blue are the same.

"Accessible" doesn't always mean an elevator, though. Is there enough room at some of those expressway-median stations for an ADA-approved ramp?

The Congress-median stations were built in the 1950s with ramps, but there must be something about them that makes them non-ADA-compliant. If they were compliant, I'm sure CTA would mark all the Congress stations as accessible, but it doesn't.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

But some of the subway stations, and some of the expressway-median stations on the Blue Line, are harder nuts to crack. Where the entrances are at the ends of the platform rather than directly on top of or below it, the longer the stairs/escalators are, the harder it is to add an elevator because "straight down" isn't inside the surface station. Clinton (Blue) is such a station due to its depth crossing the river. Irving Park and a lot of the Congress Eisenhower-median stations on the Blue are the same.

"Accessible" doesn't always mean an elevator, though. Is there enough room at some of those expressway-median stations for an ADA-approved ramp?

The Congress-median stations were built in the 1950s with ramps, but there must be something about them that makes them non-ADA-compliant. If they were compliant, I'm sure CTA would mark all the Congress stations as accessible, but it doesn't.

I'm guessing the incline on the ramps is more than what is required now.

 

[Trollopian]

Pittsburgh is really, really bad. True, it's not much of a "destination" on Amtrak; only two long-distance routes (Capitol Limited and the Pennsylvanian) stop here, and each runs only daily. And the CL arrives and leaves in the wee hours because Pittsburgh is the halfway point between Washington and Chicago. But even so, connections to local transit are poor. Several bus routes stop within a few blocks, but you won't find map or schedule information at the station. And there isn't even a safe pedestrian route. The only sidewalk is narrow, cobbled, and impossible for anyone with rolling luggage, and we won't even mention a wheelchair. Sure, you could cross to the opposite side (by the Greyhound terminal). But in a nice touch, that involves crossing four busy lanes of traffic. Without a signal or even a painted crosswalk.

What makes this particularly heartbreaking is that Pittsburgh's station is just an Amshack, though adjacent to the wonderful Union Station designed by Daniel Burnham at the turn of the last century with its beautiful rotunda. Its location is excellent, and Pittsburgh should be a natural hub for long-distance, regional, and commuter rail; but it isn't.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

(Of course, this line is not being built for transportation purposes, it is a political payoff.)

Very few (none, actually) projects are built for transportation. Roads or rails or trails. They are all political payoffs. PBQD.

If they serve a transportation purpose, that and the ridership that use them are entirely incidental. Which is why capital funds are fairly easy to get (The Rolls-Royce in the garage) compared to the operating funding (the fuel to drive it).

 

[neroden]

Regarding Amtrak and Sounder not being connected at King Street Station, I suspect very few people transfer between Amtrak and Sounder.

Sure, but it is the logical way to get from Portland to Edmonds, or from Vancouver BC to Kent. What gets to me is that the disconnect is GRATUITOUS. There's already a large overhead bridge to access the Sounder platform, but it carefully skips over the Amtrak platforms (which are right under it) and dumps passengers out in a parking lot, leaving people to walk through moving cars to get to the station...
...and at the other end of the station, on the other exit, with an overgrade street bridge, Sounder carefully puts its passengers on the north side of the street, while Amtrak puts its passengers on the south side of the street.

Gratuitous disconnect.

 

[neroden]

The Congress-median stations were built in the 1950s with ramps, but there must be something about them that makes them non-ADA-compliant. If they were compliant, I'm sure CTA would mark all the Congress stations as accessible, but it doesn't.

I'm guessing the incline on the ramps is more than what is required now.

Another possibility is that the ramps don't have the required landings. An accessible ramp has to have landings at specified minimum intervals (because it's really hard to wheel a chair up a very long ramp without a stopping place).

 

[Eric S]

Quincy is considered an historically accurate station. So I doubt it will ever get an elevator.

Clinton is on an odd space with a small footprint. In order to expand to use elevators and escalators it would take a major reconstruction. Unfortunately, I think it is still seen as the poor, ******* stepchild of a station, akin to what Grand and Chicago on the Blue Line were twenty years ago, before the neighborhoods revived and they reopened beyond rush hours.

Not sure what the status of this project is, but evidently CTA is planning to add elevators to Quincy/Wells.