30(3) in a rear end collision?

[jis]

The F in FRED would suggest that it provides the "Flashing" llght at the rear end.

 

[JoeBas]

Well, at least SOME people say the "F" stands for "Flashing"...

 

[NorthShore]

Yes, but my question is whether there are or are not usually ADDITIONAL marker lights?

Most passenger trains I'm familiar with have double red lights on corners of the last car. Sometimes one burns out. But the other remains lit.

I don't typically pay close enough attention to freights to notice anything beyond the FRED. Perhaps I haven't noticed because there is nothing else to notice. In which case, and in light of this accident, perhaps there SHOULD be additional tail lights required.

 

[oldtimer]

The light that is part of the FRED is the only light I have ever seen on a freight train. There is no source of power on freight cars to provide lighting. It is possible that a portable marker light could be attached, but I never have seen that. I don't claim to be the ultimate source of knowledge. ( I know that I made one mistake in my life, I thought that I was wrong once and it turned out that I was not!) :giggle: :help: :help:

 

[GG-1]

( I know that I made one mistake in my life, I thought that I was wrong once and it turned out that I was not!) :giggle: :help: :help:

And then you came Here Aloha

 

[jis]

According to further info. emergency brake was applied at 20mph, bringing down the speed to 3mph at the point of impact. So one half of the restricting speed rule was not violated but the other half evidently was.

 

[DLH]

I was onboard 30 in a family sleeper with my 3 young children. We were also traveling with my brother & sister-in-law who were on their honeymoon. (Needless to say, it was her first and LAST Amtrak trip!). Woke at 3:30 am & never got back to sleep. Was extremely frustrated at the lack of acknowledgement and info from staff. We were told we would NOT be bused if we were to ride 30 from Pitt to DC (only those who had a connection @ Pitt were to be bused); however, at the last minute, Amtrak decided the train would end at Pittsburg & they gave us minimal time to eat lunch (we had JUST eaten breakfast!!! Breakfast was served extremely LATE & service was unbelievably SLOW & LOUSY!) & pack our things! Not easy with 3 small kids!!! Plus, we were not really hungry for lunch... We were TOLD we were being bused, as it would be FASTER... Not! I was extremely frustrated by the lack of info from 3:30 am until we were shipped like cattle... (The conductor/engineer DID acknowledge his "ALLEGED RULE VIOLATION" over the loud speaker and we did see him removed from the train... in the middle of nowhere, while we waited endlessly for a new crew...). Once in Pittsburg, took a while to board about 300 passengers onto 6 buses. Even worse, instead of bussing all those NOT going to DC together, they put a single passenger detouring to Martinsburg (at least 45 minutes out of the way!) on our bus, inconveniencing the other 49 of us... Then, our driver had no idea how to get to Union Station & passengers had to guide them with their phones... We finally pulled in to DC after a 6 hour bus ride, during which my 5-year-old fell asleep on my lap (after crying) & I was miserably uncomfortable holding him. My two older children were equally miserable, having expected to be in DC for our vacation at 1:10 pm instead of getting on a bus @ 2:30 pm and not arriving until 8:30 pm, starving & stiff from sitting 6 hours! Our vacation started off terribly and I was unbelievably tired & suffered from horrible back pain the entire week. Amtrak has been less than helpful, only offering a tiny refund on our room from Pittsburg to DC & some travel vouchers that won't get us anywhere - not that I'm keen to try Amtrak again... This was our 5th Amtrak trip. Experiences prior were positive... may never take Amtrak again! Have to WRITE a letter & not sure how long it will take them to respond, but wondering what to expect? Is a measly refund & travel vouchers all we will receive or because of the possible negligence/violation involved should I pursue further compensation? I realize this happens "all the time" (even one of the customer service people actually said "Amtrak has crashes all the time!!!"???!!!), but does Amtrak do anything to make it right?

 

[MrFSS]

When you buy an Amtrak ticket, it is to get you from point A to point B. They did that and seem to want to compensate you for the loss of service they couldn't provide. What more could you possibly want? What else would you have them do to "make it right?"

 

[SarahZ]

When you buy an Amtrak ticket, it is to get you from point A to point B. They did that and seem to want to compensate you for the loss of service they couldn't provide. What more could you possibly want? What else would you have them do to "make it right?"

In addition to that, if someone made announcements at 3:30 AM and woke me up, I'd be ticked. (Barring an emergency, of course.)

 

[Bob Dylan]

Sorry y'all had this bad experience but these kind of things happen during All forms of travel! We've all had experiences like this that turned into unexpected adventures! I've been treated much worse by Airlines when a Flight that ended up being a trip from hell happened!

You did say that your other Amtrak trips went smoothly! I'd say that Mr. FSS' comment pretty well sums it up, what else would you have Amtrak do?

 

[jis]

Last time when I was delayed by 24 hours by United Airlines because of a misconnect caused by a mechanical issue on an itinerary from Newark to Hongkong, they just gave me a voucher for future travel worth about half the value of the ticket for the itinerary. A single change journey turned into a 3 change journey.

So I'd say it would be really good if Amtrak gives you a voucher for the entire fare, which I would be very surprised if they do. Afterall they did get you where you were going in a single piece, and you did not have to endlessly negotiate with anyone to get you there.

 

[Ispolkom]

Have to WRITE a letter & not sure how long it will take them to respond, but wondering what to expect? Is a measly refund & travel vouchers all we will receive or because of the possible negligence/violation involved should I pursue further compensation?

If you want to be compensated by Amtrak, I wouldn't write a letter or send an e-mail. I'd call 1-800-USARAIL and when you get a person ask to be transfered to Customer Relations. Tell your story and they'll offer you a voucher for future travel. I can't guess how much you'll get, as in my limited experience the voucher amounts have varied disproportionately to the severity of the complaint.

Me, I think that DLH has a legitimate beef. I generally don't complain about delays (after all, I ride the Empire Builder, so I'd have to complain about every trip), but in this case the delay is, it would seem, Amtrak's fault.

 

[VentureForth]

Not to immediately put blame on the engineer, but it happened at 3:45am, just as all these types of incidents happen.

I've heard Amtrak already said there was a rules violation, and I'm sticking with my fatigue theory.

I appreciate your theory, but there is no evidence (in this thread) as to what time the engineer took to the controls. What if he just boarded at 2:45 AM? I haven't seen anything about how much rest he had the day/night before either.

Also to indicate that "just as all these types of incidents happen" is blatantly untrue. The Metrolink Chatsworth disaster happened at 4:22 PM. The Pere Marquette rear ending in Chicago happened at 10 AM. Fatigue can happen at any time of the day. As can carelessness.

I still stand by that two sets of eyes in the cab - especially when dealing on the same tracks as freight and bi-directional running on the same track (which wouldn't have been in this case) - should have an OPERATIONS conductor and a PASSENGER conductor. Yes, the conductor repeats the signal from the call by the engineer. A parrot can do that. A conductor cannot verify or repeat a MISSED call. If the timing, speed, conditions were the same every day, he may have instinct to know where he is and if a call is missed. Otherwise, if it's dark outside, if the train is running slower than usual, he can't know precisely where he is relative to a signal excepting the engineer's calls are accurate.

 

[jis]

If you want to be compensated by Amtrak, I wouldn't write a letter or send an e-mail. I'd call 1-800-USARAIL and when you get a person ask to be transfered to Customer Relations. Tell your story and they'll offer you a voucher for future travel. I can't guess how much you'll get, as in my limited experience the voucher amounts have varied disproportionately to the complaint.

Me, I think that DLH has a legitimate beef. I generally don't complain about delays (after all, I ride the Empire Builder, so I'd have to complain about every trip), but in this case the delay is, it would seem, Amtrak's fault.

Be that as it may, I'd be exceedingly surprised (and pleasantly so I might add) if they offer anything more than a voucher.
I thought that the comment by an Amtrak agent that "Amtrak crashes all the time" was kind of odd, and if Amtrak were as well managed as we would like them to be, such persons would not be working for Amtrak for too long. Can you imagine an airline agent saying something like that?

 

[SarahZ]

I thought that the comment by an Amtrak agent that "Amtrak crashes all the time" was kind of odd, and if Amtrak were as well managed as we would like them to be, such persons would not be working for Amtrak for too long. Can you imagine an airline agent saying something like that?

I wondered about that too. That is unprofessional, not to mention incorrect.

 

[Ispolkom]

Be that as it may, I'd be exceedingly surprised (and pleasantly so I might add) if they offer anything more than a voucher.

Me too, but people have reported getting AGR point refunds, and I thought that wasn't possible, so I really don't know. I just know that I've never gotten anywhere with written communications with Amtrak about such matters. But I certainly could be wrong about that as well. As with most Amtrak issues, YMMV.

 

[DLH]

All 5 times we have traveled by Amtrak, our trains have been late (of course, not THIS late)... What irked me was the lack of info - up until we were almost to Pittsburg (about 2 pm), we were not told what had happened, other than the "alleged rules violation" announcement. They told us our train would continue on to DC, but then at the last minute, changed the plan. I anticipated a 32 hour trip (got on in Topeka, KS) to DC. I did NOT anticipate a 34 hour trip to Pittsburg, THEN, a 6 hour bus trip to DC! I did not anticipate being awoken by a crash at 3:30 am and it was alarming to wake up with a jolt and then see a freight go by just minutes later and wonder if our engineer was competent... I was unable to sleep again until 11 pm the next night, after an exhausting day with VERY upset & hungry children. It was extremely frustrating not being told what was going on. We were told they were putting us on a bus because it would be faster, but it was not. Our driver didn't even know where he was going! No one had any idea what time we would finally arrive at Union Station. When the busload of at least 50 pulled over at a turnpike rest stop about 2 hours later, the driver told us we had 15 minutes for the stop. I decided there was no way we could beat the herd in that amount of time & had my kids use the restrooms, esp. since we had eaten at 11:30 (even though my kids were not hungry since they got breakfast around 9:30, and my child was served a nasty hot dog that was nuked beyond recognition!),. Plus, someone asked the driver how long until we get there & he said 2 hours & I figured they could wait (2 more hours made sense - google estimated the trip to take about 4 hours)... My kids were so excited! Only 2 more hours! When they found out the driver & passenger were discussing the next "smoke break", when we stopped in Martinsburg 2 hours later, they were devastated! We found out then, he had NO CLUE how much longer, esp. since he didn't even know how to get to Union Station! The whole ordeal was made more frustrating by the lack of information. When you travel with 3 children for 40 hours, it is helpful to be able to say, "We'll be there in ___ hours", rather than "I have no #@$%! clue!!!" We missed a half-day (1/8) of our 4-day vacation in DC and started our trip EXHAUSTED. Amtrak makes it extremely difficult to get in touch with a live human, but I have spoken to Customer Relations 3 times (1st, had to wait until ALL travel was completed, and was on hold OVER AN HOUR twice). They are less than empathetic, as they keep telling me "this happens all the time" and then, want to make it up by offering us travel vouchers for another trip BUT twice I have been told to write to the "Amtrak Office of Customer Relations" since in this case, it was Amtrak's fault we were late. I have done a considerable amount of traveling, to Europe, and all across the US, both by air, by Amtrak, and by auto. I realize many things can go wrong & in this case, they did. However, had they at least been honest with us, perhaps I wouldn't be negative. I really did enjoy taking Amtrak, but I felt held hostage and helpless in this situation.

 

[DLH]

Yes, apparently, they must have had high "Customer Relations" traffic that week, as they wanted to know if mine was the train (also 30) that hit the man walking on the tracks, which happened two days later in a nearby spot & I think delayed that train even longer... The Customer Service attitude, as well as that of some staff we encountered in the DC station has been a bit interesting to me, especially, the excuse about "we don't own the tracks, we can't be responsible for always being late..." I've heard this for years, but I was extremely surprised by the Customer Relations lady who told me "Amtrak has crashes all the time"... What? Seriously? This was very disturbing when she just dismissed by comment that I understand the whole sharing the tracks with freight train excuse, but in this case our engineer/conductor was removed due to an "Alleged Rules Violation"... shortly after our "coupling/crash", a freight train came whizzing by - made me wonder how safe we really were. When she told me I would have to wait until my travel was completed to file my complaint, "because who knows what could happen on the way back", it made me leary about my return trip! I wish train travel was more reliable because I find it an enjoyable way to travel. I recommended it to friends "as long as you're not in a hurry"... but, probably won't be recommending it anymore!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Last time when I was delayed by 24 hours by United Airlines because of a misconnect caused by a mechanical issue on an itinerary from Newark to Hongkong, they just gave me a voucher for future travel worth about half the value of the ticket for the itinerary. A single change journey turned into a 3 change journey. So I'd say it would be really good if Amtrak gives you a voucher for the entire fare, which I would be very surprised if they do. Afterall they did get you where you were going in a single piece, and you did not have to endlessly negotiate with anyone to get you there.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Amtrak isn't serving routes like Newark to Honk Kong. Amtrak is serving routes like Topeka Kansas to Washington DC. I haven't flown as much as you have but with 100,000 BIS miles on UA under my belt I've never seen anything like the OP is describing on a domestic route. Which is what they'll be looking at when choosing the carrier for their next domestic trip. It's true that United is known for lousy customer service and I don't dispute that in the least, but I also don't see how that makes Amtrak look any better.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Sorry you had to deal with that DLH, but as to not taking the train again or not recommending it to others, would you do the same if you had a bad experience with an airplane or even in your car? Maybe you get stuck in traffic on an interstate due to an horrific accident. Will you no longer use that interstate and/or tell others not to use it? Just something to think about. The experience you had is not a common experience on the train anymore than an horrifice traffic at a standstill for hours accident on an interstate.

 

[jis]

Last time when I was delayed by 24 hours by United Airlines because of a misconnect caused by a mechanical issue on an itinerary from Newark to Hongkong, they just gave me a voucher for future travel worth about half the value of the ticket for the itinerary. A single change journey turned into a 3 change journey. So I'd say it would be really good if Amtrak gives you a voucher for the entire fare, which I would be very surprised if they do. Afterall they did get you where you were going in a single piece, and you did not have to endlessly negotiate with anyone to get you there.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Amtrak isn't serving routes like Newark to Honk Kong. Amtrak is serving routes like Topeka Kansas to Washington DC. I haven't flown as much as you have but with 100,000 BIS miles on UA under my belt I've never seen anything like the OP is describing on a domestic route. Which is what they'll be looking at when choosing the carrier for their next domestic trip. It's true that United is known for lousy customer service and I don't dispute that in the least, but I also don't see how that makes Amtrak look any better.

There are many ways to compare, and none of them are obviously better than the other. They just take different issues to be more important.

When you are on a journey that is going to take 16 hours anyway,oe can compare it with an air journey that takes that long and is on a route with service that is as infrequent, for an apples to apples comparison in that sense. Of course on a 3 hour domestic route with 12 flights a day you will normally or even abnormally not get delayed 24 hours, unless of course a major snow storm intervened.

Another plausible metric would be what proportion of the original time were you delayed by. By this measure even a 9 hour delay on a 16 hour schedule comes out looking wonderful compared to a 3 hour delay on a three hour schedule by air, which does happen not too infrequently. Of course a total delayed travel time of six hours may be much more desirable than a total delayed travel time of 25 hours. But then in the latter case one started by volunteering to spend 16 hours on a trip that could be done in 3 or less anyway. So....

For traveling between two places both of which have significant airports, based purely on travel time and delay considerations, on most routes it is hard to see how one justifies traveling by Amtrak anyway.

Who said anything about Amtrak looking any better? When it comes to these sorts of things, one way in which Amtrak is better is that it is usually less cantankerous about providing overnight hotel operation should it be necessary, than airlines. But it just about ends there. And of course using your argument, for most domestic travel by air, overnight accommodation is mostly a non-issue anyway, unless one is really unfortunate, and airlines seldom provide that.

In my Hong Kong example, United actually provided me overnight accommodation but mainly because I was 1K. There were many who had to go and fend for themselves. Everyone apparently got meal vouchers though.

 

[DLH]

jis, they are only offering to refund less than 1/15 of our fare as compensation for the loss of our Family Room & my SIL & brother's room from Pittsburgh to DC, plus offering a very small amount in travel vouchers...which, I guess it sounds like I should be satisfied with? My problem with Amtrak was in how they handled the situation by not informing us of what was going on, plus I felt by not acknowledging what occurred, they were hiding something (what exactly was the "Alleged Rule Violation" for which the engineer & conductor were removed/suspended?) AmtrakBlue, yes, I would be honest with friends - four times out of five our train ran late, but the fifth trip was an epic fail! If train 30 had at least delivered us all the way to DC, I don't think I would have been as negative if we were just 7.5 hours late. It was the bus ride that pushed us over the edge... I like train travel, but hated the bus! Last summer we drove our mini-van to Florida from KS for a family wedding. We made the mistake of hitting rush-hour traffic in Atlanta... we will avoid Atlanta at all costs & I would never recommend it to anyone... but that's just my personal experience. Maybe others don't mind Atlanta traffic? What I did like about Amtrak was the chance to spend time with my kids and that it was less hassle; however, this time it wasn't the case. I got little sleep and was totally stressed out because things were out of my control. Plus, my experience with Customer Relations really made me concerned that my experience was not uncommon! As for a future Amtrak trip, we'll have to see...the voucher amount would not even cover a round-trip from KC to Chicago for our family of five (if we want a twice-the-price "flexible ticket"...which, with 3 kids is a must...) My brother & I were exceptionally lucky that things worked out, as our father had major surgery for cancer in July and we were contemplating post-poning the trip - should have just traveled a day earlier! My SIL is a nurse at a large medical center & had to put in her leave-request 6 months ahead of time & it was my brother's first vacation in 10 years; SHE wanted to fly... Lucky for us, they do NOT want any part of the travel voucher. Guess if we accept the travel voucher, we'll hope for a positive trip experience (in addition to finding the time/money to take a trip!). My husband & I run a business & taking time off from work is extremely difficult, which is why I took the kids without Daddy. He has never taken a train trip... he can't say I haven't warned him!

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Make a PA announcement at 0330 hrs that the train just hit another train would do nothing, but scare people.

It pretty much Amtrak policy not to talk in detail about why the train has stop. No need to give everyone nightmares.

"Sorry folk we just clip a car with four people on board, they were not wearing there seat belts, and got their heads smashed in. So we going to be here into someone show up with a scraper and remove some body parts from the tracks."

The train into Bus thing always sucks. Still have yet to hear why they would do that for this event. Best idea was lack of Train and Engine personal.

Also caught a blimp about a student engineer running the train at impact.

 

[ronkstevens]

In defense of the crew concerning communications about the incident: They might not have known anything to tell the passengers. I know it's a bad situation, and you're sitting there not moving as your frustration builds by the minute. The people that are there to give you an answer are a little bit busy dealing with the situation themselves. In this case, with an alleged rules violation, someone is in big trouble, and everyone involved is only going to speak to the investigators or who they absolutely have to talk to, since anything they say could possibly get them fired.

Also under normal circumstances, the person in charge is on the train, and they will know what is going on. When an incident happens, the person in charge is not on the train, and possibly not even on the scene. The decision to end the trip and not continue to DC was most likely made several levels up in the chain of command. Also in any incident, decisions are made quickly based on need, and sometimes changed several times. You most likely found out about the bussing situation at the last minute because the decision was made last minute. Many other people are also involved. For example, a bus company needed enough available busses and drivers to satisfy the need.

While there are guidelines and protocalls for how things should be handled, every incident has enough uniqueness to it that requires decisions made on a case by case basis.

 

[crescent2]

True, Ron.

Sometimes they do communicate, though. My husband and I were on the Crescent when it hit a car that had gone around a gate. We were told that we had hit a car, and of course when the car was transported away it was visible anyway. Later we were told there was a fatality and that she had been pregnant, so sometimes passengers are told the unpleasant reason for delays. This was not announced, but either a conductor or our attendant came by and told us, I don't recall which.

As for Atlanta traffic, I drive twice as far as Atlanta would be to catch Amtrak in another state. :unsure: Atlanta can be the pits to get through especially at rush hour.

OP, I'm sorry you had such an unpleasant experience. I'm not going to say I wouldn't be very disappointed with a bustitution, because I would be. The compensation doesn't come close to making up for the change in mode of transportation. I don't know if a way exists to really compensate for that. And it also sounds like your experience with Customer Relations wasn't the best, either. I don't think that is the norm, however. I understand your disappointment over the way your trip turned out, but I can't agree with the employee who said that trains "crash all the time." If you choose to give it another try, chances are the experience will be a much better one.