3/4 to Detour via Amarillo

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George Harris said:
For General Information:
In the Nov. 1956 Official Guide, the distance Kansas City to Albuquerque was shown as 933.0 miles via Topeka, Amarillo, Belen and the San Francisco Chief took 17 hours 20 minutes each way. The Passenger Route through La Junta was shown as 902.0 miles KC to Albuq., again via Topeka, 15 miles less via the Ottawa cutoff, and the Super Chief took 15 hours 30 minutes westbound and 15 hours 10 minutes, bypassing Topeka.
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Printman2000,

Here's the quote from George Harris. The biggest difference between Raton and Amarillo is the geographical area. Raton is mountainous while Amarillo is flat, so the speed is fast and steady.
 
Amarillo just seems to me to be a great place to stop. They have a huge BNSF infrastructure here. Also, the existence of Amarillo is directly related to the railroads. It is a railroad town and NEEDS Amtrak. I personally know lots of people who would love to take the train (after hearing about my travels) but will not because they have to travel just to get on one.

I just cannot image anyway we could get service here with the current state of things.
 
printman2000 said:
Amarillo just seems to me to be a great place to stop. They have a huge BNSF infrastructure here. Also, the existence of Amarillo is directly related to the railroads. It is a railroad town and NEEDS Amtrak. I personally know lots of people who would love to take the train (after hearing about my travels) but will not because they have to travel just to get on one.
I just cannot image anyway we could get service here with the current state of things.
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Actually there have been many rumors over the years that BNSF wanted to close the Raton Pass and associated trackage, which would have diverted the Chief through Amarillo. Now that the State of New Mexico owns at least some of those tracks, if not all of the pass, that may never happen.
 
AlanB said:
Actually there have been many rumors over the years that BNSF wanted to close the Raton Pass and associated trackage, which would have diverted the Chief through Amarillo. Now that the State of New Mexico owns at least some of those tracks, if not all of the pass, that may never happen.
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I had read an old story on the local papers website about just that. However, it was dated 2001. Has anyone heard of BNSF wanting to shut down that line recently?
 
printman2000 said:
AlanB said:
Actually there have been many rumors over the years that BNSF wanted to close the Raton Pass and associated trackage, which would have diverted the Chief through Amarillo. Now that the State of New Mexico owns at least some of those tracks, if not all of the pass, that may never happen.
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I had read an old story on the local papers website about just that. However, it was dated 2001. Has anyone heard of BNSF wanting to shut down that line recently?
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I think that the last time I heard a story about it was maybe 2 years ago or so. However as I noted in my post above, I'm also not sure where BNSF's ownership ends now and where the State's begins. If the State actually owns the pass now, that would reduce BNSF's desire to end service on the tracks and probably keep Amtrak on there for the foreseable future.

While re-routing through Amarillo, especially if a way could be found to still serve ABQ, would probably increase ridership, one would then miss such spectacular views as this one:

DCP_2074.JPG


The inside view of Raton tunnel. :lol:

But then there are also scenes like this one.

DCP_2073.JPG
 
racer1735 said:
I'm trying to get my bearings on which route the train is taking (having attended school in Canyon about 25 years ago). As it heads west (south of town, as you say), is it taking the route that loops behind the football stadium down in Canyon, then heading west towards Umbarger and Hereford?
Yes, it is going down the rails next to the football stadium. I know it goes to Clovis. From what I understand, it is stopping in Albuquerque. I have called Amtrak everyday to check the departure time from there to guesstimate arrival in Amarillo.
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One of my favorite railfan spots was when I was working football games in the pressbox at Kimbrough Stadium in Canyon and being able to watch the Santa Fe freights go flying around the curve going around the stadium. It was downhill from Amarillot until just west of Canyon and the trains really huffed it through there.
 
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I was contacted via e-mail from our local CBS station and e-mailed them some pictures I took. I just saw a short report aired on the topic. I will try and post the short video tomorrow in case your interested.

Here is the story on the news station website...

Amtrak In Amarillo
 
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printman2000 said:
I was contacted via e-mail from our local CBS station and e-mailed them some pictures I took. I just saw a short report aired on the topic. I will try and post the short video tomorrow in case your interested.
Here is the story on the news station website...

Amtrak In Amarillo
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They could have at least mentioned your name and made you famous!!
When I open the link, no picture shows up???
 
MrFSS said:
printman2000 said:
I was contacted via e-mail from our local CBS station and e-mailed them some pictures I took. I just saw a short report aired on the topic. I will try and post the short video tomorrow in case your interested.

Here is the story on the news station website...

Amtrak In Amarillo
Click to expand...
They could have at least mentioned your name and made you famous!!
When I open the link, no picture shows up???
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Somethings wrong with their website. It initially starts to load the page with a spot for the picture, but then suddenly drops that spot and rolls the text into the area. So until they fix their page, there is little that we can do. Of course, we only need to roll back up this topic to see the pictures and probably in a larger format than the TV station has.
 
Alan,

Since you have US Railroad map, I am wondering if you have a close up map between ABQ and Belen, in the triangle track area? I was thinking if BNSF adds southern curve track on northside track in Isleta area, that way the Amtrak can back up into a "wye" and then either go westbound or southbound to Belen.
 
From:

www.mrcog-nm.gov/images/Commuter%20Rail/BNSF%20Deal%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

* The BNSF agreement with the New Mexico Department of Transportation is structured in three phases that involve the purchase of nearly 300 miles of rail line from Belen NM to Trinidad CO for $745 million

* Phase One of the agreement which goes effective Jan. 10, 2006, includes the $50 million purchase of 51 miles of mainline track between Belen and Bernalillo for commuter rail service.

* Phase Two involves the $20 million purchase of 48 miles of mainline track between Bernalillo and Lamy NM. This agreement will go into effect Jan. 10, 2007

* Phase Three involves the $ 5 million purchase of 200 miles of mainline track between Lamy NM and Trinidad CO. This agreement goes into effect Dec. 5, 2008.

Note: Other information on the NM DOT web sites list the north end of the purchase at the Colorado state line, so I am not sure which is right.

Here are the milages from the BNSF Division map:

Belen Jct. 932.4

Albuquerque 902.4

Bernalillo 886.0

Lamy 835.2

Raton 659.5

Wootton (State Line) 651.8

Trinidad 635.8

From this we get

Belen to Bernalillo: 46.4 miles*

Bernalillo to Lamy: 50.8 miles*

Lamy to Trinidad: 199.4 miles

* The north end of phase one is a couple of miles north of Bernalillo, which is why phase one and phase two lengths differ from mileposted distances.

Since Lamy to Wootton is only 183.4 miles, the third phase of the purchase must go to Trinidad if the quoted 200 miles of main is anywhere near the right distance, in other words 16 miles more or less into Colorado.

Looks like BNSF sold the first phase for something near its value as an going concern, gave the state a good deal on the second part, and fairly well gave them the rest of it for something that is likely nearer the scrap value of the material in the line. (Maybe even less? )

George
 
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gswager said:
Alan,
Since you have US Railroad map, I am wondering if you have a close up map between ABQ and Belen, in the triangle track area? I was thinking if BNSF adds southern curve track on northside track in Isleta area, that way the Amtrak can back up into a "wye" and then either go westbound or southbound to Belen.
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I suspect that a track might be able to be added, depending on just what is in that area. But it is awfully close to the indian reservation, so I'm not sure if a curved track could be added. Even then though, you'd still be left with a backup move of at least 8 miles or more, part of which is in downtown ABQ. This is inherantly dangerous and probably not a good idea.

In any event, this is about as close as I can zoom in while still keeping everything in the frame.

abq3.jpg
 
Great shot at the crossing. I know what you mean about timing. I drove through JAX today, and got off of 295 literally 2 minutes ahead of 98, and after driving up from Ft. Lauderdale. Now that's great timing!
 
A quick look at Isleta on Topozone says a wye is impractical. At the point where the lines are about 1000 feet apart, which is about what you need for a 10 degree curve, they are also 40 feet different in elevation, which would result in way too steep a grade. The line to Belen is more or less following the Rio Grande and the line to Dailes is climbing fast directly off the split is Isleta, so you are in an impractical chase of the grade.

If you want a wye, it will have to stand alone somewhere south of Albuquerque, and I don't even thik it worthwhile to look for a possible location, as you would need a place to go off perpendicular to the main about 2200 to 2500 feet to the end of track to have a decently long tail track at the top of the wye.

George
 
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gswager said:
I was at Clovis yard to wait for Amtrak, eastbound. It did came at 6:34 pm for a few minutes stop, for BNSF crew change.
Printman2000, what time did that same train arrived at Amarillo?
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Well, it was either real early or REAL late last night. I arrived in my normal waiting spot at 9:15pm and waited there until 12:30am and never saw #4 come through. The earliest it has been is 9:40pm.
 
What has been the run time between Kansas City and Albuquerque or whatever the first stop is back on its normal route? The train should ba able to get close to the normal scheduled run time between these points. After all the freight line is now mostly double track and 70 mph for freights. And, unlike the San Francisco Chief the only stops will be the servicing stops. Even assuming the SW Chief is limited to 70 mph, it might be possible to match the overall run time of the SF Chief. Referencing back to my previous post:

KC to Albuquerque via Topeka and Amarillo - the San Francisco Chief route:

In 1956: 933.0 miles, 17h20m = average speed 53.83 mph

The Super Chief - bypassing Topeka, via La Junta

In 1956: 887.0 miles, 15h30m WB = 57.23 mph, 15h10m EB = 58.48 mph

The Southwest Chief through Topeka and La Junta

In 2006: 902.0 miles, 18h00m WB = 50.11 mph, 17h30m EB = 51.54 mph

In 1956, a lot of the passenger line allowed 100 mph, while today most of it is 79 mph with some still permitting 90 mph. The lower speeds over Raton and Glorietta are probably about the same now as then, or maybe 5 mph slower.

George
 
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