More aptly, the vultures are cirling the carcass.Here is the story in today's LA Times. The knives are out.
CTC? I assume you don't mean Centralized Traffic Control (signaling)?Of course, I really hope they upgrade to CTC on the WAS-NYP corridor with this slug.
Huh? :unsure:Of course, I really hope they upgrade to CTC on the WAS-NYP corridor with this slug.
Low hanging fruit if you consider a several billion dollar upgrade low hanging. Conversion of the old PRR catenary to constant tension would not be cheap or, considering it has to be done accommodating traffic, fast.jls,
I meant Constant Tension Catenary. And...that's a shame, given that it really is low-hanging fruit in terms of trip time improvement.
I thought it was only $500 million for each NYP-PHL and PHL-WAS or somewhere in that ballpark according to the master plan (or somesuch documentation)?Low hanging fruit if you consider a several billion dollar upgrade low hanging. Conversion of the old PRR catenary to constant tension would not be cheap or, considering it has to be done accommodating traffic, fast.jls,
I meant Constant Tension Catenary. And...that's a shame, given that it really is low-hanging fruit in terms of trip time improvement.
The real numbers can be estimated by any engineer who has ever worked with catenary and has ever worked with Amtrak. Estimates in the "Master Plan" are for political consumption. $1 billion to completely rebuild the NYP-WAS catenary might not even pay for the copper wires. There will be structure replacements (some structures are pushing 100 years old, the youngest are 75 years old, and many are not suitable for constant tension no matter what condition). Each replacement structure is about $200k and there are potentially over 5000 of them. Every insulator and every piece of catenary hardware will have to be replaced, and a lot of that stuff is custom work. And. last but not least, the work will have to be staged to maintain rail traffic for both Amtrak and the commuter tenants. Many work windows will be late night, short, and inefficient (with the added pleasure of having promised work windows cancelled at the last minute leaving expensive work crews with nothing to do for the night). My somewhat educated guess: the $2.4 billion rejected by Florida would just about do the trick for constant tension catenary, plus it would take at least five years to complete (probably more like ten years, but call me an optimist).Well, I've got to ask: If the master plan numbers are too low, where are the better numbers to be found?
Heh... the darned thing appears to be more over-engineered than the LGV electrification for 220mph! :lol:Here's an example of a political estimate verses the real cost: the New Haven to Boston electrification project was originally estimated and sold at a cost of $300 million. The final cost was $800 million. As Amtrak people repeatedly told me, "we don't do anything cheap." That's a fact they and I know all too well.
The NEC Infrastructure Master plan documents lists in the New York-Washington Program of Improvements table (pg 38) "Constant Tension Catenary (High-Speed Territory)" as costing $1,000 million or 1 billion. The question is how many miles of the NYP-WAS route are considered to be in the "High Speed" territory? Doesn't say. Were they just referencing the short 130 mph section in MD-DE and the straight 135 mph sections in NJ or would this include additional high speed sections after other improvements, maybe to much of the Baltimore-Wilmington segment? But, obviously $1 billion is not for putting up constant tension catenary over the entire NYP-WAS route.I thought it was only $500 million for each NYP-PHL and PHL-WAS or somewhere in that ballpark according to the master plan (or somesuch documentation)?
This thing was the rail equivalent of the Boston "Big Dig" I would be surprised if the $14.6B would have even been enough by the time evarybody got their cut and all the changes and additions were plugged in.Sure. And it only woulda cost $6 billion to build the Deep Cavern Terminal in New York. You know, the one where it was cancelled because there were fears that the price might exceed 14.6 billion or some such like that.
There are some interesting issues with these numbers. The NHV - BOS electrification numbers actually include some considerable amounts that have precious little to do with electrification, but are ornaments that are typically hung on the Christmas tree. From all reports I have seen, the actual electrification cost was something like $3 million (2010 USD) (around $2.4 million 2000) per route mile of double track + additional deltas for triple and 4th track, with Boston South Station eating up a huge chunk. They actually managed to not even complete the entire project while they were at it. A good ballpark figure for US is about $3 million per route mile for double track, and that is green field electrification.Here's an example of a political estimate verses the real cost: the New Haven to Boston electrification project was originally estimated and sold at a cost of $300 million. The final cost was $800 million. As Amtrak people repeatedly told me, "we don't do anything cheap." That's a fact they and I know all too well.
I get confused with what is the story with the funding status for the north Portal bridge replacement project. The whole ARC project would not work without the Portal Bridge replacements, so was it funded or not? I've seen something that Amtrak was going to put up $250 million over the construction period from it's own capital budget, but that might have been assuming Amtrak got such and such capital funding amounts each year. Since this is as much a transit project as intercity rail, because NJT Transit needs a new high level bridge there just as much as Amtrak, whether LaHood could award some funding from the $3 billion of FTA money that was to go to the ARC project.Al Engel mentioned the other day that Amtrak and NJDOT/NJTransit are applying for funds to replace the Portal Swing Bridge across Hackensack River on the NEC, with a high level (50' high) fixed three span Network Tied Arch bridge as per design completed by NJTransit last year.
That's right. 220-MPH electric service to connect with the proposed STL-SPI-CHM-CHI 220-MPH service! It may be a pipe dream, but it's a really sweet pipe dream.Missouri - in a rather bold move, will be applying for $363 million for the Kansas City to St. Louis River Runner service and $600 million to plan, design, and acquire land for a new Kansas City to St. Louis HSR line. Very long odds on getting anything more than some initial planning money for the HSR proposal. The River Runner route might get more money, but not $363 million.
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