X-Train Chugging Along?

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Maybe it's one of these? ;)

handcar-bridge.jpg


I like the facepalm on the guy in the background. Seems apropos to the current thread.

(Source: http://www.railroadhandcar.com/history/handcar-photos.php)
 
It seems like they're now trying to recoup the cost of the initial cost of buying those cars to begin with.

With that said, I agree...some sort of "Club" service on the CA routes (peak-hour Surfliners come to mind) and/or the diner proposal mentioned on the last page (even a "light diner", so to speak) would likely make sense LAX-SAN given the sheer traffic loads. If CA could get something running LAX-BFD, there would almost assuredly be room for such a service LAX-EMY via the Central Valley.

I'm trying to think of other candidate routes for such a service that could clear the Gallery Cars (and presumably wouldn't require overnight service).
 
CA managing to twist UP and BNSF's arms sufficiently to be allowed to operate any regular passenger service over Tehachapi without first doing some significant capacity enhancement work on the segment would be quite a coup, if they can pull it off.
 
I'm not saying they could pull it off, merely noting that such a service would likely be popular.
The popularity of it is an interesting question actually. The San Joaquin Daylight took 4.5-5 hours Bakersfield to Los Angeles while the bus bridge is only 2:15 (a tilting train could probably reduce that figure though). That limits the number of frequencies you can run (probably just a single in each direction) and a lot of people will prefer to take the bus instead for the time savings. My bet is that most ridership gains (above and beyond that for an additional frequency) would be from service to the Antelope Valley and induced ridership from people like me who refuse to take a bus connection or bustitution (nothing against such things in principle, I'm just horribly prone to motion sickness). A 5am departure from San Diego, departing LA at 8am for 12:30 arrival at Bakersfield and 6:00pm at Sacramento (or 6:30pm Oakland) holds some definite promise however, just as an extra frequency on those sections.
 
I'm not saying they could pull it off, merely noting that such a service would likely be popular.
The popularity of it is an interesting question actually. The San Joaquin Daylight took 4.5-5 hours Bakersfield to Los Angeles while the bus bridge is only 2:15 (a tilting train could probably reduce that figure though). That limits the number of frequencies you can run (probably just a single in each direction) and a lot of people will prefer to take the bus instead for the time savings. My bet is that most ridership gains (above and beyond that for an additional frequency) would be from service to the Antelope Valley and induced ridership from people like me who refuse to take a bus connection or bustitution (nothing against such things in principle, I'm just horribly prone to motion sickness). A 5am departure from San Diego, departing LA at 8am for 12:30 arrival at Bakersfield and 6:00pm at Sacramento (or 6:30pm Oakland) holds some definite promise however, just as an extra frequency on those sections.
Well, the route would have several distinct markets added:

-Tourists (since Tehachapi is quite beautiful and impressive, and it would make some "loop" packages sellable)

-Travelers between current lines who don't want to screw with a transfer (or two)

-Antelope Valley line passengers (this would be impacted by timing, of course)

-Endpoint-ish traffic

-Possible XW transfers

The latter seems to be a small market, with the others being fairly big by comparison. I think the tourist angle shouldn't be underestimated...a LAX-EMY-LAX (or vice-versa) package going Tehachapi one way and SLO the other likely has some promise. When you add in the folks who either shun buses in general or who don't like the idea of transferring (particularly multiple times) if they can help it...it adds up.

Also, I think you might see two or three trains per day on the route: One SAN-LAX-BFD-SAC/EMY, one LAX-BFD-SAC/EMY, and one SAN-LAX-BFD. Especially if you can sub this in for an off-peak Metrolink run and/or use it as a possible Xpress West connection at Palmdale?
 
Good point about the tourism; don't know how I overlooked it given how excited all the railroad boards get whenever there's a Tehachapi detour. Does have a slight downside in that it would need to involve an overnight hotel stay, but I'm sure Amtrak would be happy to create and sell that package (or one for taking the Zephyr over the Rockies instead). As for multiple frequencies, I'd honestly be really surprised if we could get more than a single round trip's worth of slots over both the Antelope Valley Line and Tehachapi. Tehachapi along would probably require a minor miracle, but that'd still be faster than getting Union Pacific to let the Daylight up the coast. Wouldn't expect service before 2020 though and that's with California increasing the capacity of Tehachapi (which it is already doing anyhow for freight, partnering with BNSF).
 
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I don't know. I have great difficulty in understanding just WHO X-Train is, nevermind what kind of incredible funding sources they advertise as having. But this line really has me scratching my head: "The first such delivery of Club X Train cars is scheduled to start this month as the cars begin arriving December 9th here in Las Vegas."

Uh, do we have anyone with an idea as to which railcar manufacturer has been secretly building and/or refurbishing existing stock behind our backs? I mean, the 9th is next Monday! :help:
LVRE brought bi-level cars last year, according to them 12 cars, apparently all 1950s vintage Santa Fe bi-levels. The purchase of the cars was discussed earlier in this thread back in 2012. LVRE press release from last year on buying additional cars.

So they will have 12 cars, well maybe depending on whether they really have money to rebuild them, but don't have any place to run them unless Amtrak or CalTrans is willing to work with them. The whole X-Train thing has been rather shaky and muddled from the start.
 
Tehachapi along would probably require a minor miracle, but that'd still be faster than getting Union Pacific to let the Daylight up the coast.
Sorry to hijack a bit, but the latter part of this sentence intrigues me.

Amtrak runs two Surfliner round-trips as far north as San Luis Obispo, in addition to the Coast Starlight, so the capacity is clearly there south of SLO. What militates against extending one of those two "slots" up to San Jose, other than UP intransigence? :p Is there a major reduction in capacity north of SLO -- fewer sidings, etc.? Is there a major increase in freight traffic north of SLO -- agricultural traffic from Salinas?

I'm asking honestly as a Midwesterner who's never been to California and thus has to rely on the Amtrak website and Google Maps. :hi:
 
Sorry to hijack a bit, but the latter part of this sentence intrigues me.

Amtrak runs two Surfliner round-trips as far north as San Luis Obispo, in addition to the Coast Starlight, so the capacity is clearly there south of SLO. What militates against extending one of those two "slots" up to San Jose, other than UP intransigence? :p Is there a major reduction in capacity north of SLO -- fewer sidings, etc.? Is there a major increase in freight traffic north of SLO -- agricultural traffic from Salinas?

I'm asking honestly as a Midwesterner who's never been to California and thus has to rely on the Amtrak website and Google Maps. :hi:
What you are asking about would be the Coast Daylight train which would run from downtown SF to San Jose to LA. It has been in the plans/wish-list for many years and is part of the latest California State Rail plan. It has been stalled because of funding, not given priority, reaching an agreement with UP on track and capacity upgrade projects, and probably the lack of enough rolling stock. With the jolt of additional state funds for conventional passenger rail projects that passed the state legislature earlier this year and the award of the contract to build bi-level corridor cars, the Coast Daylight service could actually start in 3 or 4 years. But the last I read the Coast Daylight is still in the drawn out negotiation stage with UP.
 
From my limited understanding, Union Pacific has very little freight traffic that travels north of SLO along the the "Coast Line." It is the shortest route by rail between LA and SF and used to be a major mainline for Southern Pacific prior to the 1996 merger, but Union Pacific nowadays routes nearly all of their intra-state north-south traffic along the San Joaquin Valley route due to it being mostly double-tracked and relatively flat set of trackage, minus the part going over the Tehachapi Pass of course. As a result, the northern Coast Line receives far less maintenance, is mostly single-track with passing sidings for most of its route, and in the last few years has been plagued with troubles from SP-era antiquated signals and grade crossing equipment malfunctions.

If you told me one of the reasons UP has dragged its feet on signal upgrades and other capital improvements to the route was because they're fully expecting the State of California to pay them Big Buck$$$ for the Coast Daylight, I'd not doubt it for an instant.
 
The slot thing is complicated as all get out with the Daylight and dates back to slot purchases made from Southern Pacific by the state. If memory serves, one of the SLO Surfliners is considered by the state to be a truncated one with slot rights to San Jose. UP is saying that they don't have enough capacity at present and they want the state to pay for CTC and powered switches as I recall. There's talk that California may file a complaint with the STB over the issue.
 
The slot thing is complicated as all get out with the Daylight and dates back to slot purchases made from Southern Pacific by the state. If memory serves, one of the SLO Surfliners is considered by the state to be a truncated one with slot rights to San Jose. UP is saying that they don't have enough capacity at present and they want the state to pay for CTC and powered switches as I recall. There's talk that California may file a complaint with the STB over the issue.
I hope they do! If the State paid for the rights all the way up to San Jose, they should be able to use those rights. Get the legal ball rolling now so that, when the new cars start arriving en-mass in two years, all Amtrak California needs to do is add their fourth official train to the timetables and get service under way.
 
The slot thing is complicated as all get out with the Daylight and dates back to slot purchases made from Southern Pacific by the state. If memory serves, one of the SLO Surfliners is considered by the state to be a truncated one with slot rights to San Jose. UP is saying that they don't have enough capacity at present and they want the state to pay for CTC and powered switches as I recall. There's talk that California may file a complaint with the STB over the issue.
I hope they do! If the State paid for the rights all the way up to San Jose, they should be able to use those rights. Get the legal ball rolling now so that, when the new cars start arriving en-mass in two years, all Amtrak California needs to do is add their fourth official train to the timetables and get service under way.
This has been my understanding for a while as well: CA bought four slots back in the 70s. I forget the exact status of those slots (I think this was about the time CA put together funding for the San Joaquin, and things are a little muddled there), but I specifically remember hearing about four slots.

The question is how many of those went through to San Jose/Oakland/San Francisco. I'm fairly certain that one did, but it might be all four (bearing in mind that there's likely not much traffic that gets added/dropped between San Jose and San Luis Obispo, a slot to SLO may as well be one all the way through).

(Of course, a real question is to what extent is UP actually using the capacity on the Coast Line versus just dumping everything they can on Tehachapi)
 
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Alright, I just spent the last two hours and change reading through most of the 2013 California State Rail Plan and gained some considerable insight I had not enjoyed before. I'd gotten most of my information until this point from other blogs, personal conversations and various media/public information outlets. :)

Anyhow, there is a considerable portion listed on the X-Train and all other proposed/planned/dreamed-up ideas for expanding rail (both passenger and freight) within the state of California. In regard to the Coast Daylight, it really sums up the route like this:

  • The UPRR Coast Subdivision officially runs from San Luis Obispo north to Gilroy; Gilroy to San Jose is jointly operated by, and from San Jose north is fully is owned and operated by PCJPA (CalTrain.)
  • The UPRR Coast Subdivision is extremely lightly used, consisting almost entirely of end-point freight distribution with local light movements. The two daily Amtrak trains (#11 and 14 Coast Starlight) are the only regularly-scheduled movements running the full length of the line.
  • The entire UPRR-owned subdivision is a single-tracked automatic block system protected line, with 100% manually-operated switches allowing access to a limited number of passing sidings. Trains operate on track warrants issued via radio dispatcher.
  • CalTrans does have at least two slots (or one daily round-trip) running from LAUS to San Francisco 4th and King station which it bought from Southern Pacific in 1978. The terms of those slots mean that SCRRA (Metrolink) UPRR, and PCJPA (CalTrain) must honor them.
  • Unlike the three other major service expansion plans for Amtrak California (San Joaquin to Redding, Capitol Corridor to Reno, entirely new route to the Coachella Valley,) the UPRR actually is amicable to the Coast Daylight service, where-as they flat out said "HELL NO" to the others.
  • Only one additional station would need to be built for this service, but it would not need to be in place for service to begin and it would be at the local government's expense to build.
  • The Rail Plan states that service would be able to start in April of 2015, pending agreements to use already reserved slots with UPRR and CalTrain.

So, trying to tie this back into X-Train, I suppose the answer is still awaiting a jury to deliver. Sure, they could look to run one of their cars on a train like this and charge a 1st class fare accordingly. Could we have a Coast Daylight once again running between San Francisco and Los Angeles by 2015? I'm thinking that date has a good chance of slipping, but 2016-17 could be more believable. Only time can tell.
 
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If you told me one of the reasons UP has dragged its feet on signal upgrades and other capital improvements to the route was because they're fully expecting the State of California to pay them Big Buck$$$ for the Coast Daylight, I'd not doubt it for an instant.
yes, UP may indeed be waiting for CA to pay up for capital improvements on the route so they can save on spending their own money. The latest California State Rail Plan was released in May 2013 with the full set of reports available on this webpage for the different corridors. There is a rather extensive 170 page report for the Coast Daylight route under the title Final 2013 Coast Corridor Service Development Plan. I've only skimmed it, but the Coast Daylight may be further off than I thought because the study talks about a 2020 service ridership projection. There is an engineering study underway for new cost estimates, but the report has old estimates adjusted to 2012 dollars of $115 million for track upgrades and $100 million for signal upgrades between Gilroy and San Luis Obispo. If this is ever done, the Coast Starlight would obviously benefit as well.

But we are [SIZE=12pt]definitely [/SIZE] wandering off-topic from the X-Train. To get back on topic, if there was a currently running Coast Daylight service from San Francisco to LA, there might be a market for a couple of luxury cars on the train with dining service for a day trip. Both cities have a sizable population of wealthy or high net income people and are major destination cities for tourists. Add the luxury cars on Fridays and weekends for sightseeing trips between LA and SF.

PS I see Blackwolf posted what he got from the CA State Rail plan documents while I was writing this post!
 
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I tend to concur with that idea...the amount of sleeper turnover in the Bay Area (day sales of rooms EMY/OKJ-LAX) is indicative of this as well. I could see them being able to load 3-4 cars (1-2 coaches and a car that's either food service or mixed food service/lounge/coach space) onto the train with some regularity.
 
LVRE has revised their website with a bunch of possible travel excursions. I think their business plan is throw a whole lot of proposals and ideas against the wall and see if anything sticks.

There is an investor presentation on the website under Rail Car Funding that states these cars are leased from Mid America Railcar, are being refurbed in Indiana (Beech Grove??), and that the schedule is to get 20 cars by the end of 2014 (presumably if they can get investors). Where did these cars originally come from?

On the Facebook page, XTrain posted this about their near term plans: "The cars are finished with the refurbishment and when they get to Vegas, we install the furniture. Then off to LA where they go into service between LA & San Diego in Feb. we are building two more & when those are done we will have enough to run an excursion between LA & Vegas. About May of this year".

LA to San Diego? Is that even remotely a viable "luxury" excursion market?
 
LA to San Diego? Is that even remotely a viable "luxury" excursion market?
my thoughts exactly
I wouldn't bet against it... that seems to be a very busy route, and maybe going "in style" from LA would have enough appeal to support a car full of high rollers (who would rather roll on steel than asphalt).

Those cars look like the ones that the Trinity Railway Express commuter line (Dallas-Fort Worth) uses to supplement their double-decker cars during rush hours, but I'm not a very good trainspotter so YMMV. (pix http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TRE_Budd_Rail_diesel_car.jpg)
 
LVRE has revised their website with a bunch of possible travel excursions. I think their business plan is throw a whole lot of proposals and ideas against the wall and see if anything sticks.

There is an investor presentation on the website under Rail Car Funding that states these cars are leased from Mid America Railcar, are being refurbed in Indiana (Beech Grove??), and that the schedule is to get 20 cars by the end of 2014 (presumably if they can get investors). Where did these cars originally come from?

On the Facebook page, XTrain posted this about their near term plans: "The cars are finished with the refurbishment and when they get to Vegas, we install the furniture. Then off to LA where they go into service between LA & San Diego in Feb. we are building two more & when those are done we will have enough to run an excursion between LA & Vegas. About May of this year".

LA to San Diego? Is that even remotely a viable "luxury" excursion market?
It depends on what they're charging. The weekend of SDCC, these guys could probably sell out two extra cars on most Surfliners. Same thing on other peak weekends, when BC can sell out and/or the whole train goes reserved. Still, it's interesting to see...considering how the Surfliners are largely commuter lines, this is almost in line with the old parlor car services on commuter roads back in the day.
 
LARail.com runs Los Angeles to San Diego weekend excursions regularly for $169 per person RT, including sleeping on the car in San Diego. They also run day trips to San Luis Obispo for for wine tasting, $145. Both of these are popular. Their higher priced offerings also often sellout. I think the X Train will do fine on the coast depending on pricing.
 
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