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Bill Haithcoat

Engineer
Honored Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2002
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4,031
Location
atlanta, georgia
OK--I'm the guy always bringing up the trains from years gone back...does this mean I am an "nostalgia buff" or whatever? By no means. Many things are BETTER today. For example:

COMPUTERIZED RESERVATIONS: This used to be a nightmare. A long trip involving several segments could take one or two weeks to confirm. And even at that there were more flukes, like the same space sold to more than one person by accident. If I were to travel from NYC to CHI to LA to CHi back to NY. the agent in NYC would have to wire CHi; LA and CHi(eastbound) all separately. The only firm reservations he,himself, could maek would be those straight out of NYC.And it was all done with Western Union wire machines.

CONSISTENT LEVEL OF SERVICE---take my word for it...what we have today is a miracle compared to the past. There were many extremes(in both directions)in the past. Nostalgia buffs only remember the good....but there were others...

SHOWERS--are now availble either in your own room or down the hall. In the past only four or five trains in the whole country had a shower, and then it was only in one specific private room on the whole train. These were usually called"master rooms".

PA SYSTEMS--Only the top trains had them. ANd if inferior substitue cars were mixed in the consist, it did not work back through those substitute cars and the regular cars behind them, screwing up the whole idea.

LEG RESTS, IN LONG DISTANCE COACHES.Only the top trains, usually just those from CHI to West coast, had these.

FOLD DOWN TRAYS IN COACHES..This is brand new---we owe this to the airlines. As much as most of us like to eat in the diner, there is a place for this, too.

TVS, MUSIC. A few trains(mostly CHi to West COast)had music---no TV.

ABILITY TO SWITCH EQUIPMENT AROUND THE SYSTEM. In the days of private railroads, it was a lot of trouble to borrow equipment back and forth as needed between lines. That is sort of what the "Pullman" company was for--it allowed railroads which participated in that to move sleepers around the country , due to special traffic needs or equipment substitution,with a miniumum of red tape. But all that is redundant now.

This is all I can think of ...might think of more positives later...others may want to add to this list..I hope they do...anyway, we have much to be pleased with today, especially, the item I put first---ease of sitting back in our easy chairs and making almost instant reservations. Believe me, it was a horror wandering if all the space was going to be avaialble and then not knowing for a week or two.
 
Thanks for that list Bill. :)

While sadly I never had the chance to ride back then, it's good to know that everything wasn't always rosy. We do tend to remember only the good things, while forgetting the bad. This only goes to show that the freight RR’s didn’t necessarily do everything better than Amtrak.
 
ALan, you summed up what I was trying to say very well. Now some things, like computerized reseravations...one could say that everything is computerized like that now...yes...but I do seem to recall tha Amtrak actually BEAT the airlines to the punch on computerized reservations. Then, on a subject like p.a. systems---they are all over the place now, partof the culture---but it is still a valid point that in the "good old days" there were only on a few select trains, and then not always operable---
 
Allow me to elaborate on what I meant by "Consistent level of Servce"---I really meant Amtrak's mandate to try to have sleeping cars on all overnight trains and meal service on trains of any distance. There was NO SUCH mandate in the past--believe me...NO SUCH. Many overnight trains had no sleeper and sometimes no diner(forget lounges). Some trains, made meal stops just like buses, i.e. you got off the train and ate at the station. Or people(called "butcher boys"--these were normally elderly caucasian males) would walk through the train selling things. Sometimes meals were ordered ahead for you at a certain stop---they would get on the train with so many chicken dinners or so many hamburgers, etc...the conducter would have walked through the train asking who wanted a meal brought on board, and what kind. SO---the problems with trains like the Kentuckian having or not having a sleeper---these were nothing compared to the vast extremes(in EACH) direction) of the past. So, go Amtrak!!!
 
Bill Haithcoat said:
Now some things, like computerized reseravations...one could say that everything is computerized like that now...yes...but I do seem to recall tha Amtrak actually BEAT the airlines to the punch on computerized reservations.
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Amtrak did actually beat the airline to the punch on comuterized reservations. They also had and still do have one of the best systems. :)
 
I can remember, as a child, taking a train with my parents from San Antonio to Chicago and return rather often (I can't remember the company or the train's name). I remember crowded sleepers with little privacy and spotty (usually no) meal service. I also remember taking a B&O electric train (I was fascinated by it being electric) between Washington D.C. and New York often. This one was much more consistant in its service: a man going through the cars selling snacks out of an enormous metal basket at very high prices. The prices were so high that they served as universal jokes in the 1950s and early 1960s.

But I also remember the passenger railroads were early adopters of airconditioning. I recall only movie theaters and trains to be cool places in the hot summers until the early 1960s.
 
Bill, thank you for your comparison, I find it so intriguing how diverse the old trains are from today. I enjoy hearing your contributions in general, so once again Thanks. :)
 
hello

don't forget guest rewards the old railroads had no frequent rider programs.

equipment is one thing amtrak did not get completely right. All equipment should fit it to all stations. Single level equipment should have been purchased not superliners.

easier to maintain and keep parts for one type of car and less problems building trains in chicago where both single level and superliner are used.

just my opinon

john
 
Chefhrodes81 is right. As much as I like the Superliners and other cars Amtrak's equipment is way to diverse. Each type of car requires special parts. Amfleet, Viewliner, Superliner, Heritage, Horizon, Acela Express, Turboliner, Surfliner, Cascade Talgo and so forth, I think everyting should be narrowed down to Viewliner, Amfleet, and High Speed Trainset.
 
chefrhodes81 said:
hellodon't forget guest rewards the old railroads had no frequent rider programs.

equipment is one thing amtrak did not get completely right. All equipment should fit it to all stations. Single level equipment should have been purchased not superliners.

easier to maintain and keep parts for one type of car and less problems building trains in chicago where both single level and superliner are used.

just my opinon

john
Click to expand...
I agree to some extent. I think the Viewliners should have had a full fleet before Superliner II 's. The equipment was purchased in an incorrect order. Eventually, maybe the fleet can be reduced and be less complicated, like having Viewliners being configured to Amfleet I seating in addition to the LD's. After all, we operated with Heritage Sleepers as a primary car for many trains for 1 quarter century under Amtrak. The Heritage diners are still in use, not that they're that bad.

The Single Level Fleet should have been invested in earlier, then we should have moved on to Superliners.
 
The Amleets are around 30 years old and were built by Budd just as the Heritage fleet so expect the Amfleets around for the next 20-30 years. I don't know about the Superliners. I mean we have them it's just half of them are rusting away in Beech Grove. We shouldn't just trash them, but I think each one should rebuilt so every one is alike (when the money is avalible). Then all the trains in the east including the Capitol Limited, Cardinal, City of New Orleans, Crescent, Silver Meteor, Silver Star, Palmetto (Silver Palm), Three Rivers (Broadway Limited), Lake Shore Limited, and the Twilight Shoreliner all get Viewliners. The routes I mentioned that right now have Superliners could go to single level bringing up the pool of Superliners for the west. This may allow a daily Miami-New Orleans train, a daily Sunset Limited from New Orleans to Los Ageles, the resinstating of the Pioneer, and the return of the Desert Wind.

I also think there needs to be some organization of the Short Distance Fleet. All Amfleets stay in the Northeast, Horizons in the Midwest, Surfliners in California, and Talgo in the Pacific Northwest. This will probably make things easeir and more cost effective for the repair shops in these locotions so they're not dealing with so many types of equipment.
 
If all Amfleets stayed in the northeast. What would be the point in having amfleet IIs?
 
It would just add to the pool of existing Amfleets. Since those cars have more leg room, foot rests, leg rests, and curtains they could be used as a Business Class car. The lounges could be converted to Business Class cars or be used as Lounges on trains like the Vermonter, Maple Leaf, Adirondack, Ethan Allen Express, Peidmont, and Carolinian.
 
What's wrong with them being on long distance trains? Their not bad.
 
As much as I love the Amfleets they were truely not ment for Long Distance travel. Their small windows, cramped interior, and little luggage space does not make for a comfortable 24 hour ride. Also the Lounge is a little dull with just a snack bar and 8 tables. Since I'm not a smoker the smoking lounge has no use for me.
 
Amtrak Watcher said:
This one was much more consistant in its service: a man going through the cars selling snacks out of an enormous metal basket at very high prices. The prices were so high that they served as universal jokes in the 1950s and early 1960s.
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The high prices of food sold or served on board trains in the 1950's and 60's was just as big of a standing joke as the quality of the food. In later years, prior to Amtrak, SP was one of the worst, forcing passengers to purchase virtually inedible food from automats at up to 3 times the going rate of a regular cafe.

The UP was almost as bad, but least they had real live waiters serving the passengers. The only railroad serving the Southwest that still had good food at that time was the ATSF, and even they were overpriced.

Look at what it is like today, reasonably priced meals, snacks, and beverages from dining or lounge cars on virtually all trains.

The meals, snacks, and beverages available in the larger stations now are also a vast improvement over the old days.

Whenever I have to make connections at the Los Angeles Union Station in the late afternoon or early evening, I always go to the Traxx bar and have a beer or two. I don't get ripped off; $3 or so for a beer, the same prices that any free-standing bar in the area would charge. Try that at an airport!

I really and truly believe that the railroads were trying to run off passengers in the 50's and 60's
 
Don't the amfleet cars windows come in differrent sizes(all amfleet cars don't have the same size windows)? I mean some cars have bigger windows than others. Some amfleets have pretty small windows, but some others have a decent size(how big do one think a window should be?). Cramped interior? I don't know about that, but theres plenty of space when your seated and the seats are comforatble. Maybe there is room for some improvements(too bad there probaly won't be amfleet IIIs.)
 
One of the most notable improvements in rail passenger service since the inception of Amtrak is the transportation of connecting passengers between delayed trains by alternative modes: taxi, van, or bus, and I have ridden all three at one time or another.

In the pre-Amtrak days, connecting passengers were on their own, especially if they were interline (changing from one railroad to another).

Hey! I just got a promotion! I guess I'll just pat myself on the back! :rolleyes:
 
Lots of good legacy information here!

I've been on trains all over the world, and don't recall ever seeing a shower in any of them.
 
Amfleet 2 car are OK for long distance trains. But nothing will replace the seats from the old heritage type cars for comfort. Also the windows were much bigger. A long distance viewliner coach would be a huge improvement over any amfleet equipment.
 
Steve4031 said:
Amfleet 2 car are OK for long distance trains. But nothing will replace the seats from the old heritage type cars for comfort. Also the windows were much bigger. A long distance viewliner coach would be a huge improvement over any amfleet equipment.
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Steve,

Come ride the Acela Express. :) I'd say that the seats are comparable to the Heritage. The windows however are the biggest and best I've ever seen, short of an observation car or a sightseerer lounge.
 
The coaches were replaced first most likely because they were in the worst shape. Those cars took a real beating. An aerage seat does not recieve the kind of attention tht a sleeper room does. I personally do not like to sit in the coaches largely because tthose seats have had hundreds of thousands of people sitting it them. I personally wish they would put the headrest covers out more.
 
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