Viewliner II Part 2: Dining Car Production, Delivery, Speculation

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As I understand it, Viewliner II sleeper cars do not have plumbing in the Roomettes. Is the Silver Meteor upgraded to using these cars yet? The Amtrak web site naturally says nothing about these and only has pictures of the old model.
 
As I understand it, Viewliner II sleeper cars do not have plumbing in the Roomettes. Is the Silver Meteor upgraded to using these cars yet? The Amtrak web site naturally says nothing about these and only has pictures of the old model.
There is only one diner and the seventy baggage cars that have been delivered, next in line are the remaining diners, the dorm/baggage cars, and only after that will the twenty five sleepers be delivered.
 
Not in our lifetimes then, huh?

Seriously, however, Congress has bigger fish to fry than late delivery of a few passenger cars.
 
investigation? it seems Amtrak and CAF are both OK with delays !! so

maybe the delays were caused by mutual change in contract ??

It seems only the rail buffs are upset as Amtrak or IG of Amtrak has not started any investigation or claim for the delays.
 
Well folks, it's March and still no new cars out of CAF. This whole fiasco will eventually end up as a congressional investigation.
Indeed. 8 pages into a thread that is supposed to deal with production and delivery and we haven't come up with a new car...although there are rumblings. However, that blew up last time so let's see if something concrete occurs.
 
I don't remember the black vents flowing air. But I could be mistaken. I know you can close the silver vents and I thought the heating was near the floor?
There was cold air coming out of the black vents during my last trip.
It's strange. I'm on the Crescent right now and absolutely nothing is coming out of the black vents. Seems like fresh air from the top vents and the heating is definitely near the floor. Maybe the A/C comes out of the black vents. Too cold for that today!
 
I have ridden numerous times in Viewliner roomettes on the Lake Shore, Cardinal, Crescent, and once on the Silver Meteor. My experiences have always been as follows:

There are 2 vents located below each window. Each vent is controlled by a black knob at the end of the vent. You want more air...open the vent. Less air...close the vent. The air coming out of these vents is cool but never cold in my experience.

Located on the wall opposite the sink/toilet are two round vents with a black grated plastic covering. One vent is for the lower bunk...one is for the upper bunk. Both vents have below them buttons to push for "off", "low", "medium" and "high". Again the air temp is about the same as what comes out of vents below the windows.

As for heat, on the wall opposite the sink/toilet, is a round knob to regulate the heat. On the knob are settings for "off", "50", "60", "70","80", etc. But I have found that you ignore the settings. Turn the knob and at around "70" you will hear it click. If you want heat, you move it past the click to the higher numbers...if you don't want heat you turn it the other direction and hear it click to the lower settings ( or just set it at the "off" setting"). The Viewliner roomettes, in my opinion, are more comfortable than the Superliner roomettes. The Superliners have the one vent blowing cool air above the door. Given the age of these cars, some vents work better than others. On warm days if the sun is coming through the windows, the Superliner roomettes can get pretty warm.

Maybe I have been lucky regarding the Viewliners I have been on, but so far they have always been comfortable.
 
I don't remember the black vents flowing air. But I could be mistaken. I know you can close the silver vents and I thought the heating was near the floor?
There was cold air coming out of the black vents during my last trip.
It's strange. I'm on the Crescent right now and absolutely nothing is coming out of the black vents. Seems like fresh air from the top vents and the heating is definitely near the floor. Maybe the A/C comes out of the black vents. Too cold for that today!
OK. Responding to my own post, I cranked up the heat last evening and warm air was definitely coming out of the black vents. And the knob/lever only closes the top vents which seem to flow only cooler air.
 
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I hate saying it, but March is fading fast and no one has posted any graphics vaguely hinting at that something might soon be emerging from Elmira.

Nick
 
I hate saying it, but March is fading fast and no one has posted any graphics vaguely hinting at that something might soon be emerging from Elmira.

Nick
Just a guess, but since it is claimed that CAF is losing money on each Viewliner, we may be seeing some procrastination on their part. If we go back to the original schedule everything was supposed to have been delivered by now. .

The original delivery schedule set in 2013 shows the final Viewliner was to be delivered in Jan 2017. If it keeps going like this, why before you know it, the order will be cancelled.
 
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I hate saying it, but March is fading fast and no one has posted any graphics vaguely hinting at that something might soon be emerging from Elmira.

Nick
Just a guess, but since it is claimed that CAF is losing money on each Viewliner, we may be seeing some procrastination on their part. If we go back to the original schedule everything was supposed to have been delivered by now. .
Aren't they actually losing even more every day longer it takes? I'd think the fact that they're already in the red would lead to "Do whatever it takes to shove them out the door and stop the bleeding".
 
That assumes there isn't a limitation on penalties, which is often the case with projects. I'd guess that if there was one, they blew past it so long ago they don't remember what that moment looked like.
 
Just a guess, but since it is claimed that CAF is losing money on each Viewliner, we may be seeing some procrastination on their part. If we go back to the original schedule everything was supposed to have been delivered by now. .
Aren't they actually losing even more every day longer it takes? I'd think the fact that they're already in the red would lead to "Do whatever it takes to shove them out the door and stop the bleeding".
I'd think the same thing, JoeBas. The longer it takes to fulfill the order, the longer CAF has to pay for employees, facilities, utilities, etc. Get things done and over with as quickly as possible.
 
I have absolutely no insider information, but my professional instincts tell me there is a lot more involved here than meets the eye. I see disputes involving stuff like change orders, specification interpretation, acceptance criteria, product quality, and the like . I see CAF saying Amtrak is not paying what they think they are owed, and Amtrak saying that CAF is not delivering what they are supposed to be delivering. Situations like this tend to be pretty messy. I just have a gut feeling that several law firms will be the ultimate winners here.

If the Amtrak Inspector General ever puts out a report on this contract, it could make for interesting reading.
 
That assumes there isn't a limitation on penalties, which is often the case with projects. I'd guess that if there was one, they blew past it so long ago they don't remember what that moment looked like.
It's not about penalties to the supplier or the payment, I'm talking about avoidable costs like salaries, taxes, etc., that they could all "wind down" and get off the books as soon as possible.

Their income is set, with the penalties. The expenses are continuing to tick...
 
Contracts get renegotiated all the time in the private sector – someone with Moorman's experience would be very comfortable with it. I have no idea what's really going on, so I would not assume one way or the other. But if the original contract doesn't meet current needs and/or strategy, the logical thing to do would be to renegotiate it so that it does. Or at the least, cut the losses.

It's not unusual in the public sector to let an existing contract drive strategic decisions, but that not the way private companies work. Or at least not the way they're supposed to work.

They're bought. The money is spent.
 
Single-level sleepers are profitable. Highly profitable. Moorman would have to be an idiot to cancel the sleeper order, and he isn't known for being an idiot (though you never know).

Diners are significantly costly but I believe that is more to do with method of operation than with equipment.
 
Contracts get renegotiated all the time in the private sector – someone with Moorman's experience would be very comfortable with it. ... if the original contract doesn't meet current needs and/or strategy, the logical thing would be to renegotiate it ...

It's not unusual in the public sector to let an existing contract drive strategic decisions, but that not the way private companies work. Or at least not the way they're supposed to work.

They're bought. The money is spent.
I'd still like to see the order renegotiated to buy more sleepers, bag dorms, and baggage cars, which could be converted to sleepers, bag dorms, or perhaps even diners in the future. (I don't know what to say about ordering more diners.) Such single-level equipment will never be cheaper, tho I'd be willing to pay enuff so that CAF wouldn't lose still more money. LOL.
 
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