Train vs. Plane -- The New York Times steps in

[MARC Rider]

Train vs. Plane: And the Winner Is ... Well, It Depends
An analysis of six trips in North America evaluates which method is quicker, cheaper and easier.

The author of the article, Elaine Glusac, appears to prefer to Lincoln Service to flying between Chicago and St. Louis. On the other hand, she's not a fan of Boston to Washington on the NEC (though NY-Boston and NY to Washington are, of course, on her list.

Interesting to see the mainstream media are writing about trains as practical transportation, not an "experiential" frill. It might be worthwhile to point her to all the passengers who ride the longer routes as practical transportation, even if flying is definitely faster.

 

[Qapla]

I guess it all depends on your definition of "faster".

While the time in the metal tube in the air may be less than the time in the metal tube on the rails ... what about the overall "trip"?

When we were looking into a trip to Newark (well we actually went to NY but rooms are cheaper in NJ) we looked at air and train. The time spent in the metal tube didn't compare -but, let me explain what we decided.

To go from JIA to EWR the plane that we needed left around 3 AM. We were told we needed to be at the airport AT LEAST two hours ahead of that in order to go through security. In order to do that, we would have to leave our house around 11 PM to midnight. Try finding someone who wants to drop you off at that hour. There was a prolonged layover in Atlanta. We would land in Newark at 10 AM. We could not bring anything to eat or drink during the trip - or many other things that are not allowed on planes.

To go from JAX to NWK, the train left around 5:30 PM. We were told we should be there 30 minutes before departure. It is much easier to get someone to drop you off at that time of day. Once on the train, we did not have to get off until we got to Newark. No layover - OH, and we could bring food, drink and many other things not allowed on the plane. We also did not have to put on our seatbelts everytime the train stopped and started. We got to NWK at 10:30 AM.

Now, was the trip in the metal tube faster in the air ... I guess so - was the overall trip experience really any slower by rail - we didn't think so.

 

[Asher]

Convenience and comfort always has to be factored into a trip and time was not an issue. Looks like you made a good choice.

 

[tricia]

I guess it all depends on your definition of "faster".

While the time in the metal tube in the air may be less than the time in the metal tube on the rails ... what about the overall "trip"?

When we were looking into a trip to Newark (well we actually went to NY but rooms are cheaper in NJ) we looked at air and train. The time spent in the metal tube didn't compare -but, let me explain what we decided.

To go from JIA to EWR the plane that we needed left around 3 AM. We were told we needed to be at the airport AT LEAST two hours ahead of that in order to go through security. In order to do that, we would have to leave our house around 11 PM to midnight. Try finding someone who wants to drop you off at that hour. There was a prolonged layover in Atlanta. We would land in Newark at 10 AM. We could not bring anything to eat or drink during the trip - or many other things that are not allowed on planes.

To go from JAX to NWK, the train left around 5:30 PM. We were told we should be there 30 minutes before departure. It is much easier to get someone to drop you off at that time of day. Once on the train, we did not have to get off until we got to Newark. No layover - OH, and we could bring food, drink and many other things not allowed on the plane. We also did not have to put on our seatbelts everytime the train stopped and started. We got to NWK at 10:30 AM.

Now, was the trip in the metal tube faster in the air ... I guess so - was the overall trip experience really any slower by rail - we didn't think so.

Good choice for you, on this trip. However, Amtrak's arrival and departure times (in the middle of the night) are often much more problematic than air travel timing.

 

[MARC Rider]

The author of the article did factor in about 3 hours in addition to flight time to iclude travel to airport, check in formalities, etc. Personally, i'd add a little time to that, as I check in 2 hours early, because I was once burned, missing my flight, even though I arrived an hour and a half early.

My rule of thumb is that flying anywhere takes at least 4 to 5 hours. With a point to point average speed of 50 mph, that means that the train is strictly time competitive for trips 200 to 250 miles. That probably holds true for faster trains, too, because you do have to consider driving to the train station and waiting around. And while there are no check in formalities, I usually get to the station 30 to 60 minutes before train time to avoid nail biting suspense if I get stuck in a traffic jam on the way to the station.

Of course, many riders don't care if the trip takes an extra hour or two, and prefer the train because the experience is more pleasant -- seats are roomier, no turbulence, no unpleasnt changes in air pssure, etc. My personal limit, if I'm not dping it for the train experience, is 10 to 12 hours. I'd ride from Baltimore to Raliegh, but I'm not sure about Baltimore to Charlotte. But definitely from Baltimore to Richmond.

 

[Asher]

Up and down the West Coast except for LA- San Diego, planes over trains are by far faster, easier than rail unless you have a lot of time to spare.

 

[MARC Rider]

Up and down the West Coast except for LA- San Diego, planes over trains are by far faster, easier than rail unless you have a lot of time to spare.

I think I would add Oakland-Sacremento, and what about Portland-Seattle?

 

[jis]

I guess it all depends on your definition of "faster".

While the time in the metal tube in the air may be less than the time in the metal tube on the rails ... what about the overall "trip"?

When we were looking into a trip to Newark (well we actually went to NY but rooms are cheaper in NJ) we looked at air and train. The time spent in the metal tube didn't compare -but, let me explain what we decided.

To go from JIA to EWR the plane that we needed left around 3 AM. We were told we needed to be at the airport AT LEAST two hours ahead of that in order to go through security. In order to do that, we would have to leave our house around 11 PM to midnight. Try finding someone who wants to drop you off at that hour. There was a prolonged layover in Atlanta. We would land in Newark at 10 AM. We could not bring anything to eat or drink during the trip - or many other things that are not allowed on planes.

To go from JAX to NWK, the train left around 5:30 PM. We were told we should be there 30 minutes before departure. It is much easier to get someone to drop you off at that time of day. Once on the train, we did not have to get off until we got to Newark. No layover - OH, and we could bring food, drink and many other things not allowed on the plane. We also did not have to put on our seatbelts everytime the train stopped and started. We got to NWK at 10:30 AM.

Now, was the trip in the metal tube faster in the air ... I guess so - was the overall trip experience really any slower by rail - we didn't think so.

It also depends on which flight you pick. Just as an alternative you could have picked a United nonstop flight from JAX to EWR departing say at 7am arriving at 9:20 am or so. And if 5am at airport is unsuitable, you could take the 11:25am arriving at 1:53pm. Surely arriving at the airport at 9:25 am is not too onerous. The good thing about the 7am flight though is that it is an Airbus A320. The later flight is a regional jet.

So seems like you made a choice that was inferior in terms of total time required and including a prolonged stopover.

As good old Bob Dylan says YMMV and the variability depends partly on your choices.

 

[jebr]

It also depends on which flight you pick. Just as an alternative you could have picked a United nonstop flight from JAX to EWR departing say at 7am arriving at 9:20 am or so. And if 5am at airport is unsuitable, you could take the 11:25am arriving at 1:53pm. Surely arriving at the airport at 9:25 am is not too onerous. The good thing about the 7am flight though is that it is an Airbus A320. The later flight is a regional jet.

So seems like you made a choice that was inferior in terms of total time required and including a prolonged stopover.

As good old Bob Dylan says YMMV and the variability depends partly on your choices.

Definitely - and if you open up the options to include all NYC airports, there's quite a few options into JFK or LGA as well. With the train being an overnight journey as well, I'd probably be comparing roomette costs on the train over the cost of a coach seat on a flight. I've also never had an issue bringing most food on board - certainly snacks and the like can be brought through security and on board. Some liquids might need to be separated out, but even something like a PB&J sandwich should be fine. As for drinks, I usually bring an empty water bottle through security and then fill it up airside from a water fountain. I also generally don't have to worry about getting a ride - outside of a couple of very early morning flights, the city transit system is up and running to the airport, and the couple bucks for that is far better than pretty much any other option.

For me, the biggest downfall with Amtrak out of MSP is reliability. Sure, I could take Amtrak to Chicago and, if everything goes well, the timing wouldn't be significantly worse than flying (door-to-door, probably around 3-4 hours longer on the train.) But when the train is late relatively frequently, often by a few hours, the reliability of a flight starts looking much better.

 

[Qapla]

Let me add to my comments:

1. Regardless of plane or train, we still have an hour and a half drive to Jacksonville ... some sort of "transit", cab or rideshare would not be possible or would be cost prohibitive.
2. My daughter had "vouchers" for a particular airline - so flight times were limited
3. Our budget was limited so a Roomette was not in the offering
4. At the time we took this trip, there were NO airlines offering discounted fares
5. The train, riding coach, was enough cheaper than any of the flights listed at the time, that three people could have gone by train for the cost of two people going by plane
6. We were not in a "rush" so the pace of taking the train was fine with us
7. We did not want to leave a vehicle at the airport or depot since we were going to be gone for a week
8. We did not have to pay for luggage - and two people going for a week along with our electronics would have been more than carry on in a plane
9. The walk from the parking lot to the train in JAX is only about 200' ... not sure you could even get close to JIA from any parking area and be that close - I have walking difficulties
10. Our pre-booked rental car was not near any of the other airports in the NY/NJ area.
11. I DO NOT FLY - don't like heights and do not want to fly

 

[me_little_me]

As for drinks, I usually bring an empty water bottle through security and then fill it up airside from a water fountain.

FYI, I accidentally (I fly so little any more, I forgot about liquids) carried trough security in my bag a full plastic bottle of distilled water for my CPAP. My thought afterwards was (having been a volunteer for local sheriff's department doing courthouse security) that distilled water being so pure, it has nothing in it to tell them it exists. Our scanner showed a special color for chemicals and another for organic compounds. Distilled water has neither and H2O is probably invisible or is ignored by the machine. I don't have the guts to intentionally try it just in case they notice it and delay me.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

because I was once burned, missing my flight, even though I arrived an hour and a half early.

Just curious... how did that happen and at what airport?

 

[SarahZ]

1. I DO NOT FLY - don't like heights and do not want to fly

If you DO NOT FLY, why were you even comparing flying vs. taking the train? It's moot. You're going to take a train regardless, so why bother to compare them, other than to (loosely) arm yourself for a chance to list off all of the reasons a train is superior?

It's difficult to compare the two when you have all of the restrictions you listed. It's an anecdote, at best.

 

[Anderson]

@Qalpa: When was this? The idea of a flight leaving JAX (the airport) at 0300 is very odd to my mind under normal circumstances, especially en route to Atlanta.

 

[MARC Rider]

Just curious... how did that happen and at what airport?

At BWI on a Sunday in July, for Southwest Airlines. The lines at curbside check-in were unbelievable, so I went inside. That was even worse. When I finally checked my bag, the machine spit out a little notice that I was checking the bags very close to departure and the bags might be delayed. Then there was the security line. Once I finally got through that I raced down to the gate with my shoelaces untied just in time to see my plane backing away from the gate. The next flight they could book me for left four hours later, so I had a nice relaxing breakfast in the airport. I also had to buy a new early bird check-in, as my original one was flushed down the tubes with my missing the flight.

What was really amusing was that when I arrived at San Antonio, my bags had made the first flight and were waiting for me.

Usually, things aren't so bad, and one could really arrive an hour earlier and make the flight. But you never know, so better safe than sorry.

 

[Ryan]

I guess we can modify the “It depends...” to “... unless you don’t fly, then it’s irrelevant.”

My rule of thumb is leaving the house 2 hours before the flight time. I’m usually clear of security with more than an hour to spare, giving me time to grab a meal and board. This is based on living 10-15 minutes from BWI, Peking in the daily garage, shuttle bus to the terminal, quickly dropping my self tagged bag, and then rolling through the precheck line.

Obviously, your mileage will vary pending your proximity to the airport, the lines at your time of flight, and if you’re afraid to fly or not.

 

[MARC Rider]

It also depends on which flight you pick. Just as an alternative you could have picked a United nonstop flight from JAX to EWR departing say at 7am arriving at 9:20 am or so. And if 5am at airport is unsuitable, you could take the 11:25am arriving at 1:53pm. Surely arriving at the airport at 9:25 am is not too onerous. The good thing about the 7am flight though is that it is an Airbus A320. The later flight is a regional jet.

So seems like you made a choice that was inferior in terms of total time required and including a prolonged stopover.

As good old Bob Dylan says YMMV and the variability depends partly on your choices.

I actually prefer flights around 7 AM, meaning an arrival at the airport at 5 or 5:30. Traffic is lighter at that time, so less chance of being delayed on the Beltway. And if your flight gets messed up (say, mechanical problems with the aircraft), the airline has many more flight options to choose from to get you to your destination the same day.

 

[Qapla]

If you DO NOT FLY, why were you even comparing flying vs. taking the train? It's moot. You're going to take a train regardless, so why bother to compare them ...

My daughter had gone to NY with a friend a few months before this. They flew. The flights got messed up and the airline gave them some vouchers. My daughter wanted to go back to NY to do some things she did not get to do on the first trip. She did not want to go by herself so she asked me, "What would it take to get you on a plane?" I was willing to "try" if I could take some sort of sedative that would make it so I could manage to accompany her. While looking for flights with that airline she could not find any that had reasonable prices within her budget - even with the vouchers. She also could not find any affordable flights with any other carriers.

While looking for options, we took a look at Amtrak. Up to that time we had not taken a train before and were NOT "going to take a train regardless". We had not even thought of taking a train. While researching prices, and we're really not sure why, we decided to see what a train would cost. It was only after comparing the cost that we decided the train was a viable option.

It has only been after that trip that I have started riding the train.

It's difficult to compare the two when you have all of the restrictions you listed. It's an anecdote, at best.

Other than me not wanting to fly, what else on that list would preclude a plane and make the comparison "difficult"? We still live the same distance from JIA as we do from JAX. We always work from a budget ... we were not paying with credit cards. Someone needs to drop us off regardless of the mode of travel. We did not set the departure times. Even if we had flown, it would have been coach. Not having to pay for luggage and the walking distance were not "restrictions" ... just nice perks when it came to the train.

@Qalpa: When was this? The idea of a flight leaving JAX (the airport) at 0300 is very odd to my mind under normal circumstances, especially en route to Atlanta.

This was back in 2011, If I remember correctly. I'm not sure - but, I think the airline was American. We were using the Internet to price shop and book. We did the same for Amtrak. She was able to get a room/car deal through Expedia (best price for the deals) but, when she added a flight, not only were the options on airlines that she did not have the vouchers for, the total cost exceeded the combined price of the room/car deal and train tickets (round trip)

Prices and flight times may be different now. At the time, the price that came closest to the cost of taking Amtrak was the "redeye" that left around 3 AM.






Since that time, I have found that, since I like riding the train, I can travel a little more often than I used to - especially since I am fine riding coach. I used to drive if I went somewhere. At my age, that is tiring and I really don't want to put all those miles on my vehicle. If I have to rent a car, drive the miles, stay in a motel/hotel because I can't drive 24 hours straight, I might as well take the train and relax.

 

[neroden]

Interesting to see the mainstream media are writing about trains as practical transportation, not an "experiential" frill. It might be worthwhile to point her to all the passengers who ride the longer routes as practical transportation, even if flying is definitely faster.

Yeah. I think the "I don't fly" market is also underestimated. People who use trains as practical transportation because air is simply ruled out for them, whether because of fear of flying, medical conditions, dislike for the TSA, or "carbon emissions shame". I'm in the "I don't fly" category and there turn out to be a lot of us. Just medically diagnosable fear of flying apparently affects 6.5% of the population, which is about 2 million people.

"Train vs. Car" is the option for these people.

 

[jebr]

Other than me not wanting to fly, what else on that list would preclude a plane and make the comparison "difficult"? We still live the same distance from JIA as we do from JAX. We always work from a budget ... we were not paying with credit cards. Someone needs to drop us off regardless of the mode of travel. We did not set the departure times. Even if we had flown, it would have been coach. Not having to pay for luggage and the walking distance were not "restrictions" ... just nice perks when it came to the train.

When the starting point includes a fear of flying, most of the other negatives of flying will come screaming to the forefront, while the negatives of other modes of transportation may be glossed over more quickly.

Most people who live an hour and a half away from the airport likely wouldn't have someone willing to drop them off for a cost that's cheaper than parking near the airport or train station. They'd either have to drive and park, or have to catch a shuttle bus of some sort. People closer in may have more options as well - taxi/Uber/Lyft is reasonably priced, or they can take transit or SuperShuttle to the airport.

The timing issue is also very dependent on schedule - whatever flight is cheapest will vary each day, and so it might be the 7 AM flight or the 8 PM flight another day that makes it cheaper. There's also a lot of constraints that seem rather specific to this trip - most of the time the rental car is determined after deciding on where to fly/train into, and not particularly fixed. Same with hotels; especially with a car, it might be worth driving out to whatever your destination is and getting a hotel there or along the way, instead of needing to pay city/airport pricing for a hotel.

However, to me the biggest factor is that many people (probably the majority of people) would find a full overnight, in a coach seat, to either be a deal-breaker or a huge hurdle to overcome. For me, if I'm taking the train overnight in coach, it's because it's the only way there (or the only even remotely reasonably priced way to get there) outside of an overnight bus, and a roomette is also outside of my price range. For you, that doesn't seem to be much of an issue, or at least something that's worth dealing with to avoid flying.

That's why it's difficult to compare - many of the factors that make the train better for your instance simply don't hold up for many people who would be in a similar situation. They either wouldn't have some options available to them (having someone willing to drive them 1.5 hours each way to the airport relatively cheaply) or they'd have some more flexibility (staying in Long Island, for example, or renting the car from any airport.)

 

[crescent-zephyr]

At BWI on a Sunday in July, for Southwest Airlines. The lines at curbside check-in were unbelievable, so I went inside. That was even worse. When I finally checked my bag, the machine spit out a little notice that I was checking the bags very close to departure and the bags might be delayed. Then there was the security line. Once I finally got through that I raced down to the gate with my shoelaces untied just in time to see my plane backing away from the gate. The next flight they could book me for left four hours later, so I had a nice relaxing breakfast in the airport. I also had to buy a new early bird check-in, as my original one was flushed down the tubes with my missing the flight.

What was really amusing was that when I arrived at San Antonio, my bags had made the first flight and were waiting for me.

Usually, things aren't so bad, and one could really arrive an hour earlier and make the flight. But you never know, so better safe than sorry.

Thanks for the details. I play it pretty close when getting to airports and train stations.... I don’t think I’ve ever caught a flight at BWI so not sure how crowded they can get. I know I avoid Atlanta like crazy because of their long security lines.

 

[Ryan]

BWI can turn into a zoo, particularly during the summertime. The real kicker is TSA seems to be really reluctant to open up the A and C gate PreCheck lines (A/B/C all connect on the air side), so the B gate line can get long.

 

[Qapla]

When the starting point includes a fear of flying, most of the other negatives of flying will come screaming to the forefront, while the negatives of other modes of transportation may be glossed over more quickly.

The thing is, when we first started looking, the train was not even a consideration - we were checking flights ... not trains. The train didn't enter the picture until we had trouble finding a flight that fit her budget. We did not gloss over any negatives - we just don't view as "negative" the same things you view as negative.

Most people who live an hour and a half away from the airport likely wouldn't have someone willing to drop them off for a cost that's cheaper than parking near the airport or train station.

It's called family ... always willing to help

However, to me the biggest factor is that many people (probably the majority of people) would find a full overnight, in a coach seat, to either be a deal-breaker or a huge hurdle to overcome.

Hmmm .... I guess all those full coach cars of sleeping people are not in the majority - they are more like me

most of the time the rental car is determined after deciding on where to fly/train into, and not particularly fixed. Same with hotels .... have some more flexibility (staying in Long Island, for example, or renting the car from any airport.

Since we arrived on a Sunday, we did have to rent the car at EWR since the car rentals near NWK are closed on Sunday.

We didn't stay "in the city" ... we are country folks from Florida - we do not view driving across a state as small as NJ as "a long way to drive" and, since a friend of ours had recommended we stay in NJ instead of NY because it is much cheaper (he did a lot of traveling up there for business - and, yes, he flew), she found a deal in NJ. We actually stayed in South Plainfield ... nowhere near Newark. We didn't select the rental car pick-up location until we had decided to take the train.




Anyway, back to the article - like the title of the article says, "Train vs. Plane: And the Winner Is ... Well, It Depends"

I was just agreeing ... just because one method is better/faster/convenient/desirable for one person, does not mean it is the same for ALL people. It Depends

 

[MARC Rider]

"we are country folks from Florida - we do not view driving across a state as small as NJ as "a long way to drive""

I don't know. A fifty mile drive in rural Florida seems to me to be a lot different than a 50 mile drive in North Jersey.

"We actually stayed in South Plainfield ... nowhere near Newark."

Well, it's closer to Newark than Trenton. Metuchen seems to be the nearest train station with frequent service (NJT) into New York. It's pretty far from Manhattan (37 miles), if that's where you're headed. Google Maps shows it as a 54 minute drive with no traffic. Their recommended transit is a 2 hour bus ride. Anyway, I would consider it as part of the "Newark Metro Area" if such a thing existed.

 

[Asher]

I think I would add Oakland-Sacremento, and what about Portland-Seattle?

like I said everywhere except LA --San Diego. But then I should through in Ventura, Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo as decent train over plane destinations.