Terrorists! ALL OF YOU!

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This is good information....scary information, too. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. Guess we have to be very, very careful these days.
 
The added police force is definitely evident. I noticed several uniformed officers around the Auto Train when I was there a few weeks ago. The added presence is definitely being felt out west. While listening to All Things Considered on Friday on NPR, there was an interview with a railfan who had been railfanning at a UP diamond in west Texas. According to a UP spokesman all engineers have been asked to report individuals who are taking photos of trains in remote locations. The interviewee said that he was unofficially detained for several hours, and questioned by local police as well as the FBI. So definitely be careful when railfanning!
 
Batalllion, actualy I thought about you when this topic came up......since you are not officially an employee.......it is none of my business.......but I hope you have some sort of i.d. or credentials of some sort if you should be stopped and the only employee around is the one in 200 who doesn't know you.
 
I have a neighbor who lives upstairs (I live in a big multi-story apartment building) who yanked has 11-year-old son out of public school this past October when he (the kids father – my upstairs neighbor) was contacted by school officials for the “inappropriate behavior” of his son “possibly compromising security.” Apparently school officials felt the boy’s frequent questions about how technical things works (aircraft, airports, dams and locks, trains, nuclear reactors, etc.) were too probing and constituted a security threat. The boy is apparently doing well in a private school where curiosity is encouraged.
 
Security is a big issue in most schools now a days. All teachers and students have to wear identifaction tags, plus carry bus id's at my school. On top of that all doors are locked except for the one near the front office and we have two police officers on duty who stay at the school all day.

In the past year railfans have really been pushed to the sidelines and getting good photos or viewing equipment is a lot harder. At South Station, Amtrak/MBTA employees are extremely strict about not letting you out onto the platforms to view and take pictures. Now in the south where the security risk is less railroads might not be as strict, but I will give warning to those who go into restricted areas even if your with an employee. If a manager found out, you, the railfan, could get in major trouble and the employee could be fired.
 
In my school, we have I.d. cards with photos, and thats about all the security we have.

Out here, at NYP and even the smaller stations, I've not had problems with taking pictures. Although, I haven't really done so at NYP in a while, but will soon.

I think while important, people are a little over-zealous about the RR security. There's a fine line between terrorist and railfan. I guess at my age (14), I won't be looked at as suspiciouslly as say a 20+ yr. old person.
 
Don't make any assuptions. Age doesn't matter. My freind's 5 year old cousin got pulled over at the gate for search. Also, I would not worry about rail terrorism except places where many trains go through tunnels directly under cities like in the northeast.
 
The last time I was at Los Angeles Union Station, the increased police and security presence was very noticeable.

Recent Al-Qaeda threats have included American railroads.

My advice: be alert!
 
Amfleet said:
Don't make any assuptions. Age doesn't matter. My freind's 5 year old cousin got pulled over at the gate for search. Also, I would not worry about rail terrorism except places where many trains go through tunnels directly under cities like in the northeast.
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Or where they go by places such as chemical refineries and other sensitive sites out west.
 
Of course we are railfans.......and we are receivng this warning.....but what about an average tourist, who happens to be on a train and is just taking pictures of the train just because it is part of his total vacation experience.. He does not have the advantage of warnings such as these like we have. He could really get in trouble, and he could not articulate his railroad knowledge i.e. "talk his way out of it", the way some of us could.
 
There was an El-Al security official on the TV late last night explaining that the incident this past weekend does not indicate a security failure. The two sky marshals on board took care of the problem. He went on to explain that contrary to the "silly and futile" efforts in the U.S. where passengers and bags are scanned for weapons, El-Al looks for terrorists, not weapons. Americans talk about the knife more than the terrorist. The fact that the terrorist had a small knife is not the issue. El-Al has to figure out how the terrorist got through the security process not how his knife got on board. The El-Al security guy would not talk about their screening process, but he did say that lots of the stuff he's seen in U.S. airports -wanding old ladies and little kids, and taking away people's nail clippers - did not make much sense.

So, what's silly on the rails? It seems to me the constant presence of rail fans and their cameras is an aid to security not a threat. Amfleet is right: it doesn't matter how strict your security is... something will get through. It is better, therefore, to look to the real threats -dangerous people- not their tools and casual observers.
 
I travel a lot: usually by air. According to my little dairy, since June of 2001, airport passenger screening personnel have confiscated: 3 nail clippers, 2 blood pressure monitors (the small portable cuff type), one small bottle of mouth wash, 3 bottles of prescription medication, and a small flashlight. All pretty dangerous stuff. Occasionally, I am “selected” for a little extra scrutiny (partial disrobing) at the security check point, where I am required to sit or stand quietly as strangers examine my property on the x-ray belt. Like most frequent travelers, I have had things stolen from the x-ray belt while being “examined.” Since June of 2001, I’ve lost: 2 wallets with driver’s licenses, credit cards, and a total of $450 in cash, 1 calculator, 2 cell phones, and 1 laptop computer. The laptop theft was recent. I was entering the U.S. (from Singapore) through LAX two weeks ago where I was “selected” for extra scrutiny at security check point on my way to my domestic connecting flight. As I complained to the TSA (Transportation Security Administration) people that someone was walking off with my laptop from the x-ray belt, I was scolded by a TSA supervisor who reminded me of the “absolute requirement” that I sit perfectly still, remain silent, and do exactly as I am told while being examined. I continued to protest, and was eventually hustled off to an office where I sat and was occasionally questioned by police and other official-looking people who were not interested in the theft of my property. I was eventually released 4 hours later, filed a theft report with the TSA (yes, they have a form for theft incidents at security check points), and missed my flight. Here we see one of the many reasons I prefer the train over air travel: I get to keep my stuff. If too much of the airport security non-sense creeps into the train stations, then I guess I’ll have to stay home.
 
Amtrak Watcher said:
There was an El-Al security official on the TV late last night explaining that the incident this past weekend does not indicate a security failure. The two sky marshals on board took care of the problem. He went on to explain that contrary to the "silly and futile" efforts in the U.S. where passengers and bags are scanned for weapons, El-Al looks for terrorists, not weapons. Americans talk about the knife more than the terrorist. The fact that the terrorist had a small knife is not the issue. El-Al has to figure out how the terrorist got through the security process not how his knife got on board. The El-Al security guy would not talk about their screening process, but he did say that lots of the stuff he's seen in U.S. airports -wanding old ladies and little kids, and taking away people's nail clippers - did not make much sense.
So, what's silly on the rails? It seems to me the constant presence of rail fans and their cameras is an aid to security not a threat. Amfleet is right: it doesn't matter how strict your security is... something will get through. It is better, therefore, to look to the real threats -dangerous people- not their tools and casual observers.
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Well said Amtrak Watcher. I agree with you completely.
 
Amfleet:

Though your mom can not bring her needle point instruments on board, the man sitting next to her could plan an entire attack on the U.S. on his laptop computer, and direct the attacks via the seatback air-to-ground phone. El-Al looks for terrorists, not weapons. American airport security does exactly the opposite. So, your non-terrorist mom becomes the presumptive terrorist, while the terrorist sitting next to her up in business class is presumed innocent.
 
Amtrak Watcher,

Don't you also love how they make you take your laptop out of its case to send it through the x-ray when they do not give you anyplace to put it back in the case and when security and x-ray experts say it is unnecessary to do so. As for having stuff stolen from the belt, I feel for you as it is something I am damn near paranoid about having happen to me. If I'm traveling with someone I'll often send them through the machine 2 or 3 people ahead of me just so they can retrieve out luggage after I put it all through. The one time I was stopped for extra screening at the checkpoint (while still privets) I told the guy that if he did not let me retreive my laptop first I'd tie him up in litigation until he died, he let me get it first. I just love the airport insecurity.
 
I haven't traveled on the airplane since the 9/11 attacks. But even before 9/11, every time I passed through Burbank airport, the security people would stop me and make me turn my digital camera on, I guess to show them that it was real and working. The last time I went through security and the lady wanted the camera turned on, I said okay and I told her I would even take a picture of her and show it to her. She was so busy smiling for me to take a picture of her that she didn't even notice the person behind me put a sewing kit on the little table, pass through the metal detector, and pick it up on the other side. Talk about priorities mixed up! :D
 
I know they wanna be careful with anyone near rails but I think they should encourange the fanners to help out watch the rails for the bad guys. There's alot of us out there everyday; we can help our country by watching all around the rails.

Im kinda afraid to go near Commerce Metrolink station that is across from BNSF's yard. Ya know, a man, and his lady and a 7 yr old boy (sometimes me and my son play our gameboys instead of photographing!) look REALLY suspicious.
 
(i'm at school so I don't feel safe logging in, but..)

I go to the Alexandria train station every Friday...I think at stations we are a bit more safe than we would be in a secluded yard somewhere, just as the article says: UP train crews have been instructed to keep an eye out for people with cameras and notepads in secluded places that "normal" people wouldn't go to. We're fine at the stations, as long as we don't do anything questionable (and don't ask who gets to do the questioning...)
 
To hell with the Department of Homeland Security.

To hell with America becoming a police state.

To hell with enemies of the U.S. Constitution, both foreign and domestic.

"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin, 1755, to the Pennsylvania State Legislature

"I prefer liberty with danger than peace with slavery." - Jean Jaqueas Rousseau

"Freedom is fragile and must be protected. To sacrifice it, even as a temporary measure, is to betray it." - Germaine Greer

"In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was nobody left to speak up." - Reverend Martin Niemoller, Germany, 1930's

"The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it." - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all." - H. L. Mencken

"I would remind you, that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And... moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." - Barry Goldwater

Thanks for reading,

Mike
 
Guest_Tristan said:
(i'm at school so I don't feel safe logging in, but..)
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Why not? I do it all the time, I just log out after each session, and I'm always at the same computer. I'm not sure, but I think Battalion does it also.
 
tp49:

Yes, my laptop very much enjoys the treatment it receives at security check points. In an attempt to protect its delicate workings, I placed it on top of my folded coat once, only to have the security people remove it to place it alone on the belt as I was lectured about the need to have the laptop completely isolated on the belt.

I went through the security check points at both Little Rock and Dallas yesterday. Both times TSA people were very carefully slowing the stream of passengers going through the magnetometer so that each passenger’s property emerged on the x-ray belt at precisely the same time the passenger emerged from the magnetometer arch. There were even sloppy attempts to let passengers retrieve their property from the x-ray belt *before* submitting to “extra scrutiny.” Surprised by the new procedures, I asked a friendly-looking TSA supervisor at Little Rock what was going on. He explained that there have been “massive numbers” of thefts at the check points and the airlines (which have been taking the bulk of the complaints from angry passengers) have been “complaining bitterly” to the TSA about them. My experience evidently represents only the tip of an iceberg. I still prefer the train as long as it affords me the opportunity to avoid all the silliness.
 
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