Superliner Refresh? Capitol Limited Suggestions, etc.

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Even the newest Superliners are old enough to buy alcohol. The older ones are nearly 40 years old...older than the oldest Heritage Fleet equipment Amtrak started with in 1971. I'd say we're past due for a major equipment order...and hopefully this time we can find a competent supplier!
 
Or at least free up some Superliner equipment by using the V2 order and a few amfleets for the City of NO. Another reason the V2 order shouldn’t be canceled. Of all the trains the CNO would be the easiest to switch over. At least it would buy “some” time for the western LDTs that truly need SLs now.
 
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Or at least free up some Superliner equipment by using the V2 order and a few amfleets for the City of NO. Another reason the V2 order shouldn’t be canceled. Of all the trains the CNO would be the easiest to switch over. At least it would buy “some” time for the western LDTs that truly need SLs now.
I actually think that the Capitol Limited is a better candidate for a switch to single-level equipment than the CONO, for two reasons. Firstly, the Cap is the only Superliner train serving WAS, so a switch to single-level cars would negate the need for staff in D.C. trained to work on Superliners, and secondly, if it were single-level it could possibly even be extended north to NYC. But I admit that I am really dreaming with that second one.
 
I actually think that the Capitol Limited is a better candidate for a switch to single-level equipment than the CONO, for two reasons. Firstly, the Cap is the only Superliner train serving WAS, so a switch to single-level cars would negate the need for staff in D.C. trained to work on Superliners, and secondly, if it were single-level it could possibly even be extended north to NYC. But I admit that I am really dreaming with that second one.
The original (B&O) Capitol Limited did in fact serve Philadelphia (listening, PhillyAmtrakFan?) and New York (well, Jersey City) into the mid-1950s.
 
And now that I think about it, if the Capitol ran up the NEC, it could be marketed as a sort of sister train to the Cardinal, while the Hoosier State is the shorter distance version. Like how we have the Silver Star, Silver Meteor, and Palmetto sort of branded as one thing.
 
I actually think that the Capitol Limited is a better candidate for a switch to single-level equipment than the CONO, for two reasons. Firstly, the Cap is the only Superliner train serving WAS, so a switch to single-level cars would negate the need for staff in D.C. trained to work on Superliners, and secondly, if it were single-level it could possibly even be extended north to NYC. But I admit that I am really dreaming with that second one.
Agree...the Cap should be converted to Viewliner's, for the reason you cited, but also, more importantly, allow it to be combined with the Pennsylvanian at Pittsburgh...
 
Two quick reasons for making Capitol single level.  The first is the above reason of allowing thru cars Capitol <> Pennsylvanian. 2  ==================  Can also allow for thru connecting cars to the southbound  Meteor. That gives CHI - TOL one car guaranteed train service to Florida.
 
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 Agree...the Cap should be converted to Viewliner's, for the reason you cited, but also, more importantly, allow it to be combined with the Pennsylvanian at Pittsburgh...
You don't even need the Cap to be single-level to run through cars. Just put 'em behind the Trans-Dorm and you'd be all set. If memory serves, that's what they did with the old Crescent/Sunset Limited transcontinental through sleeper. :)
 
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Two quick reasons for making Capitol single level.  The first is the above reason of allowing thru cars Capitol <> Pennsylvanian. 2  ==================  Can also allow for thru connecting cars to the southbound  Meteor. That gives CHI - TOL one car guaranteed train service to Florida.
Superliners can run on the Meteor south of D.C, anyway, so why can't they just transfer a Trans-Dorm between the two trains and have a mixed consist south of WAS? Or don't even bother with that and just run a single level sleeper and/or coach for through-service cars. Either way, the current equipment on the Cap isn't the issue.
 
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Unless I miss my guess, when the Crescent and Sunset Limited were running a through transcontinental sleeper there were no trans-dorms; they weren't built until the Superliner IIs began arriving in 1993. Back then they used Santa Fe Hi-Levels for transition cars. While what you (cpotisch) are proposing is workable from a technical standpoint, in practice Amtrak personnel get the heebie-jeebies about letting passengers run around in and through crew space...and not without some reason.

I like the idea of converting the Capitol Limited to single-level equipment and extending it from Washington to NYP as well as adding through cars from Pittsburgh to NYP via Harrisburg and Philadelphia. Very workable from a traffic and rail standpoint if only we had sufficient equipment and a management which was motivated to make best use of it.

Edit To Add: At the same time, truncate the Cardinal to WAS-CHI and return it to Superliner equipment (unless the maintenance savings are big enough to justify keeping it single-level). A Sightseer Lounge on that route would be a big plus. Then consider the advantages of having a real dining car on the NEC between NYP and WAS during meal hours. Winner all around, IMHO.
 
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Unless I miss my guess, when the Crescent and Sunset Limited were running a through transcontinental sleeper there were no trans-dorms; they weren't built until the Superliner IIs began arriving in 1993. Back then they used Santa Fe Hi-Levels for transition cars. While what you (cpotisch) are proposing is workable from a technical standpoint, in practice Amtrak personnel get the heebie-jeebies about letting passengers run around in and through crew space...and not without some reason.
You are correct. They used Hi-Level step-down coaches instead of Trans-Dorms. But either way, even if it is too big of an issue to run single-level cars on a bi-level train because those passengers would have to walk through the crew section, why not just run the Trans-Dorm as the through car the whole way? Put the crew in what is normal section of the Trans-Dorm, put through passengers in the revenue rooms of the Trans-Dorm, and then put Meteor-only passengers in all the other cars.
 
Still think the Superliner's should serve only the transcons or at least only the 'western' trains.   Would allow longer consists and hopefully daily service on the Sunset, from the free'd up equipment.  I would go even further, and take the Superliner's from the Auto Train, too....
 
Still think the Superliner's should serve only the transcons or at least only the 'western' trains.   Would allow longer consists and hopefully daily service on the Sunset, from the free'd up equipment.  I would go even further, and take the Superliner's from the Auto Train, too....
I hear you and agree with all of that *except* for the AT. That train typically consists of 18 or so Superliners, in addition to 30+ auto racks. Even if there were enough single-level cars to outfit the Auto Train, each consist would be way too long to handle, AND Amtrak would be stuck with a bunch of oddball custom AT Superliners. There are six Deluxe Sleepers (all bedrooms on the upper-level), four Auto Train lounges (former dining cars with special booths and tables on the upper and lower levels), and one special SSL with nothing but tables on the upper-level. That last one is configured that way so that they can serve extra passengers if there are too many people for the *three* dining cars.

TLDR: Auto Train is insane and it would be difficult to change up the equipment. :)
 
Amtrak first needs to get enough LD single level cars to expand present single level trains to meet demand that will come with proper advertising.   Then next when it gets additional single levels convert Capitol then City of New Orleans to single level trains.  Take the Superliners from these substitutions and add them to the left over Superliner trains.  As well make the Eagle daily to LAX.  That will almost eliminate the need for Superliner maintenance at WASH except for necessary parts to ferry Auto train supers to Beech. Maybe even take the Sunset's Supers and use single levels SAS <> NOL ?  That will eliminate NOL as a Superliner maintenance base !

Our posters need to remember that the inventory of useable Supers will only decrease over time due to what ever reasons.  That sinks the Cardinal, Capitol, & CNO from eventually using them anyway !!
 
Even the newest Superliners are old enough to buy alcohol. The older ones are nearly 40 years old...older than the oldest Heritage Fleet equipment Amtrak started with in 1971.
To my knowledge, the oldest cars acquired by Amtrak were ex-NYC Diners built during '47. In fact, several of those cars joined the HEP'd "Heritage Fleet".

As built, those cars had both straight and "Banquette" tables. Of course, after Amtrak got through with "H-ing" them, the only way to know their NYC origin was a center car lightong strip.

'71-'47 sounds like twenty four years.
 
I didn't have a roster of Heritage cars, so I was being conservative...the oldest which a streamlined car could possibly be (1935) would be 36 years. I'm sure that you're correct.
 
Unless I miss my guess, when the Crescent and Sunset Limited were running a through transcontinental sleeper there were no trans-dorms; they weren't built until the Superliner IIs began arriving in 1993. Back then they used Santa Fe Hi-Levels for transition cars. While what you (cpotisch) are proposing is workable from a technical standpoint, in practice Amtrak personnel get the heebie-jeebies about letting passengers run around in and through crew space...and not without some reason.

I like the idea of converting the Capitol Limited to single-level equipment and extending it from Washington to NYP as well as adding through cars from Pittsburgh to NYP via Harrisburg and Philadelphia. Very workable from a traffic and rail standpoint if only we had sufficient equipment and a management which was motivated to make best use of it.

Edit To Add: At the same time, truncate the Cardinal to WAS-CHI and return it to Superliner equipment (unless the maintenance savings are big enough to justify keeping it single-level). A Sightseer Lounge on that route would be a big plus. Then consider the advantages of having a real dining car on the NEC between NYP and WAS during meal hours. Winner all around, IMHO.
I disagree with the idea of having both Capitol/Pennsy through cars AND an extended Capitol to NYP. In my opinion, you really don't need that much through service from Chicago to New York. And I also think it would get pretty confusing for new passengers to understand how it's one train between Chicago and Pittsburgh but then with one of the options you're car splits off and ends up on another train, but still ends up getting to the same destination and follows the same route NYP-PHL. I just think there's too much overlap and too much nuance to it for those both to work.
 
I disagree with the idea of having both Capitol/Pennsy through cars AND an extended Capitol to NYP. In my opinion, you really don't need that much through service from Chicago to New York. And I also think it would get pretty confusing for new passengers to understand how it's one train between Chicago and Pittsburgh but then with one of the options you're car splits off and ends up on another train, but still ends up getting to the same destination and follows the same route NYP-PHL. I just think there's too much overlap and too much nuance to it for those both to work.
This time, I agree with you.  The Cap should end at Washington.  They would either have to wye it before or after Washington, or run backwards for the entire route from WAS to NYP...it's bad enough doing that just from Philly to New York on the Pennsylvanian.  They could run the CAP thru to points south, but for schedule reliability, I don't think that's a good idea, either...
 
This time, I agree with you.  The Cap should end at Washington.  They would either have to wye it before or after Washington, or run backwards for the entire route from WAS to NYP...it's bad enough doing that just from Philly to New York on the Pennsylvanian.  They could run the CAP thru to points south, but for schedule reliability, I don't think that's a good idea, either...
You are correct/  However if a 4+ hour connection was planned then reliability of a southbound Crescent or Silver would be an attractive option.
 
You are correct/  However if a 4+ hour connection was planned then reliability of a southbound Crescent or Silver would be an attractive option.
With a four+ hour layover....I can't see the point of running it 'thru'...better to spend that time touring around a bit, or even in the station lounge, IMHO
 
With a four+ hour layover....I can't see the point of running it 'thru'...better to spend that time touring around a bit, or even in the station lounge, IMHO
I agree. Well there is a seven hour or so layover in San Antonio with the Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle through cars, and that still works pretty well, so I’m not really sure that a several hour layover necessarily doesn’t work when it comes to through service. I think that there would be a big market for a one seat/room ride from Florida to Chicago, even if there were a long stop in WAS. Passengers could leave their stuff in their room or at their seat, hop off, walk around, see some of the sites, etc, and not have any of the hassle of a connection. The benefit of through cars or through service is not really speed, but rather convenience. Point is, I don’t think a super fast connection is really necessary for the purpose this would serve.
 
Florida to CHI thru car service ?  Once again some are worrying only about end points.  Capitol has many stops along the route that once had Florida service. all the way to major cities such as Pittsburgh.  Detroit and adjoining persons certainly could drive to TOL.  And LSL persons from BUF, CLE could connect at TOL. 
 
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