Sumitomo/Siemens Contract for 137 Cars (former bi-levels)

Discussion in 'Amtrak Rail Discussion' started by afigg, Sep 27, 2012.

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  1. May 10, 2018 #1076

    Eric S

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    Eric S

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    Maybe a few months ago, someone linked to a presentation that showed the Midwest cars being delivered from mid-2020 through early-2023.
     
  2. May 11, 2018 #1077

    CSXfoamer1997

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    I've been wondering all this time, why did they switch from an order of bi-levels to single levels?

    If you ask me, it kind of makes no sense, because think of when you mix single-levels with bi-levels. Besides, as you may know, bi-levels have more passenger capacity.
     
  3. May 11, 2018 #1078

    RPC

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    Well, the original order was for bi-levels - the vendor had an epic fail at buff test, then took years to decide they couldn't actually build them. The choice at this point is between getting the single-level cars (essentially Brightline coaches with traps) quickly or having Siemens engineer a bi-level from scratch (estimate ~3 years).
     
  4. May 11, 2018 #1079

    railiner

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    I haven't been following this long thread except here and there... so please pardon me for asking...if the planned design failed, why couldn't they just 'dust off' the last bi-level California Car, or Superliner design, and build more of those, instead of 3 more years to engineer an all new, untested design? [​IMG]
     
  5. May 11, 2018 #1080

    CCC1007

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    The California cars currently in service don’t meet the specifications laid out by the consortium of states.
     
  6. May 11, 2018 #1081

    railiner

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    What are the differences, and couldn't they be modified somewhat without a drastic re-engineering?
     
  7. May 11, 2018 #1082

    CCC1007

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    Its my understanding that they would need to loose 9 tons, be fully ADA compliant, both down and up stairs, and retain the shape of the passenger compartment in the event of an end on crash.
     
  8. May 11, 2018 #1083

    railiner

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    Isn't ADA accessability to the lower level seating and restrooms sufficient in the present cars? And it seems unrealistic to expect to lose that much weight and not sacrifice strength....
     
  9. May 11, 2018 #1084

    CCC1007

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    Again, just my understanding of the situation that led up to the structural failure only one ton short of passing...
     
  10. May 11, 2018 #1085

    Ziv

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    ADA requirements trump most other aspects of design now. Unless your cars are grandfathered in and as the years go by, fewer and fewer of them will be.

    And, yes, common sense would tend to indicate that decreasing weight by 9 tons would make meeting the buff test standard very difficult without spending more money on advanced design or more expensive materials. But if the acquisition board doesn't know what they are doing they can demand anything they want and then blame the supplier when the supplier tries their best and falls short. If each car weighs 9 tons less then the acceleration figures would have made a noticeable change in scheduled times for routes with a lot of stops, but lighter generally means less robust or more expensive.

    Flip side of the coin, Nippon Sharyo knew the bid was going to be very tough to deliver and made it anyway.

     
  11. May 17, 2018 #1086

    Metra Electric Rider

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    As I understand it the older bi-level designs in addition to not meeting crush tests and ADA requirements (which are, in and of themselves, separate items), the old designs were licensed as it was and weren't able to be relicensed (as in getting a license to produce a copyright design) - and out of date of course.
     
  12. May 17, 2018 #1087

    jis

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    The old design does meet the crush test standard for trailer cars since that has not changed in over 50 years. So your understanding is at least partly wrong.
     
  13. May 18, 2018 #1088

    railiner

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    And doesn't Bombardier hold the old Budd and Pullman Standard design right's?
     
  14. May 18, 2018 #1089

    bcanedy

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    You’re thinking of the Superliner plans. The California Cars were built by Morrison-Knudsen / Amerail for the first generation and Alstom for the second generation. I’m not sure who owns those designs, but the Nippon-Sharyo cars would have been the third generation of California Cars.
     
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  15. Jun 7, 2018 #1090

    jrud

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    The May NGEC minutes are out. The only real news appears to be the progress is being made on building the first carshell, and on the design of the cab and cafe cars. http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Documents/305%20activities%20report%20-%20monthly%205-31-18.docx

    Note that toward the end of the minutes they say that a Request for Information is being prepared by Amtrak for passenger cars. This is in addition to the RFP for locomotives.

    BTW - a MARC train with Charger #86 just went by my Metro rail train as it headed into DC on the Camden line.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2018
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  16. Jun 10, 2018 #1091

    seat38a

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    Are you talking about the CAB cars? If so, would adding a second engine or a Cabbage Car solve this? Is this by Brightline is running with two Chargers?
     
  17. Jun 10, 2018 #1092

    jis

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    No. I was not talking of cab cars in that comment.
     
  18. Jul 8, 2018 #1093

    jrud

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2018
  19. Jul 12, 2018 #1094

    jrud

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  20. Jul 30, 2018 #1095

    seat38a

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    I mentioned this in another post also but according to the longtime conductor on the Surfliner, she said the plan at the moment is to deploy the single level equipment up in NorCal and redeploy the State owned Surfliner Cars from NorCal down to SoCal for use on the Surfliner service. Not sure about the California Cars currently used up in NorCal.
     
  21. Jul 31, 2018 #1096

    railiner

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    Whichever, it would seem to make sense to keep all of a type together in one maintenance base, I suppose....
     
  22. Aug 2, 2018 #1097

    Metra Electric Rider

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    So do we have a concrete delivery date yet? I'm excited to see them start arriving here in the Midwest!
     
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  23. Aug 2, 2018 #1098

    CCC1007

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    My understanding of the timeline for the first deliveries is 2020-2021.
     
  24. Aug 15, 2018 #1099

    MisterUptempo

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    If all remains on schedule, the first car will be delivered to Caltrans in March, 2020. The first IDOT/Midwest car to be delivered in July, 2020. The final IDOT/Midwest car is scheduled for March, 2023 delivery, and Caltrans gets their final car in September, 2023.

    Also, just a quick update. From the August 14, 2018 Section 305 Executive Board meeting, the following-

    [​IMG]

    The full report can be found here - http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Documents/305%20Exec%20Brd%20minutes%20%20-8-14-18%20DRAFT.doc

    For anyone who might be able to access it, Revision B1 of the 305-003 single-level specifications was recently released. I'd be curious how much the specs may have been altered to accommodate Siemens.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2018
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  25. Aug 16, 2018 #1100

    NSC1109

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    Just read the full file. Looks like there will be traps for the cars after all. I'm curious to see how the door/trap combo will look in reality compared to the prototype images we've seen.
     

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