Siemens Caltrans/IDOT Venture design, engineering, testing and delivery (2012-1Q 2024)

[CraigDK]

Thanks for posting it.

No problems. I am not sure when they placed it online, but I was surprised no one else beat me to it.

 

[CraigDK]

Several thoughts.

1. Siemens actually delivered the Brightline cars earlier than contracted.

2. Siemens may be able to deliver this order early as well. Wonder if Siemens will get any type of incentive payment if it delivers the cars early ?

3. Expect that a certain number of new cars both standard couplers and the semi - permanent coupled ones will have to go to Pueblo for HSR testing as the Brightline cars have yet to be tested to 125 + 10%. Probably behind both P-42s and SC-44s ?

4. Wonder when the replacement SC-44 for the PNW wreck will be built ?

1 & 2. It is certainly possible that they could be delivered early, but who knows. If anyone would pay extra to Siemens for it, I would think it would be Sumitomo.

3. Yes...Slide 13, early 2020.

4. They also posted a slide show for the SC-44s. It does not mention anything that suggest a replacement has been ordered...

 

[jis]

The SC-44 slideset is quite interesting too.

My understanding is that when Brightline builds out to Orlando, there will be a second bigger service facility at Orlando. That will be the only facility capable of handling the longer Orlando trains. The West Palm Beach facility will service the shorter local trains and trains that will be used for the Miami - West Palm Beach commuter service on the so called North East Corridor of Miami, that Brightline is negotiating to get contract for running.

Also remember that Siemens already has commitment to deliver 5 more trainsets with 8 cars per set and 3 additional cars for the current 5 sets to Brightline by sometime in 2020 too. Brightline will probably require 125mph certification for the cars by late 2019 early 2020 too, if they want to run ghost service to full schedule for a few months to Orlando before letting passengers on for an inauguration of service in late 2020/early 2021. Actually Caltrans and IDOT can do fine with just 110mph certification for the time being. It will be a while before they will have an opportunity to operate at 125mph.

My understanding based on pure hearsay is that if the Commuter Operation thing comes through Brightline will place additional equipment order, funded partly by Miami-Dade and Broward Counties to serve in Commuter Service. Timeframe is unknown at present.

 

[Steve4031]

I’ve waited years for new cars in the Midwest , I can do two more.

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[jrud]

There are certainly a large percentage of cars with only 2 doors. Maximizing interior room must be the highest priority.

A number of Caltrans Chargers remain to be delivered. I would think that at least seven of these might not have spoilers/ski jumps to match the new trainsets.

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[Northeastern292]

Thanks for posting it.

That is very interesting. So even in the Midwest sets they will have segments that are semi-permanently coupled with the better gangways!

No business class cars for California.

Not surprised on this. The new cars are a new generation, so mixing and matching won't be as easy or as frequent.

I wonder if this also has something to do with a move towards digital trainline/door control? I've heard that's one of the things being discussed.

Also, I remember hearing about trainline Ethernet. Someone needs to explain if that's part of the digital train system.

My push this year is to see Amtrak make progress in ordering a ton of Siemens cars to use on the full corridor-length Northeast Regional trains (not the ones that start or end in NYC) with a goal to order 1000 of them. 750 in a short haul seating arrangement and 250 in a long haul seating arrangement. Some Northeast Regional trains should be easily 12-14 cars long.

Yes, feel free to call me nuts.

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[Steve4031]

Actually Amtrak would benefit from a standardized fleet. Seimans would be a good start.

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[john small berries]

There are certainly a large percentage of cars with only 2 doors. Maximizing interior room must be the highest priority.

A number of Caltrans Chargers remain to be delivered. I would think that at least seven of these might not have spoilers/ski jumps to match the new trainsets.

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Why would Caltrans cut off their nose to spite their face and render 7 of the locomotives that would require special measures for the high level cars? Better to have a homogeneous fleet that can be assigned without extra concern about car assignments?

 

[frequentflyer]

Why the semi permanent couple arrangement? Is that why there are no doors between the cars?

 

[jrud]

Why the semi permanent couple arrangement? Is that why there are no doors between the cars?

I checked and the wheelchair lifts are on the IDOT business/economy cars and on the cafe cars. That was in another report. So every train will have one or, probably, both a business/economy and cafe car. As you pointed out, people and wheelchair movement between the cars can be made easier with semipermanent coupled cars as on Brightline. Your going to always have coach cars in your consist, so they are logical to include in any pairing. And semipermanently coupled cars can be more stable at speed. IDOT can get some of the advantages of semipermanently coupled trains without any real-world impact on the flexibility desired in the Midwest by having just coach-cafe and coach-business/economy pairs.

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[jrud]

There are certainly a large percentage of cars with only 2 doors. Maximizing interior room must be the highest priority.

A number of Caltrans Chargers remain to be delivered. I would think that at least seven of these might not have spoilers/ski jumps to match the new trainsets.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

Why would Caltrans cut off their nose to spite their face and render 7 of the locomotives that would require special measures for the high level cars? Better to have a homogeneous fleet that can be assigned without extra concern about car assignments?

For esthetic and, perhaps more importantly, aerodynamic reasons with the cab car leading. I’m actually mostly curious to see what Caltrans does as they have already limited flexibility with the semipermanently coupled trainsets. I’d be tempted to eliminate the spoiler on at least seven Chargers.

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[DSS&A]

Hi,

"Inquiring minds would like to know"... How does "economy seating" differ from business and standard coach seating? Do these use folding chairs as seats.....lol.

 

[jis]

I don't know what the intention is in California, but for example on the Eurostar you get two levels of Premium Class accommodation - one that includes light snack type food and the other that is a more elaborate First Class affair. The former is called Standard Premium and the latter Business Premium or some such. Both are 2-1 seating. Then there is the steerage which is 2-2 seating called Standard I think and no complementary anything AFAIR.

 

[bretton88]

I don't know what the intention is in California, but for example on the Eurostar you get two levels of Premium Class accommodation - one that includes light snack type food and the other that is a more elaborate First Class affair. The former is called Standard Premium and the latter Business Premium or some such. Both are 2-1 seating. Then there is the steerage which is 2-2 seating called Standard I think and no complementary anything AFAIR.

Interesting, why would California decide to not order any business class? That seems odd to eliminate.

 

[Eric S]

Business Class is not offered on Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin trains, right?

 

[KmH]

Right.

 

[daybeers]

My push this year is to see Amtrak make progress in ordering a ton of Siemens cars to use on the full corridor-length Northeast Regional trains (not the ones that start or end in NYC) with a goal to order 1000 of them. 750 in a short haul seating arrangement and 250 in a long haul seating arrangement. Some Northeast Regional trains should be easily 12-14 cars long.

Yes, feel free to call me nuts.

That would be amazing, but I'm pretty sure we won't see new Amtrak cars outside of the Viewliner order for a while.

 

[DSS&A]

The business class is 2-1 seating, standard seating is 2-2, so one logical conclusion would be that economy is 3-2 seating. Although, I recall the new CEO making statements that one advantage of railroad travel is comfortable seating with NO 3-2 seating. So Economy class is still an unkown dwtail at this time.

 

[Northeastern292]

My push this year is to see Amtrak make progress in ordering a ton of Siemens cars to use on the full corridor-length Northeast Regional trains (not the ones that start or end in NYC) with a goal to order 1000 of them. 750 in a short haul seating arrangement and 250 in a long haul seating arrangement. Some Northeast Regional trains should be easily 12-14 cars long.

Yes, feel free to call me nuts.

That would be amazing, but I'm pretty sure we won't see new Amtrak cars outside of the Viewliner order for a while.

Unless there's a political shift, true. But still, noise does have to be made.
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[Northeastern292]

The business class is 2-1 seating, standard seating is 2-2, so one logical conclusion would be that economy is 3-2 seating. Although, I recall the new CEO making statements that one advantage of railroad travel is comfortable seating with NO 3-2 seating. So Economy class is still an unkown dwtail at this time.

Three-class service in the Midwest? This is news to me.
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[jrud]

The business class is 2-1 seating, standard seating is 2-2, so one logical conclusion would be that economy is 3-2 seating. Although, I recall the new CEO making statements that one advantage of railroad travel is comfortable seating with NO 3-2 seating. So Economy class is still an unkown dwtail at this time.

Three-class service in the Midwest? This is news to me.
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The February Trains article calls them “Coach/business but the slides say Business/economy. Coach seems more likely.

 

[Ziv]

A thousand new cars is what a lot of us would love to see, but given the facts on the ground, I would be happy to see the CAF order get extended by just 18 months. There are supposed to be 25 new sleeper cars delivered eventually. I think simply adding 36 more sleepers would make a nice change for the better. And it could cost as little as $100Mn spread out over 2 business years. I know there are posters who understand the numbers much better than me, but it seems like making the Capital Limited a ViewLiner train would allow the SuperLiner cars to be moved to the Western LD routes. I know it is just a fantasy, but it would be cool if there were two Empire Builders departing Chicago and Seattle every day. Chicago departures at 0930 and 1530 and Seattle departures at 0940 and 1640...

Yeah, won't happen. But it would make the Glacier portion of the trip even more interesting. I wonder how much of an increase in short trip use would happen along the route if Hi Liners knew there were more EB options available. I guess all of us have the routes we love the most.

My push this year is to see Amtrak make progress in ordering a ton of Siemens cars to use on the full corridor-length Northeast Regional trains (not the ones that start or end in NYC) with a goal to order 1000 of them. 750 in a short haul seating arrangement and 250 in a long haul seating arrangement. Some Northeast Regional trains should be easily 12-14 cars long.

Yes, feel free to call me nuts.

That would be amazing, but I'm pretty sure we won't see new Amtrak cars outside of the Viewliner order for a while.

Unless there's a political shift, true. But still, noise does have to be made.

Sent from my Moto Z2 Play using Amtrak Forum mobile app

 

[me_little_me]

Hi,

"Inquiring minds would like to know"... How does "economy seating" differ from business and standard coach seating? Do these use folding chairs as seats.....lol.

No seats provided. You bring your own chair.

 

[Steve4031]

It would make sense imho to make cnol and Cl view liner trains. This could create a temporary surplus of superliner equipment which would allow for an overhaul of the fleet, including hvac and bathrooms. Then some services could be made daily or train sets increased in capacity.

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[jis]

Where are all those Coaches needed to make CONO and CL single level trains, coming from? For that matter, where are the Sleepers and lounge Cars coming from?