Springfield Line PTC

Discussion in 'Amtrak Rail Discussion' started by lordsigma, Dec 21, 2018.

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  1. Dec 21, 2018 #1

    lordsigma

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    lordsigma

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    As of this morning, ACSES is live on the New Haven - Springfield Line.
     
  2. Dec 22, 2018 #2

    twropr

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    Are any of the CTrail trains operating under ACSES rules?

    Andy
     
  3. Dec 22, 2018 #3

    Thirdrail7

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    It is in effect for Amtrak trains.
     
  4. Dec 22, 2018 #4

    Acela150

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    Wouldn't the Geeps and MBTA coaches that are used on CTRail already be ACSES Equipped?? 
     
  5. Dec 22, 2018 #5

    Amtrak706

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    How have they been running at 110 for the past few months without ACSES?
     
  6. Dec 22, 2018 #6

    lordsigma

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    From what I’ve heard locally they are operable on the CTrail commuter trains also.
     
  7. Dec 22, 2018 #7

    jis

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    I thought all that you needed was 110 capable cab signal to do so. ACSES was mandatory only over 125mph. I don't believe the 110 speed limit on the Empire Corridor was reduced either pending availability of ACSES.
     
  8. Dec 22, 2018 #8

    Amtrak706

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    That’s correct but I thought the rule was modified to now require PTC. Maybe it goes into effect when PTC does on the 31st.
     
  9. Dec 22, 2018 #9

    Thirdrail7

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    I repeat: the bulletin that instituted ACSES rules on the territory only applies to Amtrak trains.

    Unless something changes, that rule won't take effect until the 31st.
     
  10. Dec 22, 2018 #10

    Dutchrailnut

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    not sure of MBB cars have ACES/ PTC but the GP40-3H have had it for years.

    they have had ACSES for operation on NEC.
     
  11. Dec 23, 2018 #11

    lordsigma

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    My understanding is CDOT elected to activate ACSES at the same time on their equipment even though not required to do so yet by the bulletin.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2018
  12. Dec 23, 2018 #12

    Thirdrail7

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    When  you quoted my response about the rule taking effect until the 31st, it has nothing to do with ACSES rules being  in effect. What you quoted has to do with exceeding 79mph without PTC. You are now conflating two different subject matters.

    Railroads other than Amtrak are not required, obligated to operate under ACSES rules. Cdot (and any other railroad) may enter the MRS without ACSES if they choose. To make this clear and put it terms you can understand, lordsigma:

    If an Amtrak train has ACSES failure at its initial terminal, it may NOT enter ACSES territory.  An Amtrak engine must be equipped with ACSES to enter the territory, unless it is on the exempt list. If the choice is operating without ACSES departing an initial terminal or cancelling a train, the train will be cancelled. This is A REQUIREMENT.

    On the other hand CDOT, may enter the territory without ACSES. If their ACSES fails, they may enter the territory if they choose to.  If they had a choice between canceling the train or operating without ACSES, they may operate without ACSES if they choose to. If they decided to borrow an engine without ACSES, they may enter the territory and operate without a restriction if they choose to. There is is nothing stopping them from doing so.

    Why?

    This is because the ACSES rules  are  NOT in effect for trains other than Amtrak and the rules DO NOT currently apply to any other trains.
     
  13. Dec 23, 2018 #13

    lordsigma

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    I actually misquoted I meant to quote the part about it only applying to Amtrak trains my apologies. Thanks for your explanation of the rule. I just wanted to share that CDOT did fully activate their ACSES PTC systems in their trains on the line at the same time, but now from your explanation I understand that they can operate without it by law/rules unlike Amtrak. Whether they actually will operate without it or whether they internally will not allow that I am not sure.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2018
  14. Dec 27, 2018 #14

    lordsigma

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    Curious about one thing - in the days before ACSES if you had a particularly risky curve or bridge that you wanted to protect with ATC/cab signals you would have to have a main line signal before the curve permanently in a slow aspect in order to enforce a lower speed at the curve correct?
     
  15. Dec 27, 2018 #15

    west point

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    That is what Amtrak should have done northbound before Frankford intersection.  However Amtrak did not and no ACSES protection as it was thought that ACS-64s could not accelerate fast enough. Amtrak found out differently /RE; 188 !
     
  16. Dec 28, 2018 #16

    Thirdrail7

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    You could use a fixed signal as you stated. You could also have a cab signal drop between the fixed signals to protect the restriction.
     
  17. Dec 28, 2018 #17

    neroden

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    So, at the risk of veering off topic, I believe Amtrak doesn't have ACSES or PTC up on the Hudson Line yet?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2018
  18. Dec 28, 2018 #18

    Thirdrail7

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    The Amtrak portion of Hudson line instituted ACSES rules on the same day as the SPG line.
     
  19. Dec 28, 2018 #19

    neroden

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    Nice.  I assume that means Hoffmans to Poughkeepsie and Sputen Duyvil to Penn.
     
  20. Dec 28, 2018 #20

    west point

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    Brings up a question.  Has Amtrak replaced all the code line on their portion of the Judson line ?
     
  21. Dec 28, 2018 #21

    neroden

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    The new cables were being buried last year and IIRC the year before.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2018
  22. Dec 29, 2018 #22

    lordsigma

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    It sounds like it was a rough week on the SPG line with some ACSES glitch caused delays. Guess they’ve got to get the bugs out of the system coupled with the crews getting used to operating with the system. Both Amtrak and CTrail commuters trains have had some glitches.
     
  23. Dec 29, 2018 #23

    Thirdrail7

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    It is an industry problem. A lot of trains are taking delays due to PTC issues and as Amtrak706 stated, it will only get worse after 12/31, if something isn't done.
     
  24. Dec 29, 2018 #24

    lordsigma

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    It will be interesting. Our two local freight operators that operate over the SPG line, Pan Am and CSO, have not yet turned on their ACSES. Things will get even more interesting when they do.
     
  25. Dec 29, 2018 #25

    jis

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    Question for Thirdrail - so PanAm, CSO and on the NEC P&W are equipping a subset of their equipment with ACSES perhaps in addition to I-ETMS?

    I know that on NEC South there are significant segments where the tracks are being dual equipped with both ACSES and I-ETMS with information link in the back office, the I-ETMS isntallation being paid for by NS or CSX or both, as I understand it. Is there any of that in NEC North?

    Are all the Boston/New Haven pool Amtrak diesels dual equipped with ACSES and I-ETMS?
     

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