Sign Online Petition to Save Amtrak LD Service

Discussion in 'Amtrak Rail Discussion' started by tommylicious, Jun 30, 2017.

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  1. Jun 30, 2017 #1

    tommylicious

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  2. Jun 30, 2017 #2

    City of Miami

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    Yeah, this has been shared to me a couple of times, and I decline. I'm not so sure about moveon. For 1 thing in order to sign the petition they want my email address and agreement to be inundated by all their propaganda. No! Non-starter. I suspect this has little to do with Amtrak and will have even less of an effect.
     
  3. Jun 30, 2017 #3

    A Voice

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    I'd encourage everyone to consider the source of that petition before signing. There is a long thread over on another forum about this very thing. I am not familiar with the organization, but I've seen enough to be uncomfortable being associated with such a radical group.

    You won't find a stronger supporter of Amtrak and its long-distance services, but I'm not putting my name there. Not that online petitions have much of a track record anyway; It is largely just a way for people to feel like they are doing something, when actually taking five minutes to pen a (unsolicited) personal letter to your elected officials would accomplish so much more.....
     
  4. Jul 1, 2017 #4

    LookingGlassTie

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    ^^This^^
     
  5. Jul 1, 2017 #5

    Lonestar648

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    This is a "Move On.Org" petition. Leaving your email opens you up to tons of their mail. I totally support Amtrak, but will not sign this petition nand open my self up to this group.
     
  6. Jul 1, 2017 #6

    neroden

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    They're not radical at all; they're really very conservative.

    This is the organization which was created by people who were sick of the Republican-generated crazy circus around the Clinton impeachment -- the slogan was "censure, and move on". They are fundamentally conservative in the real sense of the word: they want to preserve institutions and keep things "steady as she goes". They've been consistently unwilling to support any radical (a word meaning "from the roots") change of any sort; they support tinkering around the eges of the system. You'll find them supporting maintaining current funding for Amtrak; you'll never find them backing ambitious improvements in Amtrak.

    They're also... rather ineffective. (I am not surprised, since I believe our current problems require radical solutions.) Their petitions are mostly just excuses to get people on their mailing list.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2017
  7. Jul 1, 2017 #7

    railiner

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    I looked at the site...they have a disclaimer that by signing, you will accept their mailings, but that you may 'unsubscirbe' at any time....I would not trust that...even if they actually do unsubscribe you, chances are that they will have already 'sold' your address to other's....

    In addition, they have published the names and towns of petitioner's on their site....
     
  8. Jul 1, 2017 #8

    Ryan

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    If you were that interested in it, you would have read their privacy policy that states that they don't actually do that. ;)
     
  9. Jul 1, 2017 #9

    Ziv

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    Moveon claims to be a "Progressive" organization, which generally means it is a liberal person or organization that think the connotation of liberal has gotten pretty bad, so they "move on" to another label.

    This is what Wiki has to say on MoveOn, note their banner issues:

    " MoveOn.org is an American progressive public policy advocacy group and political action committee.[2] Formed in 1998 in response to the impeachment of President Bill Clinton by the U.S. House of Representatives, MoveOn.org has raised millions of dollars for candidates it identifies as "progressives" in the United States.[2] It also runs a petition Website similar to Change.org.[2]


    [*]5Model
    [*]6Financial contributors
    [*]7Criticism
    [*]8David Petraeus advertising controversy
    [*]9Anti-Trump Movement
    [*]10Further reading
    [*]11See also
    [*]12References
    [*]13External links

    "

    Wikipedia 2017

    Mods, please delete this if quoting Wikipedia verbatim is not a fair use or in inappropriate in any way. I am not sure if cut and pasting like this is allowed on this site, but I thought it was useful to see what Wiki thinks are the lead talking points for MoveOn.

    On edit: One detail that is kind of telling. MoveOn supporters backed Bernie over HIllary 78% to 14%. So MoveOn backed the socialist over the democrat by 5.5:1. I couldn't find any data on how many backed Romney or Trump in the last two elections. ;-)

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2017
  10. Jul 1, 2017 #10

    tommylicious

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    Cut off your nose to spite your face...well done!
     
  11. Jul 1, 2017 #11

    Green Maned Lion

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    The problem with online petitions is they convince people they have done something when what they are doing is confusing noise with accomplishment.

    If you want to save LD trains, the best thing you can do is try and create a local coalition to talk to local politicians and relevant representatives. An online petition is merely a forgettable statistic- this many people out of 200 million voters like long distance trains. They don't actually read them. They don't even read the executive summary of many of the bills they pass... or even sponser- forget your petition.

    But an actual group of people coming to offices and rationally discussiong the issue? At least they might catch some info while they nap.
     
  12. Jul 1, 2017 #12

    railiner

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    Okay, I went back and read it all....and it does mention sharing certain information with petitioner's and 'affiliates' etc....and that if malicious use results, they will release it to law enforcement, etc....

    I am not very legal-literate, and do not really comprehend these long disclaimer's, but my 'gut-feeling' tells me to just not trust these sites, warranted or not....
     
  13. Jul 1, 2017 #13

    KnightRail

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    About the only thing a petition is good for is emergency backup toilet paper. Want to save LD trains, your going to have to get in the ears of your politicians. Make it clear to them how eliminating LD trains can cause them political blow back and wouldn't be a good move for them. If it's not explained in a away that quantifies the negative political consequences and repercussions with voters, they are never going to listen.
     
  14. Jul 1, 2017 #14

    WoodyinNYC

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    I signed on.

    MoveOn apparently was against impeaching a President for getting a casual blow job (like that was some "high crime or misdemeanor". LOL). They like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, and I think that both of those Senators keep raising important issues -- like real infrastructure investment. They are against hate and are anti-Trump.

    What's not to like?
     
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  15. Jul 1, 2017 #15

    SarahZ

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    Clinton was impeached for perjury and obstruction of justice, not purely for his relations with Monica Lewinsky. (Although, Starr did try to use "abuse of power" after he lost his first attempt to impeach Clinton, but that didn't fly either.)
     
  16. Jul 1, 2017 #16

    JayPea

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    This.
     
  17. Jul 1, 2017 #17

    A Voice

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    Well, that's two reasons right there to not like - and have nothing to do with - the MoveOn organization. President Trump has a lot of good ideas (the Heritage Foundation authored view on passenger rail is, alas, not one of them) and is entitled to a degree of respect even if you disagree with his policies. Beyond that, constructive dialogue is far more productive that just fanning the flames of controversy, a point lost on groups such as MoveOn. The liberal agenda they espouse has done a lot of damage to the fabric of this nation; What they decry as hate is anyone who holds an opposing opinion and expresses conservative social viewpoints.
     
  18. Jul 2, 2017 #18

    JayPea

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    I'm breaking out the popcorn for this one. Should last until posts start getting deleted. ;)
     
  19. Jul 2, 2017 #19

    pennyk

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    Please keep the discussion limited to the topic of the Petition to Save Amtrak Long Distance Service. Thank you.
     
  20. Jul 2, 2017 #20

    Bob Dylan

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    A Voice: RE: "..President Trump has a lot of good ideas.."

    Such as????
     
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  21. Jul 2, 2017 #21

    railiner

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    The sometimes polarizing catchphrase "We're going to make America great again" got me thinking....now what does that sound like?

    And then I remembered...."Tracks are back...we're making trains worth travelling again!"

    Who remembers that? :D

    Sorry, Penny, I just couldn't resist that.... :)
     
  22. Jul 2, 2017 #22

    neroden

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    I think that wouldn't even be true if you removed the word "good". I'm not sure the... things... coming out of Trump's head qualify as ideas. He's *frighteningly* confused.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/05/01/note-president-trump-andrew-jackson-wasnt-alive-civil-war/101149060/

    I don't think Trump has anything which qualifies as an idea on most topics; he contradicts himself routinely.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/full-list-donald-trump-s-rapidly-changing-policy-positions-n547801

    I honestly don't know what to make of this, except that I'm quite sure he's not really paying much attention to almost everything -- I'm certain he hasn't even NOTICED Amtrak. Which means that the power over Amtrak lies elsewhere. Some random aide wrote the Heritage Foundation budget and he signed it without looking at it. It was immediately declared dead on arrival in Congress and they are starting from scratch.

    Most Congressmen may actually be capable of paying attention long enough to *have* opinions -- I do advise that everyone call your Representative and Senators and tell them how important long distance Amtrak service is to you.
     
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  23. Jul 2, 2017 #23

    Mystic River Dragon

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    Good advice, neroden :) .

    My senators (Booker and Menendez, New Jersey) are both prorail and seem well informed.

    On the other hand, my congressman, who was elected primarily to keep a military base here open by people who work at that base and didn't want to lose their jobs, seems to have limited knowledge of or interest in Amtrak--the only comment he made was about its "lack of leadership" after the Penn derailments (oddly enough, when we finally had good leadership, in Wick, trying to fix the mess). Passenger rail is not my congressman's focus, and his comment seemed to be just a sound bite he thought would sound good.

    My question is this: Does it make sense for me to write to any of these people explaining that I take long-distance trains and they are important to me? Or would my senators already understand that people in the Northeast do travel the LD network? And if my congressman's priorities are the military (and now health care), I have a feeling a passenger rail advocacy letter would just go in the trash--I'm probably the only person in his district who cares about it.

    What do you all think? Write to them? Or concentrate rail advocacy somewhere else?
     
  24. Jul 2, 2017 #24

    Lonestar648

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    I have written both my Senators (Cruz and Cornyn) and have asked my friends and neighbors to write. I know have done so. None of us have hear back from Cruz, and from John C. Just his political BS canned email stating that all issues are very important to him and everyone in Congress. My take is after numerous letters to both over the past months, year, I don't taken them to be pro Amtrak. Cruz is probably ready to kill all rail funding, let everyone drive their personal cars to work. My US Rep is mostly conservative, but sides where the polls side.
     
  25. Jul 3, 2017 #25

    neroden

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    Yes. Your Congressman is definitely worth writing to. He isn't a clear supporter... but he also isn't a clear opponent. (These two types cannot be influenced.) He doesn't have really strong opinions on Amtrak to start with but he seems to care enough to pay attention when something happens -- something like a news story or like *getting a letter from his constituent*.
    Think about it this way. If he has no strong opinions, but is vaguely interested enough to comment on news stories... when the question of trains comes up, he'll ask his aides, "what do my constituents think" and his aides will say "We got some letters in favor of Amtrak", and... see, it could have an influence.

    Your Congressman is the precise type of person who letter-writing can influence.

    By contrast, your Senators are already in the bag, no point in writing. (And Senator Cruz has a record of opposition and is probably hopeless, again no point.)

    Consider yourself lucky: my Senators are both in the bag and my Representative doesn't respond to any letters from my city (he's bigoted against it).
     
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