Security or spill-over egotism?

[tootootrain]

On one of my recent California Amtrak rides, I saw a conductor giving a passenger a hard time for taking pictures of his child sitting in front of him and of the scenery outside of the dirty window. The imposing conductor was citing home land security reasons.

 

[Guest]

On one of my recent California Amtrak rides, I saw a conductor giving a passenger a hard time for taking pictures of his child sitting in front of him and of the scenery outside of the dirty window. The imposing conductor was citing home land security reasons.

That conductor was wrong. That is not Amtrak policy. Unfortunately some make up their own rules that seem logical in their own mind but are not correct. The way to correct that conductor is to first find out if they were the head conductor when you are onboard. If it is the assistant conductor then go to the head conductor on the train who hopefully knows the policy. If that turns out not satisfactory then get the name and call customer relations so that the crew member or members can be educated on Amtrak policy.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

Looks like some one ( conductor ) needs to stop reading TSA bulletins

 

[Ryan]

On one of my recent California Amtrak rides, I saw a conductor giving a passenger a hard time for taking pictures of his child sitting in front of him and of the scenery outside of the dirty window. The imposing conductor was citing home land security reasons.

That conductor was wrong. That is not Amtrak policy. Unfortunately some make up their own rules that seem logical in their own mind but are not correct. The way to correct that conductor is to first find out if they were the head conductor when you are onboard. If it is the assistant conductor then go to the head conductor on the train who hopefully knows the policy. If that turns out not satisfactory then get the name and call customer relations so that the crew member or members can be educated on Amtrak policy.

Nailed it.

 

[caravanman]

Take your child for a train ride and take a souvenir picture? HEY ! That's gotta be against some stupid imaginary rule, for some stupid imaginary security reason...

Ed.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

They hate us for our freedumb.

 

[Ryan]

Forgot to mention, please call and complain. In my experience, doing so really does help these idiots get retrained.

 

[TinCan782]

I don't perceive a security or interference issue here based on information provided by the OP.

Wonder what the conductor perceived as an issue that he would make such a request?

Perhaps some "education" is needed for this particular Amtrak employee.

Amtrak Corporate Guidelines on Photography and Video Recording

Section III. Exceptions

3. "Ticketed passengers on board trains may take photos or video record on a train when it does not interfere with passengers or crew and in accordance with any directions given by Amtrak onboard train personnel."

http://www.amtrak.com/photography-video-recording-policy?WT.z_va_evt=click&WT.z_va_topic=&WT.z_va_unit=Photo%20and%20Video%20Policy&WT.z_va_group=

 

[jis]

Then there is the problem with "If you see something, say something".

There was one time when a lady with very fertile imagination saw an Amtrak Conductor moving six Asian looking men from one car to another to make space for a large group that was boarding at Jacksonville. She called 911, without even talking to any Amtrak crew because she thought that the train had already been hijacked. The net result was that an entire posse of TSA/ VIPR and whoever else they could muster on short notice together with their K9s descended upon the train as soon as it arrived in JAX.

The train was held there for 6 hours while everyone sat around and had pizza, donuts and coffee provided by the local fire department and Amtrak. Fortunately it was a clear starry night with pleasant temps.

Finally in the wee hours of the morning the train was released. They detached the last car for further investigations, and boarded everyone, including those six Asian looking men on the shorter train and proceeded North.

Everyone was relieved that another heinous terrorist attack had been nipped in the bud I am sure. I was relieved to get back in my bed for a few hours of Zzzzs before heading off to the Diner for a late breakfast. At least we got to see much of the route that is usually in dark, in bright daylight. But pine trees look surprisingly same no matter whether they are near Savannah, or Columbia or Hamlet or Raleigh.... Oh well...

 

[Guest]

I don't perceive a security or interference issue here based on information provided by the OP.

Wonder what the conductor perceived as an issue that he would make such a request?

Perhaps some "education" is needed for this particular Amtrak employee.

There has been a fair amount of paranoia and reaction since 9/11. And there are posters all over "See Something, Say Something". Not only have some crew members become infused with paranoia but also some passengers. With crew it is best to say something to a supervisor or call so that the employee can be educated. Amtrak does not want ticketed passengers hassled taking casual pictures on the train.

 

[Guest]

Then there is the problem with "If you say something, say something".

There was one time when a lady with very fertile imagination saw an Amtrak Conductor moving six Asian looking men from one car to another to make space for a large group that was boarding at Jacksonville. She called 9-11, without even talking to any Amtrak crew because she thought that the train had already been hijacked. The net result was that an entire posse of TSA/ VIPR and whoever else they could muster on short notice together with their K9s descended upon the train as soon as it arrived in JAX.

The train was held there for 6 hours while everyone sat around and had pizza, donuts and coffee provided by the local fire department and Amtrak. Fortunately it was a clear starry night with pleasant temps.

Finally in the wee hours of the morning the train was released. They detached the last car for further investigations, and boarded everyone, including those six Asian looking men on the shorter train and proceeded North.

Everyone was relieved that another heinous terrorist attack had been nipped in the bud I am sure. I was relieved to get back in my bed for a few hours of Zzzzs before heading off to the Diner for a late breakfast. At least we got to see much of the route that is usually in dark, in bright daylight. But pine trees look surprisingly same no matter whether they are near Savannah, or Columbia or Hamlet or Raleigh.... Oh well...

Then there is the problem with "If you say something, say something".

There was one time when a lady with very fertile imagination saw an Amtrak Conductor moving six Asian looking men from one car to another to make space for a large group that was boarding at Jacksonville. She called 9-11, without even talking to any Amtrak crew because she thought that the train had already been hijacked. The net result was that an entire posse of TSA/ VIPR and whoever else they could muster on short notice together with their K9s descended upon the train as soon as it arrived in JAX.

The train was held there for 6 hours while everyone sat around and had pizza, donuts and coffee provided by the local fire department and Amtrak. Fortunately it was a clear starry night with pleasant temps.

Finally in the wee hours of the morning the train was released. They detached the last car for further investigations, and boarded everyone, including those six Asian looking men on the shorter train and proceeded North.

Everyone was relieved that another heinous terrorist attack had been nipped in the bud I am sure. I was relieved to get back in my bed for a few hours of Zzzzs before heading off to the Diner for a late breakfast. At least we got to see much of the route that is usually in dark, in bright daylight. But pine trees look surprisingly same no matter whether they are near Savannah, or Columbia or Hamlet or Raleigh.... Oh well...

Yes, this happens. Passengers call 911 without talking to the crew and police and dogs show up and the train is evacuated. One time I recall a power company executive was on his phone and was overheard talking about a power station transformer exploding and a passenger called 911. That caused an hour delay.

 

[neroden]

*sigh* This sort of paranoia makes everyone *less* safe.

Eventually the police stop reacting to actual threats because all they get are nonsense false alarms.

Well before that, people get sick of overreacting authority figures and stop respecting or cooperating with authority figures.

There are sorts of paranoia which can make people safer, probably -- but the post-9/11 stuff has just made everyone less safe. That's what bin Laden wanted, of course: he actually had a video where he said that he wanted Americans to abandon their freedoms in a fit of paranoia...(he had some strange rationale for how this would cause the world to flock to him instead).

 

[StriderGDM]

Personally I'm helluva curious what security threat the conductor saw of a parent taking a picture of their kid.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Personally I'm helluva curious what security threat the conductor saw of a parent taking a picture of their kid.

Maybe thought it was a setup and the parent was really taking pics of who know what. Yeah, some people are paranoid.

 

[Rail Freak]

They should Paranoid their Butts right off the Pay Roll!!!!

 

[Passenger]

I was on the Empire Builder a couple of years ago and a guy in the lounge was taking pictures of young children. There was something suspicious about this, and he was soon asked to stop, first by passengers and then by the conductor. I am not certain there is a parallel with what was described above, but there may be a certain issue about people taking pictures of children. I am not excusing the conductor, just offering an explanation.

 

[BCL]

I recently saw Homelend Security Police at a station as people were getting off. Nothing earth shattering though. His presence didn't seem much different than transit police standing at a subway station.

I rarely see Amtrak Police around here though. The last time I saw one, he came out of an unmarked vehicle that screamed "cop car" along with US government plates. He was clearly in uniform though.

 

[TinCan782]

I was on the Empire Builder a couple of years ago and a guy in the lounge was taking pictures of young children. There was something suspicious about this, and he was soon asked to stop, first by passengers and then by the conductor. I am not certain there is a parallel with what was described above, but there may be a certain issue about people taking pictures of children. I am not excusing the conductor, just offering an explanation.

I'm a photographer and shoot a lot when out on my own outings, etc. I pay particular attention to avoiding photographing children just to avoid putting myself in that situation. I may avoid what might be a "good shot" just to avoid that. Things are not like they used to be.

 

[StriderGDM]

I was on the Empire Builder a couple of years ago and a guy in the lounge was taking pictures of young children. There was something suspicious about this, and he was soon asked to stop, first by passengers and then by the conductor. I am not certain there is a parallel with what was described above, but there may be a certain issue about people taking pictures of children. I am not excusing the conductor, just offering an explanation.

I can certainly see that. However that is not a homeland security issue.

"Homeland security" has seem to be the go to excuse for many non-existent prohibitions.

 

[Ryan]

I was on the Empire Builder a couple of years ago and a guy in the lounge was taking pictures of young children. There was something suspicious about this, and he was soon asked to stop, first by passengers and then by the conductor. I am not certain there is a parallel with what was described above, but there may be a certain issue about people taking pictures of children. I am not excusing the conductor, just offering an explanation.

There's something of a difference between taking pictures of *your* children and taking pictures of *random* children.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I was on the Empire Builder a couple of years ago and a guy in the lounge was taking pictures of young children. There was something suspicious about this, and he was soon asked to stop, first by passengers and then by the conductor. I am not certain there is a parallel with what was described above, but there may be a certain issue about people taking pictures of children. I am not excusing the conductor, just offering an explanation.

I can certainly see that. However that is not a homeland security issue.

And yet it's equally irrational and statistically blind. I find it amazing how fundamentally interesting American parents seem to think their children are to everyone else, including complete strangers. Whether they're telling endless stories nobody else cares about or trying to shove them in your face in order to sell you cookies or trying to shield them from your evil clutches it's utterly hilarious. Or at least it would be if our culture wasn't so hopelessly clueless and reactionary. Statistically speaking most children are every bit as interesting as their parents. Which is another way of saying they are boring beyond belief. Sorry but it's the simple truth whether we're capable of believing it or not.