PDX closes bathrooms 2 1/2 hours before station itself closes

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fairviewroad

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I noticed this sign at PDX last Friday. The public restroom is references appears to be a "Portland Loo", which is basically a jazzed up outhouse meant to give homeless people a place to legally relieve themselves. It's about two city blocks from the PDX Amtrak station. Generally the area is "safe" but I'm not sure that telling people that walking two blocks at night to use the restroom is for their own safety is really all that sensical. Obviously they are implying that the PDX train station cannot ensure the safety of its own, on-site restrooms.

That said, PDX is a fairly quiet place in the evening. There are no train departures after 7 p.m. There is one train arrival, one Thruway bus departure, and three Thruway bus arrivals. Generally speaking all of those services would have some sort of working restroom on board. But woe to anyone who skips using the toilet on the Thruway bus because they'd rather use a real bathroom at the train station. In that case, you'd better hoof it down to Glisan Street! :eek:

The station itself closes at 9:30 p.m. according to Amtrak.com but I suspect this is in error since the final train arrives at 9:45 p.m. and I'm not aware of any way to get from railside to streetside at PDX without passing through the station building.

PDX sign.jpg
 
When a bureaucracy does not know how to justify what it wants to do, it says the policy is for safety or security. These reasons are supposed to be above challenge. As fairviewroad points out, sometimes the policy just cannot stand scrutiny. It's like Amtrak's baggage policy prohibiting oversize bags, that was explained as being for safety and security. As someone else noted, safety and security went out the window upon payment of a fee.
 
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I'm confident that someone here will get that situation corrected by noon PST tomorrow.
 
PDX Loo outside:

PDXloo.jpg


PDX Loo Inside:

PDXlooInside.jpg
 
Seems like one of those local staff initiatives... Probably just saves the staff time in cleaning up at the end of their day?

Most humans need to use a restroom at some point in the day... The lack of adequate public facilities worldwide is a problem for those who like to travel.

Ed :cool:
 
Seems like one of those local staff initiatives... Probably just saves the staff time in cleaning up at the end of their day?
That's what I was thinking too. Possibly, the person who cleans the bathrooms, is only paid to work up until 8pm. So, they have to start cleaning by 7pm.

The local staff could have also noticed that most of the people who use the bathrooms after 7pm, aren't even Amtrak customers.
 
Does the Greyhound bus station right next door to PDX close their restrooms early also? :huh:
I don't know. IME that Greyhound station tends to have a stricter "customer-only" policy in terms of bathrooms. And obviously Amtrak is not going to explicitly direct people to the Greyhound station. But you're right, to get to the "Loo" you'd be walking right past Greyhound, which is open until 11:30 p.m. YMMV in terms of actually being allowed to use it, though.

Looks like you may need waders to use the loo.
To be clear, there are multiple Portland Loos in Portland. They are (allegedly) cleaned twice a day. I think, on average, they are about as clean as your typical gas station restroom. Sometimes sparkly clean, sometimes....well.

The local staff could have also noticed that most of the people who use the bathrooms after 7pm, aren't even Amtrak customers.
I suspect there's some truth to this, given the near-absence of Amtrak departures at that hour. Still, I suspect that there are passengers arriving on the last train from SEA each evening who are surprised to learn they should have done their biz-ness on the train. (Maybe there's an announcement on the train? I doubt it, but cannot verify one way or the other.)
 
Reminds me of an old radio skit that I heard years ago, about how the freight railroads were trying to get rid of passenger traffic by any means possible. Voice A: ... and then there's the dirt in the stations... Voice B: Yeah, people keep tracking it out as fast as we bring it in.
 
This could also be a landlord issue (City of Portland) closing the restrooms and Amtrak might not have any say.
 
Someone needs to contact the local commercial code enforcement in the city of Portland. This is most likely not legal.

If anyone wants some quick cash, ask to use the restroom after 7 PM for medical reasons, and if you are told no; You've got a great lawsuit on your hands with the ADA. The state of Oregon does recognize the Restroom Access Act, AKA "Ally's Law."

Amtrak is also setting themselves up for potential liability if any customer is robbed (or worse :( ) walking to and from a public restroom.

Look.. when an LSA ends the Lunch seating early it's annoying. But this is a huge liability risk that Amtrak is taking. This is most likely station employees taking it upon themselves to create some non-sense rule.
 
Someone needs to contact the local commercial code enforcement in the city of Portland. This is most likely not legal.

If anyone wants some quick cash, ask to use the restroom after 7 PM for medical reasons, and if you are told no; You've got a great lawsuit on your hands with the ADA. The state of Oregon does recognize the Restroom Access Act, AKA "Ally's Law."

Amtrak is also setting themselves up for potential liability if any customer is robbed (or worse :( ) walking to and from a public restroom.

Look.. when an LSA ends the Lunch seating early it's annoying. But this is a huge liability risk that Amtrak is taking. This is most likely station employees taking it upon themselves to create some non-sense rule.
Why is it always someone else? Why not you if you think there is a violation or problem? Also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restroom_Access_Actpretty clearly states what is needed and what conditions are covered. From the sounds of it, it looks like closing the bathroom early can fit or be argued that in complies with list below.

(1) The customer requesting the use of the employee toilet facility suffers from an eligible medical condition or utilizes an ostomy device. (2) Three or more employees of the retail establishment are working at the time the customer requests use of the employee toilet facility. (3) The retail establishment does not normally make a restroom available to the public. (4) The employee toilet facility is not located in an area where providing access would create an obvious health or safety risk to the customer or an obvious security risk to the retail establishment. (5) A public restroom is not immediately accessible to the customer.[9]
 
Just a quick look at the picture of that stool makes me quickly understand why the station closes the johns early. That is too nice of a station to be over run by street riff-raff!
 
Someone needs to contact the local commercial code enforcement in the city of Portland. This is most likely not legal.

If anyone wants some quick cash, ask to use the restroom after 7 PM for medical reasons, and if you are told no; You've got a great lawsuit on your hands with the ADA. The state of Oregon does recognize the Restroom Access Act, AKA "Ally's Law."

Amtrak is also setting themselves up for potential liability if any customer is robbed (or worse :( ) walking to and from a public restroom.

Look.. when an LSA ends the Lunch seating early it's annoying. But this is a huge liability risk that Amtrak is taking. This is most likely station employees taking it upon themselves to create some non-sense rule.
Why is it always someone else? Why not you if you think there is a violation or problem? Also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restroom_Access_Actpretty clearly states what is needed and what conditions are covered. From the sounds of it, it looks like closing the bathroom early can fit or be argued that in complies with list below.
(1) The customer requesting the use of the employee toilet facility suffers from an eligible medical condition or utilizes an ostomy device. (2) Three or more employees of the retail establishment are working at the time the customer requests use of the employee toilet facility. (3) The retail establishment does not normally make a restroom available to the public. (4) The employee toilet facility is not located in an area where providing access would create an obvious health or safety risk to the customer or an obvious security risk to the retail establishment. (5) A public restroom is not immediately accessible to the customer.%5B9%5D
I thought that the Restroom Access Act, AKA "Ally's Law.", only states that if the only bathroom is for employee-use-only, that the business has to allow a customer with IBS to use it, if requested.

And I don't see that ADA fits because the bathroom is closed for all. It would be different if only the main (lobby) floor bathroom was closed, and the remaining open one was up a long flight of stairs (that's not the case here).
 
I usually use the bathroom in the Metro Lounge when in PDX, but the times I've been there on a Cascades or in Coach, I found the location of the Bathrooms down a Dark, semi-deserted Hall away from the Waiting Room to be sort of creepy even in the middle of the day!
 
I was bringing up ADA as it relates to Ally's law, meaning if you have a working restroom, you can't deny access to that restroom. *edit* - under the conditions of that law. seat38 quoted those conditions*

The very idea that anyone would defend Amtrak for this crazy decision is beyond me. But that's what makes the Internet fun!
 
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Interestingly, City of Chicago ordinance forbids merchants from saying "restrooms for customers only" despite signs being posted (I don't know where the ordinance falls on retail vs. restaurants, etc, too lazy to look it up), so closing them could make sense in PDX rather than allowing non-patrons to use the toilets. Of course, then there are are other weird laws such as the one that means the common/shared by all tenants restrooms on the floor I work on are locked and must be accessed with key only.
 
Just a quick look at the picture of that stool makes me quickly understand why the station closes the johns early. That is too nice of a station to be over run by street riff-raff!
Policies like closing the restrooms early will ensure the station isn't overrun by paying customers, either.

I usually use the bathroom in the Metro Lounge when in PDX, but the times I've been there on a Cascades or in Coach, I found the location of the Bathrooms down a Dark, semi-deserted Hall away from the Waiting Room to be sort of creepy even in the middle of the day!
This is a reasonable observation. The lighting in that area leaves a lot to be desired. Apparently the powers-that-be decided that the solution is to make it less convenient, rather than safer. That said, I've used the facilities many times in PDX and never had an issue. It's a big-city station, with all the pluses and minuses involved with that.
 
I agree, Amtrak is just another tenant and has little to do with the bathroom. This is the City of PDX that dictated this ruling. It could be a city employee cutback or an attempt to keep the homeless from using the facility. Just a thought.
 
I agree, Amtrak is just another tenant and has little to do with the bathroom. This is the City of PDX that dictated this ruling. It could be a city employee cutback or an attempt to keep the homeless from using the facility. Just a thought.
If I was the main tenant of a building, presumably paying a large rent, and the landlord wouldn't let my customers use the restroom. I would be very unhappy.

You do make a good point... this is not necessarily Amtrak.
 
According to Wikipedia, there are some 30 tenants of Union Station in Portland. Most of these appear to be private offices on the second floor. I suspect these offices have their own upstairs bathroom and/or are typically closed after 7 p.m.

That leaves basically two public-facing tenants of the building: Amtrak and Wilf's Restaurant. While I've never eaten at Wilf's, I think it's a safe bet they have their own restrooms and aren't telling their post-7 p.m. customers to walk to 5th and Glisan.

That leaves customers of Amtrak, the most prominent tenant of the building, as the only ones affected by this decision. You and I may know/suspect the blame lies elsewhere, but at the end of the day (literally, in this case) it will be Amtrak that takes the blame from the bulk of the traveling public. Even though most Amtrak customers use the building prior to 7 p.m., the mere presence of a sign like that cries "We're a sketchy operation." You wouldn't expect to see that at the Portland or Seattle airports.
 
I love PDX, and not just because it's my home station. It's a lovely, marble, working antique. The public restrooms, not the metro lounge ones, well a cut rate gas station would be ashamed. Wilf's definitely has their owm - they're a classy joint. I'm willing to bet that this is a lazy way to discourage the homeless from hanging out at the station. Portland has a serious homeless problem - and I don't want to start a debate on how to fix it - other than the fact that this doesn't appear to be it. If I'm correct, once again the sins of the few cause the many to suffer because of the laziness of those in charge.
 
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