Newark Airport Improvement Plans

Discussion in 'Non-Rail Transportation' started by jis, Nov 24, 2019.

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

  1. Nov 24, 2019 #1

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    25,078
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    A lot is starting to happen at Newark Airport. With the funding request for EWR Terminal 2 from PANYNJ Board, the projects to move the terminal back into where the short term parking lots are in order to make room for a third runway is picking up steam.

    With that also comes a new Airtrain, and the extension of PATH to Newark Airport Train Station.

    All part of the $37. Billion 2017-2026 Capital Plan of PANYNJ of which combined Airports projects are $11.6 Billion

    https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/documents/Public-Process-Capital-Plan-Reassessment/

    New Airtrain $2.05 Billion (that is about the same as projected budget for both Portal Bridges...)

    https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/about-airtrain-ewr/

    https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/documents/EWR-AirTrain-Public-Session/

    Terminal One $2.7 Billion

    https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/about-terminal-one-redevelopment/

    Terminal Two Cost TBD but is likely to be substantially more than for Terminal 1 since it is slated to be a much bigger terminal.

    https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/files/u...s/CPEAM_-_EWR_Terminal_2_-_Public_Session.pdf

    PATH Extension $1.7 Billion

    http://library.rpa.org/pdf/RPA_Taking_the_Path_To_NewarkAirport.pdf

    https://www.panynj.gov/path/pdf/Presentation_for_the_PATH_Extension_Public_Scoping_Meetings.pdf
     
    Pere Flyer and daybeers like this.
  2. Nov 24, 2019 #2

    jiml

    jiml

    jiml

    Lead Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2019
    Messages:
    473
    Location:
    Toronto area
    It will be great to see this come to fruition. Newark's kind of a dump, but I've never encountered the delays there that dominate the other two NYC airports. There are also some decent hotels at Newark, which is something that certainly can't be said of JFK.
     
  3. Nov 25, 2019 #3

    Thirdrail7

    T

    Thirdrail7

    Conductor AU Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Messages:
    4,159
    No wonder the George Washington Bridge toll is crippling. :rolleyes:
     
    Pere Flyer and daybeers like this.
  4. Nov 25, 2019 #4

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    25,078
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    Yeah, that is mostly for the components outside the airport. Afterall they have to find almost $30 billion over ten years to fund the non airport projects. That would include the PATH extension since it cannot be funded out of airport ticket tax, it being outside airport property. In order to get the JFK AirTrain funded from airport taxes they had to transfer the median of Van Wyck and the land on which the station is built in Jamaica to JFK Airport/PANYNJ, crazy as it may sound. For LGA they are funding only the on airport part from airport taxes and the rest from elsewhere apparently.

    If one digs into the details most of the funding for improvements at the airports is out of the moneys collected in various ways at the airports, like the ticket tax and the exorbitant fees for riding the AirTrain to the NEC station, Parking fees and such. There are some feddybucks involved possibly from programs aimed towards reduction of pollution and such probably.

    It seems to me that the PATH improvements and consequent changes in the Airport NEC station, opening up local access can lead to very significant property development around the station in the Haynes Ave., Frelinghuysen Ave. area on the side of the track opposite to the airport.

    Incidentally, rail advocates at NJ have strenuously opposed the PATH $2 Billion extension project saying that it is a waste of money. Afterall, that $2 Billion would be close to sufficient to complete the construction of both Portal North and South. Of course, given the crazy PA politics, probably some project costing another $2 Billion will have to be funded in NY.

    Also incidentally, funding for portions of the Gateway project will come from those same exorbitant GW Bridge tolls. So don't look a gift horse in the mouth :D
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
    Pere Flyer likes this.
  5. Nov 25, 2019 #5

    daybeers

    d

    daybeers

    OBS Chief

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2016
    Messages:
    628
    Location:
    HFD
    Yikes, so much moolah! I agree some of that money should be spent on the Portal bridges instead of the unneeded PATH extension. Would have a much higher ROI as well.
     
  6. Nov 25, 2019 #6

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    25,078
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    But unfortunately that money is apparently not fungible/transferable. It can be either spent on PATH or not at all. Mysteries of PA accounting and budgeting buckets.
     
    Pere Flyer and daybeers like this.
  7. Nov 26, 2019 #7

    Thirdrail7

    T

    Thirdrail7

    Conductor AU Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Messages:
    4,159
    For the record, I tend to agree. You're spending a lot of money to duplicate services.


    For the record, I'm against that too. I was also against the PA funding the Pulaski Skyway overhaul, using the tortured logic that is "like an extension of the Holland Tunnel."

    They are gouging people, knowing that the only real alternative to entering NYC without using a PA crossing or public transportation to travel into MYC is to use the Tappan Zee or use a jet ski or other aquatic flotation device.

    The Chesapeake Bay Bridge and Tunnel is 23 miles and has two tunnels in the system and is almost the same price.
     
    daybeers likes this.
  8. Nov 27, 2019 #8

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    25,078
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    You'll have to go and argue with the US Congress, the two State's Legislatures, Governors and of course the PA bosses on that one.

    The 1995 Mission Statement of the PA state:
    AFAIR it has recently been modified to state:
    Funding part of Gateway seems to be not only well within that Mission, but indeed at the core of it, unless of course we believe that Gateway will provide an extremely inefficient transportation facility or something like that. Given the relative level of usage of any new Hudson crossing facilities by rail it stands to reason that significant contribution of resources would come from PANYNJ.

    Interestingly the current recommendation is for the PA to shed its Real Estate operations and concentrate on transportation and commerce. The following document is a very interesting read:

    https://www.panynj.gov/pdf/SpecialPanelReporttotheGovernors.pdf

    Pages 45 through 48 are most relevant to the focus on transportation for efficiently "moving people around", and indeed refocusing on that aspect of its mission.

    As an aside, setting up the governance structure around Gateway has been an interesting exercise because neither Amtrak nor PANYNJ are trusted enough to manage such a huge pile of funds all by itself, while allowing enough oversight by the two states who are affected the most. Hence the creation of Gateway Development Corporation, which is not a subsidiary of PANYNJ or Amtrak, through the Gateway Development Commission Act passed by the New York and the New Jersey Legislature. This keeps the states firmly in the loop and apparently the states intend to often use PANYNJ as their proxy in the affairs of Gateway. Here is an article on the creation of the bi-state Commission:

    https://www.masstransitmag.com/rail...d-to-establish-gateway-development-commission

    Anyway, back to Newark Airport.

    My feelings about PATH to EWR are mixed. I actually do not think it really is duplicated service at all having struggled to board a crowded NJT service from EWR to New York. NJT service is infrequent even though it is 2tph (one train following the others marker) and not really geared towards usage by air passengers at all. There is the need for real airport service. Whether it is PATH or something else was worthy of a discussion running upto the PATH decision.

    At the present time a relatively frequent clock face airport service (train originating/terminating at the airport every 30mins or 15 mins (or more frequent) as is common in cities of equivalent size elsewhere in the world) on the NEC is apparently impossible. It may be a bit more possible after the additional tunnels are built perhaps. Such a service would be quite feasible with PATH at EWR possibly with alternate through trains to WTC and 33rd St. But it would be slower than a hypothetical NEC service.

    My main beef is that if PATH is being extended to EWR, why not use it as the replacement for the dinky AirTrain within the airport too, i.e. connect to the three terminals too, instead of building yet another edifice requiring yet another change of trains?

    In an ideal world of an NEC based service scenario after the new tunnels are built would be a train every 15-30 mins that connects EWR to JFK making stops at NWK, SEC and NYP on the way to Jamaica where connection is made to JFK AirTrain, unless of course they get around to reinstating the Rockaway Branch and runs such a train to Hoawrd Beach or some such. Decongests Jamaica. There would need to be a flyover built in the vicinity of CP Lane to allow turning of such a service without interfering with the NEC flow. Alternatively it could be run a little further and turned at Union/McGraw. Just dreamin'.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2019
  9. Nov 27, 2019 #9

    MARC Rider

    M

    MARC Rider

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,390
    Location:
    Baltimore. MD
    Oh, I don't know, Wall Street gets a one-seat ride from the airport to the financial district in lower Manhattan for use by lower-level staff. (Of course, the big shots have their limos and helicopters and such, but it would make it much more convenient for the grunts who work on Wall Street to not have to change trains.)
     
  10. Nov 28, 2019 #10

    trainman74

    trainman74

    trainman74

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,552
    Location:
    Sherman Oaks, CA
    As it happens, my dad recently sent me this photo, which I believe he found in the New Jersey state archives.

    It's an aerial view of Newark Airport from -- well, Dad said it was 1944, but I think 1954 is closer to correct.

    [​IMG]
     
    jis likes this.
  11. Nov 28, 2019 #11

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    25,078
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    That shows what was then 4/22, now 4R/22L. This was constructed after the PA got the lease and started a major investment program. So it came after 1948. Hence the conjecture that this is sometime in the '50s would appear to be a reasonable one.
     
  12. Nov 29, 2019 #12

    neroden

    n

    neroden

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    7,484
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY
    Um... has anyone at the PA thought about making the airport flood-resistant? Expansions of construction in floodplains are a pretty dicey affair...
     
  13. Nov 29, 2019 #13

    Qapla

    Qapla

    Qapla

    Lead Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2019
    Messages:
    492
    Location:
    Gator Country Florida
    Is the planned PATH extension to the airport planned at grade, raised or underground?
     
  14. Nov 29, 2019 #14

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    25,078
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    Partly raised above the current railroad bed and partly at the railroad grade, which is raised above the ground level east of Hunter. At Hunter, in a cut under the NJT connection to the Lehigh Valley Line and the Lehigh Valley Line and then at ground level as it approaches Newark Airport Rail Station.

    For details see: https://www.panynj.gov/path/pdf/PATH_Extension_Scoping_Document_November2017.pdf

    A quick Google search turns up many documents on the subject, some pretty hefty ones too. I have not read them, but they are out there. Focus appears to be more on La Guardia, but there is considerable material on JFK and EWR too. I have no idea how good or bad the contents are.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
  15. Nov 29, 2019 #15

    railiner

    railiner

    railiner

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,359
    Location:
    South Florida
    And the parallel NJ Turnpike built in the early 50’s confirms that...
     

Share This Page



arrow_white