New Viewliner order progress at CAF.

Discussion in 'Amtrak Rail Discussion' started by dlagrua, Mar 21, 2011.

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  1. Mar 21, 2011 #1

    dlagrua

    dlagrua

    dlagrua

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    I was just wondering if anyone has an update on the new Viewliners that Amtrak ordered from CAF. Has production been started? Are the designs the same as projected or were any last minute changes made? Have the toilets and sinks been deleted from the roomettes?

    A while back we had either a CAF employee or someone who had the inside track on what was happening in that facility on this forum. If he/she reads this perhaps we can satisfy our curiousity.
     
  2. Mar 21, 2011 #2

    printman2000

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    From what I understand, the in room toilets are for sure gone. Don't know about the sinks.
     
  3. Mar 21, 2011 #3

    Acela150

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    DARN!!! :lol: I enjoyed having a private toilet in my room. What about bedrooms?
     
  4. Mar 21, 2011 #4

    printman2000

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    Bedrooms will continue to have toilets and showers. Only the roomettes will lose the toilets.
     
  5. Mar 21, 2011 #5

    greatcats

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    While I like having a toilet in the room if it is just me, if I had a friend in the roomette with me and they were in bed and I had to use the facility, that would qualify as one of my definitions of "GROSS." I will not inflict my several other definitions on this forum, as this is a family audience.
     
  6. Mar 21, 2011 #6

    Guest

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    Just yet another example of the idiots running Amtrak. :eek:hboy:

    Hopefully, the roomette toilets can be retrofitted back in later. It would be a shame to have to scrape all these cars soon after delivery.
     
  7. Mar 21, 2011 #7

    Guest

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    "GROSS" is what the common use bathrooms can become. Just check out the bathrooms in coach after a long, long trip that's hours late. At least with your own toilet, you basically in full control over its cleanliness (or not).

    "GROSS" might also describe anyone noticing me now having to wander down the hall in my underwear, for my 2am leak. :eek:
     
  8. Mar 21, 2011 #8

    Green Maned Lion

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    Bunch of elementary school girls around here. "ewewewewewewwww!"
     
  9. Mar 21, 2011 #9

    AlanB

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    There are many more people who don't like having the open toilet in the Viewliner Roomette than do like it, hence the change by Amtrak. It will also reduce maintenance costs for Amtrak and cut down on the number of freeze-ups on the cars during the winter, since there will be fewer water pipes running around the bottom of the car.

    And no, the toilets cannot easily be retrofitted back in later. In fact, it's far more likely that the toilets will be removed from the exiting 50 cars, before they'd be added to the new cars.

    They also won't be scrapping the cars anytime soon because of this issue.
     
  10. Mar 21, 2011 #10

    Eric S

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    Idiots? Read the posts on here and you will quickly realize there is hardly a consensus either way as to whether the roomettes should or should not have individual toilet facilities. Given the lack of consensus, and the cost savings of having fewer toilet facilities, this hardly seems like an idiotic decision.

    And, why would the cars have to be "scraped" (scrapped?) soon after delivery?
     
  11. Mar 21, 2011 #11

    Ryan

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    In this case "idiot" translates to "doing something that I disagree with". With a family of 3, I'm not likely to use a roomette frequently, but if I were, I'd certainly rather the loo be down the hall unless I was traveling alone.
     
  12. Mar 21, 2011 #12

    VentureForth

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    I have never had an issue with regards to the cleanliness of a public restroom in sleeper class like I have in coach. I remember the last time I was in a Viewliner roomette, a lady kicked her kids out of the room so she could use the facility. Also, for some poor guy who has IBS... Never mind, I hope you get the picture.
    Now THAT may be a worthy rebuttal.
     
  13. Mar 21, 2011 #13

    Steve4031

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    And what about the status of the car order . . .
     
  14. Mar 21, 2011 #14

    jis

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    So then your position is that Amtrak should ignore feedback from its customers, which they have obtained through several surveys?

    It is indeed true that the roomette toilets are gone. Contrary to certain idle speculation the upper row windows are not gone. They will be there. Also the fluting on the side panels will be retained. There was a serious proposal to remove them that was rejected. All this from an Amtrak spokesperson at the ESPA/NARP New York Annual Meeting weekend before last in Schenectady NY.

    The roomette toilets will not be retrofitted. Indeed supposedly the current plan is to remove the roomette toilets from the existing Viewliners when they go in for major midlife overhaul.
     
  15. Mar 21, 2011 #15

    dlagrua

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    So far no one has addressed the topic of this post. If we wish to talk about roomette toilets they have been in roomettes for years and years and most find them a convenience. They are not "open" but have a sealed lead above. They were deleted to save MONEY!
     
  16. Mar 21, 2011 #16

    Eric S

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    "Most" may find them convenient, at least at certain times (when traveling alone, for instance). But, it is not clear that "most" would prefer that they be kept in the Viewliner IIs.
     
  17. Mar 21, 2011 #17

    Ryan

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    No, they were deleted because Amtrak's research showed that more passengers didn't want them than did.
     
  18. Mar 21, 2011 #18

    dlagrua

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    How about a friendly wager. Lets start a poll here and see what results. We have some seasoned rail passengers here that should verify or rebuke this claim. I cannot believe that most Amtrak travelers would not appreciate a toilet and sink in their roomette but I could be wrong. Now how do you start a poll?
     
  19. Mar 21, 2011 #19

    Ryan

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    A poll here would be next to worthless as it's in no way a representative sample of the traveling public.

    Amtrak did the research and has the data and a web poll on a forum really doesn't mean anything.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2011
  20. Mar 21, 2011 #20

    transit54

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    What purpose does the fluting serve and what were the pros/cons of removing it?
     
  21. Mar 21, 2011 #21

    Trogdor

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    Thousands of riders ride in roomettes without toilets every week (Superliners), yet, somehow, we survive to this day.
     
  22. Mar 21, 2011 #22

    AlanB

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    Even here if I had to hazzard a guess from past topics, it's probably about 50/50 for and against. I myself in fact am 50/50. When I'm traveling solo, I love having the toilet in the room. When I'm traveling with my mom, it's a royal pain having that toilet in the room.

    Yes, I'm sure that Amtrak isn't shedding any tears over the reduced costs, but that wasn't the primary reason for pulling the toilets out.

    Finally, I've not heard anything new regarding the status of the new cars. Frankly I don't expect to hear much either, since last I knew Amtrak was still waiting for Congress to approved the actual funds needed to complete the purchase. Therefore I doubt that little to any actual production work has started. They may have finalized all the plans and maybe ordered some of the tools that would be needed to build the cars, but I suspect that's about as far as its gone. I don't see CAF gearing up production until they know that Amtrak can actually pay the bill.
     
  23. Mar 21, 2011 #23

    jis

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    It is possible that these (or a significant part of them) may be paid for by a government guaranteed loan. The Amtrak guy mumbled something about Amtrak having reduced its total debt to below $2 billion from above $4 billion or some such when the matter came up at the Schenectady meeting. It may be the sort of deal that LaHood was offering NJT for some additional funds to cover ARC at one time. This is mere speculation on my part from various bits and pieces of info that I have come across.
     
  24. Mar 22, 2011 #24

    Green Maned Lion

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    My opinions on this subject being known, your comment is utter idiocy. If their cost people deleted the toilets for purely financial reasons, they deserve to be summarily executed. They are going to lose... say $150? per car per run, on average. Which means that if the Silver Meteor completes 365 round trips a year with three cars, they will lose $328k on that train alone. So they are losing $1.1 million a year on this move, or about $35 million over a 30 year depreciation cycle. Money saving indeed.
     
  25. Mar 22, 2011 #25

    PaulM

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    I got the rest of it. But you lost me with this statement. Whose they? Under what conditions? why?
     

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