New Canada-US Customs Pre-Clearance

Discussion in 'Amtrak Rail Discussion' started by DSS&A, Aug 20, 2019.

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

  1. Aug 20, 2019 #1

    DSS&A

    D

    DSS&A

    Lead Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2015
    Messages:
    319
    supportamtrak likes this.
  2. Aug 20, 2019 #2

    supportamtrak

    s

    supportamtrak

    Train Attendant AU Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2019
    Messages:
    24
    If MTR gets pre-clearance, this is going to cut 1 to 2 hours of travel (stalled) time on the Adirondack.
     
  3. Aug 20, 2019 #3

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    24,565
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    Someone has to get Quebec to pony up the money for building the facilities at Montreal Central first though. Of course getting this agreement in place is an important pre-requisite and it is good that it is finally in place.
     
  4. Aug 20, 2019 #4

    supportamtrak

    s

    supportamtrak

    Train Attendant AU Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2019
    Messages:
    24
    As far as I know, CBSA is still a branch of the Canadian Government, CBP the US and MTR is owned by a private company... So the role of the Quebec Government would be limited in scope if any, like showering a private company with tax breaks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  5. Aug 20, 2019 #5

    cocojacoby

    c

    cocojacoby

    Service Attendant

    Joined:
    May 13, 2014
    Messages:
    206
    This is great news, but I am not sure I understand the exact procedure. In Montreal there is going to be a separate customs facility. When you get off the train I can see that you easily can go through Canadian customs. But when you get on the train is there going to be US customs officials there?

    Also what about the station between the border and Montreal, St. Lambert?

    Hopefully this makes the return of the Montrealer immanent. This is a no-brainer and really needs to happen.

    Also maybe this helps with the concept of running a section of the Lake Shore/New England States through Canada which could be really interesting.
     
  6. Aug 20, 2019 #6

    railiner

    railiner

    railiner

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,180
    Location:
    South Florida
    I kind of doubt that the US would station personnel at St. Lambert for a few occasional passengers, so that stop may go away once preclearance is implemented.
    I suppose they could have an agent ride the train from Montreal to Rouses Point to check any passengers boarding at St. Lambert...
     
  7. Aug 20, 2019 #7

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    24,565
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    It has been mentioned in all documentation regarding instituting C&I at Gare Centrale in Montreal that the stop at St. Lambert will be discontinued. So it is not a question of "may go away". It "will go away". The train(s) will run "sealed" from/to Gare Centrale to/from the border, first stop in US - Rouses Point for the Adirondack, St. Albans for the extended Vermonter.

    The facilities needed at Gare Centrale has been designed and AFAIR signed off by the stake holders, but it is not yet fully funded.
     
  8. Aug 20, 2019 #8

    PVD

    P

    PVD

    Conductor AU Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,123
    Location:
    NYC/Queens
    I don't know for sure if it is still in place, but the border stop that occurred going South on the West Coast would no longer be necessary with 100% pre clearance. That may be the first impact on rail we see.
     
    Urban Sky likes this.
  9. Aug 20, 2019 #9

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    24,565
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    You mean the US CBP's ridiculous "we finalize customs check at the border" collection of the Customs forms at Blaine? I doubt that has anything to do with this, and nothing can stop CBP from coming up with new sillinesses either. o_O
     
  10. Aug 20, 2019 #10

    PVD

    P

    PVD

    Conductor AU Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,123
    Location:
    NYC/Queens
    I thought 100% pre-clearance, if implemented would eliminate that, like the airports. Not sure.
     
    supportamtrak likes this.
  11. Aug 20, 2019 #11

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    24,565
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    One would hope so, but CBP will do whatever suits them. It is not clear to me what is the purpose of that charade so it is hard to tell whether said purpose, whatever it is has changed any. The use of the phrase "full pre-clearance" as opposed to "pre-inspection" certainly brings hope of such streamlining.
     
  12. Aug 20, 2019 #12

    jiml

    jiml

    jiml

    Lead Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2019
    Messages:
    263
    Location:
    Toronto area
    Full pre-clearance when flying doesn't always mean full clearance. It doesn't take much for a pre-cleared plane from Canada to divert to the international terminal at the destination US airport for any irregularity. Doesn't happen often, but as a 2MM flyer I've experienced this a few times over the years - usually at JFK or MIA. You just hope your tiny jet has not arrived at the same time as a few wide-bodies from overseas. Also, some other countries with pre-clearance agreements - Ireland and Aruba come to mind - include only Immigration inspection, with Customs completed at the destination US airport.
     
  13. Aug 20, 2019 #13

    PRR 60

    PRR 60

    PRR 60

    Conductor Staff Member Administator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,217
    At least as far as Ireland is concerned (DUB and SNN), pre-clearance is full pre-clearance - immigration and customs. USA Arrivals from DUB and SNN are treated as domestic arrivals. Luggage checked through a USA connection is not claimed until the final destination.
     
  14. Aug 20, 2019 #14

    jiml

    jiml

    jiml

    Lead Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2019
    Messages:
    263
    Location:
    Toronto area
    As usual, your information is spot-on. I still won't be surprised if we see pre-clearance in Toronto Union for a non-stop-to-the-border Maple Leaf before Montreal gets their act together. I know you disagree on this, but the impending bustitution on the Canadian side of this route will be a test of VIA's longevity in the Niagara Falls market. Once GO achieves 4x daily VIA could exit the route and the Maple Leaf could very well run sealed.
     
  15. Aug 20, 2019 #15

    jiml

    jiml

    jiml

    Lead Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2019
    Messages:
    263
    Location:
    Toronto area
    I last flew from DUB on AA about 5 years ago. Cleared US Immigration there, but Customs was in Chicago. An AA representative ushered passengers past the initial set of booths in ORD, but we had to present our forms and discuss baggage content with Customs inspectors before proceeding to connections or baggage claim.
     
  16. Aug 20, 2019 #16

    PVD

    P

    PVD

    Conductor AU Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,123
    Location:
    NYC/Queens
    Full pre clearance from Canada at the airports is different than overseas. It has allowed baggage to be inspected and planes to fly to airports that don't regularly do Customs inspections for scheduled passenger flights. Toronto and Montreal to LaGuardia, your bags are inspected by US Customs allowed by treaty to work in Canada.
     
  17. Aug 20, 2019 #17

    PRR 60

    PRR 60

    PRR 60

    Conductor Staff Member Administator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,217
    DUB Airport Pre-clearance
    Aer Lingus
     
  18. Aug 20, 2019 #18

    jiml

    jiml

    jiml

    Lead Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2019
    Messages:
    263
    Location:
    Toronto area
    That has certainly been my understanding. Not every Canadian airport has pre-clearance either.
     
  19. Aug 20, 2019 #19

    jiml

    jiml

    jiml

    Lead Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2019
    Messages:
    263
    Location:
    Toronto area
    I'm not doubting you; just stating the case on my last flight - 5 years ago, and we were on the seasonal AA service - not Aer Lingus (who may be footing the bill for the service).
     
  20. Aug 20, 2019 #20

    PRR 60

    PRR 60

    PRR 60

    Conductor Staff Member Administator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,217
    I'm not doubting your experience 5 years ago, but simply stating that today full USA pre-clearance is offered at DUB and SNN with no need for a stop at customs inspection upon arrival in the USA. It is the same pre-clearance provided at select Canadian airports. All USA bound flights at DUB receive full pre-clearance except Ethiopian (ET) non-stops to LAX (due to terminal used at DUB) - now canceled.
     
  21. Aug 20, 2019 #21

    Anthony V

    Anthony V

    Anthony V

    Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Messages:
    168
    This good news should also help with getting service restored between Chicago, Detroit, and Toronto.
     
  22. Aug 21, 2019 #22

    railiner

    railiner

    railiner

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,180
    Location:
    South Florida
    What's this? First time I've heard of this...are you saying, VIA Rail will no longer participate in the operation of the Maple Leaf? That it will become an all-Amtrak train? o_O
     
  23. Aug 21, 2019 #23

    dogbert617

    d

    dogbert617

    OBS Chief

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Messages:
    649
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    They made you do the discussion about baggage content in Chicago O'Hare, and not over at the Dublin airport preclearance facility before boarding your plane? Since I flew into Ireland via Dublin and back via Dublin in 2017, and all the customs stuff was done over at the Dublin US customs preclearance facility, before you waited in that special terminal area to board your plane. And that once we landed in the US at O'Hare, it was nice not having to go through US customs, and be able to go straight to baggage claim.

    Hopefully this agreement, really does mean that finally the Montreal Amtrak/VIA combined station will finally get a preclearance facility.
     
  24. Aug 21, 2019 #24

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    24,565
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
  25. Aug 21, 2019 #25

    MikefromCrete

    M

    MikefromCrete

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    2,516
    Location:
    Crete, IL
    Well, since there are currently no plans for a pre-clearance facility in Toronto, I wouldn't place any bets on it happening soon. But, if GO Transit does increase service year round Toronto-Niagara Falls, I guess VIA might want to exit the market. But of course, that could mean a transfer between Amtrak and GO at Niagara Falls, Ont., or a bus transfer from New York to Ontario. Be careful of what you wish for.
     
    Urban Sky likes this.

Share This Page

arrow_white