Is there any update on the proposed customs entry at Gare Centrale in Montreal? As many of us Adirondack riders know during the customs check outside Rouses Point one problem delays the whole train.
Montreal customs station
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jis
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This is the latest that is known:
https://vtdigger.org/2019/08/15/preclearance-issues-extend-wait-for-rail-service-to-montreal/
Since Carl Fowler is one of the persons quoted, there probably is not much more that is known at present.
For now no further progress is likely until after the Canadian elections in October 2019. Funding is yet to be found and an agreement on cost sharing is yet to be thrashed out.
https://vtdigger.org/2019/08/15/preclearance-issues-extend-wait-for-rail-service-to-montreal/
Since Carl Fowler is one of the persons quoted, there probably is not much more that is known at present.
For now no further progress is likely until after the Canadian elections in October 2019. Funding is yet to be found and an agreement on cost sharing is yet to be thrashed out.
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jis
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More on the extension of the Vermonter to Montreal
https://trainsinthevalley.org/vermonter-extension-to-montreal/
https://trainsinthevalley.org/vermonter-extension-to-montreal/
neroden
Engineer
It seems that Montreal Central is owned by Cominar REIT. This is stupid... I hope the province buys it... but it probably shouldn't hold up anything; they should want more passenger traffic to allow them to raise the rents on the shops. The Government of Canada shouldn't cause any problems, since they approved the preliminary designs already.
I suspect the ball is in the court of the government of Quebec at the moment, since I haven't heard a word out of them at all. They probably have to provide funding.
I suspect the ball is in the court of the government of Quebec at the moment, since I haven't heard a word out of them at all. They probably have to provide funding.
That"s my understanding too. The go ahead is stuck in Quebec City.
Correct. Provincial government sees this being a federal and local matter, being of little benefit to the province as a whole.
That's it in a nutshell. However, NY-Montreal service obviously benefits both cities (and points between) greatly. Montreal is the economic engine and entry point for most non Quebecers into Quebec. But Quebec City is probably using the issue to squeeze money out of Ottawa. Whatever it is, having limited NYP-MTL service hurts Quebec and it's high time for the Federal-Provincial standoff to be resolved. More trains to and from the most important city in North America clearly benefits both governments.
NS VIA Fan
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Why would the Quebec Government buy Central Station? Makes perfect sense for a Real Estate REIT to own it. You would find that governments actually own little of the office space they occupy but have long term leases.
In 2008, CN originally sold their Headquarters Building and Central Station Complex to Homburg for $355 million and immediately took it all back in a long term lease. It generated cash for CN and gave the property to a REIT better suited to maintain and develop real estate.
There has been a lot of development over the years on air-rights above the CN tracks including Place Bonaventure, Place Ville Marie and the Queen Elizabeth Hotel.
http://www.vieux.montreal.qc.ca/plaque/horizon/gares/eng/gare_3a.htm
neroden
Engineer
The government should own it because it gives them freedom to reconfigure it for passenger operations purposes. This is why LA Metro bought LA Union from Catellus.
Management of space rented for purposes other than passenger and train operations would still be with a management company.
An REIT's idea of developing real estate is typically "destroy the tracks and waiting rooms, build retail and offices', which must be prevented. Of course private railroads like CN do the same thing, which is why there is now a track bottleneck just outside Toronto Union Station where the ROW was sold off for office construction by CN.
It is OK to sell off air rights above the level where tracks and passenger crossovers go, but the operational areas need to be owned by someone who manages them in the public interest.
Management of space rented for purposes other than passenger and train operations would still be with a management company.
An REIT's idea of developing real estate is typically "destroy the tracks and waiting rooms, build retail and offices', which must be prevented. Of course private railroads like CN do the same thing, which is why there is now a track bottleneck just outside Toronto Union Station where the ROW was sold off for office construction by CN.
It is OK to sell off air rights above the level where tracks and passenger crossovers go, but the operational areas need to be owned by someone who manages them in the public interest.
NS VIA Fan
Conductor
Quebec does not need to own a station. How are they going to buy the Gare Centrale Complex when they're having difficulty funding a small customs facility? Spend the taxpayers money where it's needed for health care, education and affordable housing.
The current REIT (and CN before) seem to have done quite well in space management of a railway station. Very little of the space shown in the Floorplan (below) from 1943 when Gare Centrale first opened is no longer being used for purposes other than passenger facilities or amenities. Item #1 then was a full service restaurant. It's now a Staples Store or....en francais 'Bureau en Gross'..... but a much larger area shown then as the 'North Parking Plaza' is now the 'Halles de la Gare' with numerous restaurants and shops providing eat-in or bring on-board snacks and meals for the passengers and commuters who pass through daily.
Here's the Gare Centrale and Halles de la Gare webpage:
https://garecentrale.ca/en/halles-de-la-gare
The 1943 Floorplan:
The Ticket and Baggage areas that once encroached into the high-ceiling concourse have now been pushed back into the low ceiling areas around the perimeter......and the telegraph/telephones are gone completely! Ticketing and Baggage certainly don't need the space that they once occupied. I can't remember the last time I went to a ticket counter!
And an interesting find on that 1943 floor plan......Item #25 is shown as 'US and Canadian Immigration'. There were a lot more US trains back then: CN/Central Vermont Rwy had the 'Montrealer/Washingtonian' to NY and Washington, the 'New Englander' and 'Ambasador' to/fr Boston and New York. The Rutland Railroad had the 'Green Mountain Flyer' and 'Mount Royal' to/fr Vermont, Boston and New York......and the Grand Trunk Railway had trains to Portland, Maine.
The new CBP/CBSA 'Preclearance Facility' now being proposed is roughly in the same area as that Item #25 in 1943 at the east end of the Concourse.
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Quebec does not need to own a station. How are they going to buy the Gare Centrale Complex when they're having difficulty funding a small customs facility? Spend the taxpayers money where it's needed for health care, education and affordable housing.
The current REIT (and CN before) seem to have done quite well in space management of a railway station. Very little of the space shown in the Floorplan (below) from 1943 when Gare Centrale first opened is no longer being used for purposes other than passenger facilities or amenities. Item #1 then was a full service restaurant. It's now a Staples Store or....en francais 'Bureau en Gross'..... but a much larger area shown then as the 'North Parking Plaza' is now the 'Halles de la Gare' with numerous restaurants and shops providing eat-in or bring on-board snacks and meals for the passengers and commuters who pass through daily.
Here's the Gare Centrale and Halles de la Gare webpage:
https://garecentrale.ca/en/halles-de-la-gare
The 1943 Floorplan:
The Ticket and Baggage areas that once encroached into the high-ceiling concourse have now been pushed back into the low ceiling areas around the perimeter......and the telegraph/telephones are gone completely! Ticketing and Baggage certainly don't need the space that they once occupied. I can't remember the last time I went to a ticket counter!
And an interesting find on that 1943 floor plan......Item #25 is shown as 'US and Canadian Immigration'. There were a lot more US trains back then: CN/Central Vermont Rwy had the 'Montrealer/Washingtonian' to NY and Washington, the 'New Englander' and 'Ambasador' to/fr Boston and New York. The Rutland Railroad had the 'Green Mountain Flyer' and 'Mount Royal' to/fr Vermont, Boston and New York......and the Grand Trunk Railway had trains to Portland, Maine.
The new CBP/CBSA 'Preclearance Facility' now being proposed is roughly in the same area as that Item #25 in 1943 at the east end of the Concourse.
Thank for the informative post once again proving that everything old is new again!
That is very interesting!
I recall that up until fairly recently (sometime in the '80's? not sure...), Grand Central Terminal had a small facility just past the gate to Track 34, that had a lighted sign for "US Customs"...
I believe that it was used way back, for collecting tax duties...again, not sure...
neroden
Engineer
Well, as long as the REIT is cooperative, that's OK. There's still a reason why LA bought Union Station from Catellus, and why Metro-North bought Grand Central from the corporate owner. Eventually the province will have to buy the station, but if the REIT is cooperative, no hurry.
The province has plenty of money (witness the insane REM scheme), they just have to agree to actually spend it on the customs station.
The province has plenty of money (witness the insane REM scheme), they just have to agree to actually spend it on the customs station.
jis
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I hope they can bring this plan to fruition. If Canada could find a way to pre-clear inbound travelers and give their security agents a course in basic human decency we'd be all set. Countries like Britain and Japan have similar rules and restrictions but I don't leave those experiences feeling attacked and unwanted. I understand that it's not always great for Canadians heading South either, but I think the best way to resolve this situation is to end the tit-for-tat mindset. Right now the US has a much more regressive immigration policy but penalizing American tourists isn't going to fix that. If anything making it easier and more welcoming to visit Canada might help promote the Canadian perspective.
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I did not look very hard, but I don;t think it has ever been posted here either before June 2020 when it was last updated, or after. So while it is not hot off he press, in a manner of speaking, it does have a nice status report of the voerall project, and a timeline of what it has been through so far, and a nice photo of a test run between St. Albans and Cantic.
If it feels old, please feel free to skip over it.
