July Changes to Lake Shore and Capitol Limited Dining

[iplaybass]

If we can keep the physical diners on the operating roster, and we can keep the LD trains running, there is always hope we can get full service diners back.

It's a matter of the mandate to make F&B essentially self-sufficient, and an airline CEO who thinks no trip should last more than six or seven hours, and that comfort during travel is overrated.

 

[Manny T]

Here's what it's like to travel overnight (from Budapest to Bucharest) without a dining car (or cafe, for that matter): check out 4:54 where the traveler almost "dies" without morning coffee, jumps off the train to get some at a station kiosk in Romania, and they won't accept his Hungarian money: youtube.com/watch?v=U30EVCFjeZc

Can't help thinking Amtrak is starting to resemble a post-Soviet eastern European passenger carrier...I hope not.

 

[TiBike]

Thanks for posting this - brought back memories. I took that route as far as Oradea, and back to Budapest, last year. The train I was on had a diner of sorts (and allowed roll-on bikes, for a nominal charge .

Amtrak and "post-Soviet eastern European passenger carrier" have a lot in common – level of cleanliness, service attitude and quality of "traditional" diner service for starters. In my experience, post-Soviet on time performance is better (but I don't know overall stats – the train in the video was an hour late). Much better frequency and choice of destinations on what we'd call corridors, though. In that regard, post-Soviet style service would be a step up.

Compared to the OBB Railjet that brought me to Budapest, though, "traditional" Amtrak and post-Soviet train service is pretty much the same.

Here's what it's like to travel overnight (from Budapest to Bucharest) without a dining car (or cafe, for that matter): check out 4:54 where the traveler almost "dies" without morning coffee, jumps off the train to get some at a station kiosk in Romania, and they won't accept his Hungarian money: youtube.com/watch?v=U30EVCFjeZc

Can't help thinking Amtrak is starting to resemble a post-Soviet eastern European passenger carrier...I hope not.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Thanks for posting this - brought back memories. I took that route as far as Oradea, and back to Budapest, last year. The train I was on had a diner of sorts (and allowed roll-on bikes, for a nominal charge .

Amtrak and "post-Soviet eastern European passenger carrier" have a lot in common – level of cleanliness, service attitude and quality of "traditional" diner service for starters. In my experience, post-Soviet on time performance is better (but I don't know overall stats – the train in the video was an hour late). Much better frequency and choice of destinations on what we'd call corridors, though. In that regard, post-Soviet style service would be a step up.

Compared to the OBB Railjet that brought me to Budapest, though, "traditional" Amtrak and post-Soviet train service is pretty much the same.

Here's what it's like to travel overnight (from Budapest to Bucharest) without a dining car (or cafe, for that matter): check out 4:54 where the traveler almost "dies" without morning coffee, jumps off the train to get some at a station kiosk in Romania, and they won't accept his Hungarian money: youtube.com/watch?v=U30EVCFjeZc

Can't help thinking Amtrak is starting to resemble a post-Soviet eastern European passenger carrier...I hope not.

You guys are sounding like Congressman Mica. He also called Amtrak a "Soviet" carrier --- and look that brought us.

 

[bratkinson]

Based on the previous pictures of the 'meal in a box', it looks like I'll get something hot in the lounge and stop on the way back to my roomette for a coffee or soda. I've got 2 nights on the Lakeshore Ltd and 1 on the Capitol Ltd in the next 2 months and there's no way I can fathom eating a gooey mess from a cellophane bag/wrapper. And the morning yogurt? When I eat that, it comes right back up.

Oh, and having to pay an estimated $60-70 built-in 'extra' for the cost of a real dining car meal and not getting it? I can only wonder how many of the once or twice per year sleeper passengers will put up with the cold garbage? Why do I say $60-70? Two people in a roomette both having steak dinner and bacon & eggs for breakfast. That's roughly the menu price of yore...

 

[Twinkletoes]

I just took the Lake Shore Limited last week in two legs: Chicago to Cleveland July 28th) and then Cleveland to Boston (July 1st) . I sampled the dinner and breakfast boxes on leg one. There was a huge box with a super thick paper napkin and silver colored plastic cutlery. The beef was odd appearing in the beef salad. It was formed beef product circles (approximate 3-inch diameter and 1/4-inch thickness) that looked like brown (beef) and white (fat) lace. Not attractive or tasty. I tried a bit despite the unappetizing appearance; gave up on it; and went to the dessert. It was OK, but nothing special. I hadn't planned to be around for breakfast since the scheduled arrival time was 5:30 am. This was no problem because the train did not arrive in Cleveland until 9:30 am! As others mentioned, you get a container of melon with a box of bread and two bars. I don't eat yogurt so the parfait was tossed out. The giant "blueberry" muffin was poorly made and had only a few blueberries that had sunk to the bottom. I am still looking and the banana bread still in its paper. I may open and taste it tomorrow.

I next took the Cleveland to Boston Lake Shore Limited. It was supposed to leave at 5:50 am but didn't leave until 9:44 am. (Eventually we got into Boston at 1:30 am instead of 8:00 pm). On the trip back, I knew better and chose not to eat out of the box: I grabbed a breakfast sandwich at Dunkin' up the street from the station. For my second meal, I just went to the snack coach and paid for a nice hot burger. My beverage was my complimentary sleeper beverage.

All things considered I'd rather they gave up the pretense of elegance of the green beribboned white box with lemon wet wipe. I felt like this was a big attempt to make us believe we had first class meal service. I would prefer cold conventional sandwiches like ham or tuna and maybe a microwave hamburger and breakfast sandwich options. Perhaps they could also consider an option that included a voucher or coupon to get something from the regular snack car.

I'll also mention that the compartment had a plastic container of toiletries --shower cap, shampoo, soap, body wash, sewing kit, make up accessories. Another "you no longer get a hot meal, but you're still special" ploy.

All things considered, I am more concerned about the extreme lateness. I like sleeper accommodations because of the bed and privacy. However if they still keep a diner car with tables (an option for eating ones box) and a server some limited microwave options should be considered such as the snack car burgers or pizza for dinner/lunch and cold cereal and milk or oatmeal for breakfast.

 

[Turtle]

I know this is a food thread, but the toiletries were mentioned so I thought I'd add a picture.

 

[cpotisch]

I just took the Lake Shore Limited last week in two legs: Chicago to Cleveland July 28th) and then Cleveland to Boston (July 1st) . I sampled the dinner and breakfast boxes on leg one. There was a huge box with a super thick paper napkin and silver colored plastic cutlery. The beef was odd appearing in the beef salad. It was formed beef product circles (approximate 3-inch diameter and 1/4-inch thickness) that looked like brown (beef) and white (fat) lace. Not attractive or tasty. I tried a bit despite the unappetizing appearance; gave up on it; and went to the dessert. It was OK, but nothing special. I hadn't planned to be around for breakfast since the scheduled arrival time was 5:30 am. This was no problem because the train did not arrive in Cleveland until 9:30 am! As others mentioned, you get a container of melon with a box of bread and two bars. I don't eat yogurt so the parfait was tossed out. The giant "blueberry" muffin was poorly made and had only a few blueberries that had sunk to the bottom. I am still looking and the banana bread still in its paper. I may open and taste it tomorrow.

Thank you for all that info, and I'm sorry to hear that you weren't exactly smitten with the meals you were served. One question, though: How did you end up with a dinner box on 448 on the first leg? Did they offer you food out of Chicago or something?

 

[dlagrua]

I find the elimination of hot meal service on the Eastern trains disheartening. If Amtrak must layoff, reassign the FSA's and downgrade the food, the solution may be to bring aboard pre-prepared meals that are heated in a convection oven by a single FSA as on the Cardinal. Those that have traveled aboard the Cardinal may agree that while the food is not top notch, it is IMO better than what you get in a cold boxed lunch. IMO, some FSA's have made the Cardinal food acceptable. One year we had an egg omelet and it was dry and rubbery. On the next trip that same omelet was moist and soft. The science is probably in the reheating time. To help the FSA with Cardnal type meals, Amtrak can request that used plates be discarded by the diners in a bin. The new Fresh Choices meal plan is certainly less than ideal so this suggestion for an upgrade could be be a compromise that can keep some passengers happy. As of now Amtrak travel without full dining service is off the list for us. If they want us back Amtrak needs to do better..

 

[bratkinson]

As of now Amtrak travel without full dining service is off the list for us. If they want us back Amtrak needs to do better..

I suspect those will be my sentiments as well after my upcoming trips on the Lakeshore and Capitol. Unfortunately, I live in New England, and getting to Chicago doesn't leave much choice. If the boxed meals 'spread' like I suspect they will, I'll start using my select plus status AGR points riding the Acela and go to Canada to ride REAL long distance trains with REAL food service.

 

[Skyline]

I find the elimination of hot meal service on the Eastern trains disheartening. If Amtrak must layoff, reassign the FSA's and downgrade the food, the solution may be to bring aboard pre-prepared meals that are heated in a convection oven by a single FSA as on the Cardinal. Those that have traveled aboard the Cardinal may agree that while the food is not top notch, it is IMO better than what you get in a cold boxed lunch. IMO, some FSA's have made the Cardinal food acceptable. One year we had an egg omelet and it was dry and rubbery. On the next trip that same omelet was moist and soft. The science is probably in the reheating time. To help the FSA with Cardnal type meals, Amtrak can request that used plates be discarded by the diners in a bin. The new Fresh Choices meal plan is certainly less than ideal so this suggestion for an upgrade could be be a compromise that can keep some passengers happy. As of now Amtrak travel without full dining service is off the list for us. If they want us back Amtrak needs to do better..

Can't argue with you, but just so you understand you may be doing exactly what Amtrak wants you to do -- quit riding certain LD trains. It fits perfectly with their agenda to only run shorter-distance "corridor" trains.

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

As of now Amtrak travel without full dining service is off the list for us. If they want us back Amtrak needs to do better..

I suspect those will be my sentiments as well after my upcoming trips on the Lakeshore and Capitol. Unfortunately, I live in New England, and getting to Chicago doesn't leave much choice. If the boxed meals 'spread' like I suspect they will, I'll start using my select plus status AGR points riding the Acela and go to Canada to ride REAL long distance trains with REAL food service.

I don't expect the "contemporary dining" to spread to two night nor two full day LD trains but should that happen, be prepared if you choose to travel THE CANADIAN to be minimum 12 hours late and frequently 24 hours late and in one case recently 45 hours late. As of my 14 hour late trip in February 2018, I did not find the normal sleeper fare dining room had as much variety as the Amtrak trains still using regular hot dining car meals. And the CANADIAN has introduced Prestige Class with fare of about $5000 per one way trip between Vancouver and Toronto and those passengers have exclusive use of the Park Dome Car during most of the daylight hours in season late April through October.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

Quality of the toiletries is a nice surprise--Gilchrist & Soames, established in London. (By the way, are they still British, or did someone buy them?)

If the boxed meals were the same quality as the toiletries, I would have no complaints.

 

[Skyline]

Quality of the toiletries is a nice surprise--Gilchrist & Soames, established in London. (By the way, are they still British, or did someone buy them?)

If the boxed meals were the same quality as the toiletries, I would have no complaints.

Yes, just so the toiletries don't BECOME the boxed meals!

 

[tommylicious]

FYI on the Facebook group "Amtrak Fans", there are 2 unequivocal condemnations by actual riders (with photos) experiencing this service. One of the reviewers has been riding since 1953 and says he's done riding Amtrak because of the negative, deprecated dining car experience.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Interesting Column by Ben Wear( His Column is called "Getting There") in Monday's 7/09 Austin American-Statesman entitled "Want to Dine on Amtrak? Better Get it while its Hot!"

It includes a nice picture of the Texas Eagle rolling thru the High Rises that surround the Amtrak Station in downtown Ausin.

After discussing the recent "Contemporary and Fresh Dining Choices" on the LakeShore and Cap, he quotes Amtrak Flak Marc Magliari as saying this will save Amtrak a Million Dollars a year, which is crumbs when it comes to the Federal Budget.

He goes on to talk about he and his family talking about taking a Long Distance Trip trip before its too late, and quotes Charles LeCody,CEO of the Rail Passenger Association, as predicting the demise of the Full Service Diner on ALL Amtrak Routes, with Airline style Heat and Eat Meals becoming the Norm.

Seems we're headed that way, nostalgia and hope won't prevent this, only action by concerned riders and political pressure by the real rulers of Amtrak in Washington and the various States, the Politicians!

 

[Palmetto]

Bob, I think you are referring to Peter Le Cody, correct?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Bob, I think you are referring to Peter Le Cody, correct?

Not sure, I used the name from the Column?

 

[bretton88]

Interesting Column by Ben Wear( His Column is called "Getting There") in Monday's 7/09 Austin American-Statesman entitled "Want to Dine on Amtrak? Better Get it while its Hot!"

It includes a nice picture of the Texas Eagle rolling thru the High Rises that surround the Amtrak Station in downtown Ausin.

After discussing the recent "Contemporary and Fresh Dining Choices" on the LakeShore and Cap, he quotes Amtrak Flak Marc Magliari as saying this will save Amtrak a Million Dollars a year, which is crumbs when it comes to the Federal Budget.

He goes on to talk about he and his family talking about taking a Long Distance Trip trip before its too late, and quotes Charles LeCody,CEO of the Rail Passenger Association, as predicting the demise of the Full Service Diner on ALL Amtrak Routes, with Airline style Heat and Eat Meals becoming the Norm.

Seems we're headed that way, nostalgia and hope won't prevent this, only action by concerned riders and political pressure by the real rulers of Amtrak in Washington and the various States, the Politicians!

It's not crumbs when you're under a federal mandate to eliminate food and beverage losses.

 

[dogbert617]

Interesting Column by Ben Wear( His Column is called "Getting There") in Monday's 7/09 Austin American-Statesman entitled "Want to Dine on Amtrak? Better Get it while its Hot!"

It includes a nice picture of the Texas Eagle rolling thru the High Rises that surround the Amtrak Station in downtown Ausin.

After discussing the recent "Contemporary and Fresh Dining Choices" on the LakeShore and Cap, he quotes Amtrak Flak Marc Magliari as saying this will save Amtrak a Million Dollars a year, which is crumbs when it comes to the Federal Budget.

He goes on to talk about he and his family talking about taking a Long Distance Trip trip before its too late, and quotes Charles LeCody,CEO of the Rail Passenger Association, as predicting the demise of the Full Service Diner on ALL Amtrak Routes, with Airline style Heat and Eat Meals becoming the Norm.

Seems we're headed that way, nostalgia and hope won't prevent this, only action by concerned riders and political pressure by the real rulers of Amtrak in Washington and the various States, the Politicians!

On some recent Amtrak thread on flyertalk.com , a rider said that an Amtrak employee on one of the long distance trains overheard a manager or someone higher up say that if the revised dining service was implemented successfully, that it might be done on all Amtrak long distance trains that still have regular dining service.

Sigh, since that'd take away a lot of the appeal of riding on Amtrak(the dining car). I'm hoping the LSL/Capitol Limited experiment fails, and that they don't implement dining car service cuts on all long distance trains. But who knows? I guess I will have to get used to that, since I already have seen slow signs of this more and more happening(i.e. reading about LSL/Capitol having downgraded dining service, Silver Star, and of course the fact Hiawatha no longer has a cafe car. at least that trip is short, so it wasn't as hard as I thought to get used to that change as often I take my own snacks on anyway).

Interesting Column by Ben Wear( His Column is called "Getting There") in Monday's 7/09 Austin American-Statesman entitled "Want to Dine on Amtrak? Better Get it while its Hot!"

It includes a nice picture of the Texas Eagle rolling thru the High Rises that surround the Amtrak Station in downtown Ausin.

After discussing the recent "Contemporary and Fresh Dining Choices" on the LakeShore and Cap, he quotes Amtrak Flak Marc Magliari as saying this will save Amtrak a Million Dollars a year, which is crumbs when it comes to the Federal Budget.

He goes on to talk about he and his family talking about taking a Long Distance Trip trip before its too late, and quotes Charles LeCody,CEO of the Rail Passenger Association, as predicting the demise of the Full Service Diner on ALL Amtrak Routes, with Airline style Heat and Eat Meals becoming the Norm.

Seems we're headed that way, nostalgia and hope won't prevent this, only action by concerned riders and political pressure by the real rulers of Amtrak in Washington and the various States, the Politicians!

I should find that article, and read that for myself. Sadly I worry that writer is right, that one of these days it probably will occur on all Amtrak long distance trains with traditional dining car service.

I hope I'm proven wrong, but who knows? Still with what I read about the waste generated even from dining car service downgrades(i.e. the example someone mentioned that cheesecake is served in a real glass MASON JAR, ***?), that Amtrak is going down the wrong path with this LSL/Cap downgraded dining car experiment. I probably should've tried a meal in that dining car when I went on the last day of traditional dining service on May 31st(coming back from Pittsburgh to Chicago), but had some leftovers from a meal I had at a Pittsburgh restaurant the night before and only reason I didn't go to the dining car. Ah well, maybe I'll get another chance to eat out of the dining car, on one of the trains that goes west of Chicago while I still can on a future Amtrak trip before the end of this year.

I am still worried so darned much that the Southwest Chief will be cut in southern Colorado and northern New Mexico, so I'm already very strongly thinking about some sort of trip on that route(at least to Albuquerque, if not all the way further west) before the end of this year. Why anyway hasn't Amtrak talked about rerouting the train onto the BNSF Transcon through Amarillo, TX, rather than the stupid idea of bus bridging the 2 ends service will only go to if they are foolish enough to do that? This was talked about, if Amtrak hadn't had secured funds to upgrade the track conditions in western Kansas, Colorado, and northern New Mexico a few years ago.

 

[Manny T]

" I'm hoping the LSL/Capitol Limited experiment fails...." (previous post)

I have a question about this. How can the LSL/Cap Ltd experiment "fail"? It was designed to save money, and it will save money. Success! I don't see how any collateral damage, like decreased rider satisfaction, will matter. And if there is a decline in ridership on those lines, I very much doubt it will be attributed to the food service changes. No, I fear the experiment was a "success" the moment it was implemented, from the Amtrak accountants' POV.

 

[cpotisch]

" I'm hoping the LSL/Capitol Limited experiment fails...." (previous post)

I have a question about this. How can the LSL/Cap Ltd experiment "fail"? It was designed to save money, and it will save money. Success! I don't see how any collateral damage, like decreased rider satisfaction, will matter. And if there is a decline in ridership on those lines, I very much doubt it will be attributed to the food service changes. No, I fear the experiment was a "success" the moment it was implemented, from the Amtrak accountants' POV.

If ridership drops clearly and significantly enough to more than compensate for the $3.4M saved by the new system, it is theoretically possible that they see it as a failure and go back to the old system. Is it very likely? No. But it's possible.

 

[jis]

That will be a more meaningful criterion for the Cap. The LSL is going through such serious differences in operation through this summer that it will be very hard to uniquely attribute any ridership changes to food service IMHO.

 

[cpotisch]

That will be a more meaningful criterion for the Cap. The LSL is going through such serious differences in operation through this summer that it will be very hard to uniquely attribute any ridership changes to food service IMHO.

Quite true. At this point I'm more wishing that the other trains don't get the treatment than having the LSL and Cap go back to the old system. I can (possibly) put up with this for a 17-21 hour ride. But for a two or three night ride, I just can't do it.

 

[keelhauled]

The new version of the menu is up. The beef entree is described as "Slow braised beef short rib with polenta and mixed baby vegetables in a red wine and beer sauce. Served with arcadian lettuce mix, julienne carrots and grape tomatoes with balsamic vinaigrette and salted caramel cheese cake."