Hurricane Sandy and Amtrak.

[jis]

Alan they have been doing a bunch of real weird routines through Harold ever since the storm. Maybe they got used to being weird

 

[jis]

The Kearny substation which was taken down by floods, and which supplies power to the NEC between Newark and New York will be coming back on line on the 16th of November thus restoring full power to the NEC allowing further service expansion to full normal schedules, modulo of course the East River Tunnel restrictions due to Absolute Block operation between Penn Station and F on tracks 1 and 2, with automatics out in those tunnels.

http://www.amtrak.co...T-Statement.pdf

 

[PRR 60]

The Kearny substation which was taken down by floods, and which supplies power to the NEC between Newark and New York will be coming back on line on the 16th of November thus restoring full power to the NEC allowing further service expansion to full normal schedules, modulo of course the East River Tunnel restrictions due to Absolute Block operation between Penn Station and F on tracks 1 and 2, with automatics out in those tunnels.

http://www.amtrak.co...T-Statement.pdf

I guess that nasty 25Hz stuff was not such a big deal after all.

 

[jis]

The Kearny substation which was taken down by floods, and which supplies power to the NEC between Newark and New York will be coming back on line on the 16th of November thus restoring full power to the NEC allowing further service expansion to full normal schedules, modulo of course the East River Tunnel restrictions due to Absolute Block operation between Penn Station and F on tracks 1 and 2, with automatics out in those tunnels.

http://www.amtrak.co...T-Statement.pdf

I guess that nasty 25Hz stuff was not such a big deal after all.

Of course not. That was mostly much hoo-ha about nothing. Amtrak has to get most of the 25Hz stuff from Europe as it turns out anyway, specially when it comes to frequency converters and such, as we were told by the Amtrak Engineer in charge of uprating the Metuchen Converter station. I am sure it is not that hard to obtain a 25Hz transformer. PRR you would know this better than anyone else here, but at least the Physics of it suggests that a 60Hz transformer should be operable at a lower power rating at 25Hz with relatively minor changes. So it is not like one has to start constructing a new transformer starting from the core after one receives an order for a 25Hz transformer, and the switchgear should mostly be frequency insensitive, unless I am missing something big. Hey worst case just haul in an off the shelf 16.67Hz transformer from DB's suppliers and run with it.

 

[PRR 60]

The Kearny substation which was taken down by floods, and which supplies power to the NEC between Newark and New York will be coming back on line on the 16th of November thus restoring full power to the NEC allowing further service expansion to full normal schedules, modulo of course the East River Tunnel restrictions due to Absolute Block operation between Penn Station and F on tracks 1 and 2, with automatics out in those tunnels.

http://www.amtrak.co...T-Statement.pdf

I guess that nasty 25Hz stuff was not such a big deal after all.

Of course not. That was mostly much hoo-ha about nothing. Amtrak has to get most of the 25Hz stuff from Europe as it turns out anyway, specially when it comes to frequency converters and such, as we were told by the Amtrak Engineer in charge of uprating the Metuchen Converter station. I am sure it is not that hard to obtain a 25Hz transformer. PRR you would know this better than anyone else here, but at least the Physics of it suggests that a 60Hz transformer should be operable at a lower power rating at 25Hz with relatively minor changes. So it is not like one has to start constructing a new transformer starting from the core after one receives an order for a 25Hz transformer, and the switchgear should mostly be frequency insensitive, unless I am missing something big. Hey worst case just haul in an off the shelf 16.67Hz transformer from DB's suppliers and run with it.

I don't have any insider info, but I doubt they even needed transformers. Power transformers are tightly-sealed to keep the oil in and water out. They typically survive flooding only needed a good power washing. Breakers are a different issue, but 60Hz breakers will work at 25Hz with just minor rating adjustments. Floods tend to play the most havoc with the protection and control system - instrument transformers, microprocessor relays, cables and connectors, and stuff like that. The items that cannot be simply cleaned and put back, are largely off the shelf, particularly in an emergency.

 

[transit54]

The Kearny substation which was taken down by floods, and which supplies power to the NEC between Newark and New York will be coming back on line on the 16th of November thus restoring full power to the NEC allowing further service expansion to full normal schedules, modulo of course the East River Tunnel restrictions due to Absolute Block operation between Penn Station and F on tracks 1 and 2, with automatics out in those tunnels.

Is there any estimate on the repair of the signaling in the East River Tunnels to return that to normal condition? Is there an idea of how much work needs to be done?

 

[jis]

Is there any estimate on the repair of the signaling in the East River Tunnels to return that to normal condition? Is there an idea of how much work needs to be done?

Don't have details, but I have heard from usually reliable sources that essentially a substantial portion of the system has to be taken out, cleaned and some parts replaced and then reassembled. Several weeks to months is what I have heard, but of course those can change depending on priority setting and funding.

 

[Nathanael]

Great relief. I guess they didn't have as much damage as they originally thought, and they don't have to manufacture new 25 Hz parts.

I was too pessimistic. I do that.

 

[jis]

Great relief. I guess they didn't have as much damage as they originally thought, and they don't have to manufacture new 25 Hz parts.

I was too pessimistic. I do that.

The point is that even if they had to find 25Hz parts it would not have delayed things significantly more than for finding 60Hz parts, or at least that is what the Amtrak project engineer dealing with such stuff tells me. But of course one could say since he is already tainted being one who works for Amtrak we shall not believe what he says I suppose.

 

[A. Manley]

I am writing this post in the hopes that someone high up in the Amtrak Management Team will actually read it and respond with an approproate gesture. I had booked travel from Richmond, VA to Providence, RI back in June of this year for Nov. 2 to Nov. 4 round trip. I followed up with Amtrak several days before due to concerns that Hurricane Sandy would disrupt rail service during that period. On the last day before the trip I was informed that CSX had terminated rail service above Philadeplhia, PA and that I should have NO TROUBLE WHATSOEVER getting a refund on my tickets as a result. I asked for the refund and was told that the money would be put back into my account between 3 days and 1 week from my request, which I accepted. I then expended more funds (which we really couldn't afford at the time) tanking up our vehicle and made the entire trip without incident (this was an emergency family trip to visit a dying relative). I checked our house account to see if the money had been returned after we made it back home, and of course it hadn't.

I called Amtrak at 1800-USA-RAIL and spoke to a representative who informed me that the transaction was not processed as a refund but rather an e-voucher to be used at a later date. I informed her of our financial status and requested the money be returned to us instead of a voucher, and she said she would put through the request for me. I then waited another 4 days.

Nothing happened.

I called back and asked to speak to a Billing Dept. representative who informed me that the voucher was NOT processed and was still on hold for use. I re-explained to him our situation and how we were told rail service was cancelled on us, and he said he would personally go through this again and see that it gets returned back to us as a refund. I hung up with him and waited until today (Nov. 15th), periodically checking our account for the needed funds.

Nothing. Yet again.

I just got off the phone with a billing representative who informed me that I had purchased these tkts, back in June, as NON-REFUNDABLE RAIL SERVICE TICKETS, and that the rail lines WERE OPEN DURING THE TIME AMTRAK HAD SUPPOSEDLY CANCELLED THE TRAVEL SERVICE.

THIS IS A LIE SINCE PENN STATION IN NEW YORK CITY WAS UNDERWATER FOR DAYS FOLLOWING THE HURRICANE, AND I WAS INFORMED THAT AMTRAK WAS NOT RUNNING ANY SORT OF SHUTTLE SERVICE TO BYPASS THE CLOSED OUT AREAS.

So, now I have useless E-vouchers for a rail service I will NEVER AGAIN USE due to dishonesty and deceit caused by your customer service center. I will be posting this across as many local and US. News services as possible so that people can be made aware of Amtrak's policies regarding lying to its customers.

I don't expect I will ever receive an answer back from this company. I don't expect I will ever see my $249 back for my unused e-tickets. And I DON'T EXPECT to EVER DEAL WITH AMTRAK AGAIN IF I CAN HELP IT.

 

[PRR 60]

I am writing this post in the hopes that someone high up in the Amtrak Management Team will actually read it and respond with an approproate gesture. I had booked travel from Richmond, VA to Providence, RI back in June of this year for Nov. 2 to Nov. 4 round trip. I followed up with Amtrak several days before due to concerns that Hurricane Sandy would disrupt rail service during that period. On the last day before the trip I was informed that CSX had terminated rail service above Philadeplhia, PA and that I should have NO TROUBLE WHATSOEVER getting a refund on my tickets as a result. I asked for the refund and was told that the money would be put back into my account between 3 days and 1 week from my request, which I accepted. I then expended more funds (which we really couldn't afford at the time) tanking up our vehicle and made the entire trip without incident (this was an emergency family trip to visit a dying relative). I checked our house account to see if the money had been returned after we made it back home, and of course it hadn't.

I called Amtrak at 1800-USA-RAIL and spoke to a representative who informed me that the transaction was not processed as a refund but rather an e-voucher to be used at a later date. I informed her of our financial status and requested the money be returned to us instead of a voucher, and she said she would put through the request for me. I then waited another 4 days.

Nothing happened.

I called back and asked to speak to a Billing Dept. representative who informed me that the voucher was NOT processed and was still on hold for use. I re-explained to him our situation and how we were told rail service was cancelled on us, and he said he would personally go through this again and see that it gets returned back to us as a refund. I hung up with him and waited until today (Nov. 15th), periodically checking our account for the needed funds.

Nothing. Yet again.

I just got off the phone with a billing representative who informed me that I had purchased these tkts, back in June, as NON-REFUNDABLE RAIL SERVICE TICKETS, and that the rail lines WERE OPEN DURING THE TIME AMTRAK HAD SUPPOSEDLY CANCELLED THE TRAVEL SERVICE.

THIS IS A LIE SINCE PENN STATION IN NEW YORK CITY WAS UNDERWATER FOR DAYS FOLLOWING THE HURRICANE, AND I WAS INFORMED THAT AMTRAK WAS NOT RUNNING ANY SORT OF SHUTTLE SERVICE TO BYPASS THE CLOSED OUT AREAS.

So, now I have useless E-vouchers for a rail service I will NEVER AGAIN USE due to dishonesty and deceit caused by your customer service center. I will be posting this across as many local and US. News services as possible so that people can be made aware of Amtrak's policies regarding lying to its customers.

I don't expect I will ever receive an answer back from this company. I don't expect I will ever see my $249 back for my unused e-tickets. And I DON'T EXPECT to EVER DEAL WITH AMTRAK AGAIN IF I CAN HELP IT.

As you probably know, this site is not owned or operated by Amtrak. So, there is nothing any of us can do directly other than sympathize, give you some advice, and hope that someone that does work for Amtrak reads your post and can make things right.

It turns out that November 2 was the first day that Amtrak was able to run any service between New York and Providence, and even then, it was only a couple of trains. I can’t see how Amtrak could hold you to the non-refundable restriction of your fare given the extraordinary circumstances of the storm. My suggestion is to call back to Amtrak and ask specifically to speak to Customer Relations. Those are the folks that have some power to make changes (the regular phone agents have little or no power). Explain to Customer Relations that Amtrak told you prior to your travel date that there was no assurance that your November 2 train was going to operate, that you had to make alternate travel arrangements, and that Amtrak agents told you that your fare would be refunded. See what the Customer Relations folks say.

 

[A. Manley]

Calling them now. I also received phone numbers for Amtrak's Inspector General for investigating customer claims as well as my local senator's office John Warner who is part of the travel board here in Virginia, so if Customer Relations will do nothing about this, they can. According to a native New Yorker and friend of mine, Amtrak has always been allowed to refund even non-refundable tickets in cases of "Act Of God" situations, and this most definitely counts as that condition. And as far as track service opening on the day we were leaving out? You are right, VERY LIMITED rail service was finally permitted in the late afternoon/evening hours, but our service was in the morning, around 06:30AM to be exact. This is why the reservations office told us to go ahead and cancel our tickets now (late evening Nov. 1st) without penalty so we could receive our funds back quicker.

 

[gatelouse]

A. Manley,

While I don't mean to be insensitive to your situation, there are a couple of inconsistencies in your narrative. First, you mentioned the trip was for a family emergency, yet it was booked 5 months ago? Second, I'm having trouble understanding how a $249 r/t fare RVR-PVD is non refundable. The primary (only?) non-refundable tickets on the NEC are the 14-day advance purchase fares, which for RVR-PVD run about $70 each way for an adult, $35 for a child. It's not mathematically possible to come up with a combination resulting in ~$250.

What probably happened was that the first agent you spoke with didn't actually refund your ticket, causing you to no-show for your train, resulting in an automatic eVoucher. Turning this into a refund ought to be no problem given your Nov 2 travel date.

BTW who told you that CSX had shut down service north of Philly?

 

[johnny.menhennet]

While I don't mean to be insensitive to your situation, there are a couple of inconsistencies in your narrative. First, you mentioned the trip was for a family emergency, yet it was booked 5 months ago?

This was crossing my mind as well. I have no idea where he would've gotten CSX either. Even some of the worst Amtrak agents would know better than that.

 

[NE933]

On my Keystone, one of the first to resume after the storm, i noticed the outside local tracks in Jersey had a strong, consistant coating of rust on the top wheel surface. All rail traffic ceased for two or three days and of course the heavy rains fell. But does oes rust oxidation occur that rapidly?

 

[Ryan]

On unprotected metal? Certainly.

 

[CHamilton]

Exclusive: New Jersey railway put trains in Sandy flood zone despite warnings

NEW YORK (Reuters) - New Jersey Transit's struggle to recover from Superstorm Sandy is being compounded by a pre-storm decision to park much of its equipment in two rail yards that forecasters predicted would flood, a move that resulted in damage to one-third of its locomotives and a quarter of its passenger cars.

That damage is likely to cost tens of millions of dollars and take many months to repair, a Reuters examination has found.

 

[CHamilton]

NJ Transit Assailed for Lack of Information, Poor Planning

New Jersey’s commuter rail system returned to its normal schedule on several lines today, but delays continue to hamper commuters, and three weeks after Sandy, there are still questions about how well prepared the agency was for the storm.

While the NYC MTA, the agency that runs the New York subway system, has received high marks for preparation and response to the unprecedented flooding, NJ Transit has drawn the ire of its riders for a slower restoration of service and a lag in communicating what was working and what wasn’t so that New Jersey commuters could plan their altered, and lengthened commutes.

Josh Crandall who created a website called Clever Commute, where people share information about NJ Transit delays with each other because traditionally that information hasn’t been provided by NJ Transit fast enough. He was hearing from a lot of people who were upset by the lack of communication.

 

[CHamilton]

Post-Sandy Fixes To NYC Subways To Cost Billions

Metropolitan Transportation Authority Chairman Joe Lhota – testified in Washington on Thursday before a Senate subcommittee about the extent of the damage.
"We're nowhere near normal operations. It's important to remember that hundreds of millions of gallons saltwater completely inundated our system that's over 100 years old. We will be feeling effects of this storm for months if not years to come," Lhota said.

Lhota estimates it will cost $5 billion to get the subway system back to where it was before Sandy.