Viewliner
Engineer
I know that today trains use Head End Power, which is from the locomotives, but what about steam heat? What was Steam Heat like? How did it Work? What were the advantages/disadvantages.
HEP and Steam Heat
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I wasn't around for the steam era but I did ask the "old timers" about it. While we no longer have the boiler on site, the steam pipes are still overhead at the Hialeah facility.
Everyone who worked with it says it was very dangerous working with live steam. When the steam lines were connected and disconnected, it was common to get small burns, even with heavy gloves on. Every now and then, a cut-off valve would break internally and while it looked closed, the person disconnecting the line would get burned from the steam and require medical treatment.
B)
Everyone who worked with it says it was very dangerous working with live steam. When the steam lines were connected and disconnected, it was common to get small burns, even with heavy gloves on. Every now and then, a cut-off valve would break internally and while it looked closed, the person disconnecting the line would get burned from the steam and require medical treatment.
B)
Viewliner
Engineer
Are you talking about the Heritage Cars?Miami Joe said:
If you are, it makes sense, It's safer, but did it improve the interior conditions?
Amfleet
Engineer
The Heritage cars never had steam heat and that was one point of the rebuild program, getting rid of it. I'm sure after 30 years on the rails the streamliners interior conditions were pretty bad.
Back up Amfleet!!!
Amtrak's Heritage cars were steam!!! Amtrak was using SDP-40's with steam generators until the late 70's. The whole consist of the train was Heritage equipment from the loco back.
The steam was between 120 to 150 psi and was regulated on each car with a flow valve. The coaches had one themostat inside and the sleepers had a thermostat in each room.
The guys say that when the train was ready for revenue and a last minute repair was being done underneath, the spitter valves would drip wet steam and get you if you weren't paying attention!!!
The purpose behind the rebuild was the delivery of AMF I cars and the introduction of HEP. Remember that the cars also had power generators running off "Spicer" gears.
B)
Amtrak's Heritage cars were steam!!! Amtrak was using SDP-40's with steam generators until the late 70's. The whole consist of the train was Heritage equipment from the loco back.
The steam was between 120 to 150 psi and was regulated on each car with a flow valve. The coaches had one themostat inside and the sleepers had a thermostat in each room.
The guys say that when the train was ready for revenue and a last minute repair was being done underneath, the spitter valves would drip wet steam and get you if you weren't paying attention!!!
The purpose behind the rebuild was the delivery of AMF I cars and the introduction of HEP. Remember that the cars also had power generators running off "Spicer" gears.
B)
Amfleet
Engineer
Wait, the cars weren't called Heritage until they got converted to HEP, I though. I knew that the "streamliners" had been using steam up to the late 70's.
I'm just the messenger!!! <_<
Give me some time, I gotta go ask the "old timer" about the name change.
I thought that was the original name supplied by the vendor!!
Back in a half-hour!!! Gotta do some A/C work on a coach!!
B)
Give me some time, I gotta go ask the "old timer" about the name change.
I thought that was the original name supplied by the vendor!!
Back in a half-hour!!! Gotta do some A/C work on a coach!!
B)
Viewliner
Engineer
I think we can agree that they weren't referred to "Heritage Fleet" pre-Amtrak. However between 5/1/71 and the HEP change the name is unknown.Amfleet said:
Getting back to the topic what did the HEP change do for the Passengers?
For the last 30 years, they have been known as Heritage cars. I think this was the name of the car design and it was given by the vendor. All the prints for the car refer to them as Heritage.
What did HEP do for the customer?
It provided continous power during the trip, but the "kicker"was when the train came to a full stop.
Before HEP, the power for the lighting and A/C on the cars was supplied by generators that were driven by the axle on the truck assy. They were connected by belts,"spicer" gears and used clutches. When the train came to a stop, the clutch would release and the lights and A/C would stay on until the generator wound down. When the train pulled out, the clutches would engage around 8mph and the lights and A/C would come back on.
Before HEP, dry ice was used on the diners and would be loaded thru the roof. Open the hatches, drop the blocks down a chute and the ice would load into the coolers.
B)
What did HEP do for the customer?
It provided continous power during the trip, but the "kicker"was when the train came to a full stop.
Before HEP, the power for the lighting and A/C on the cars was supplied by generators that were driven by the axle on the truck assy. They were connected by belts,"spicer" gears and used clutches. When the train came to a stop, the clutch would release and the lights and A/C would stay on until the generator wound down. When the train pulled out, the clutches would engage around 8mph and the lights and A/C would come back on.
Before HEP, dry ice was used on the diners and would be loaded thru the roof. Open the hatches, drop the blocks down a chute and the ice would load into the coolers.
B)
Viewliner
Engineer
Thanks Joe, you basically answered all of my questions. Although I do find on occasion the train will lose HEP either pulling in or out of stations, which are only breif.
Amfleet
Engineer
This Heritage thing still confuses me. When Amtrak took over rail operations on 5/1/71 they inherited equipment from all the private railroads. So how could the Heritage name been given to Amtrak by a vendor when there was no vendor. 
OK, since Heritage fleet is my favorite equipment, I will try to clarify some of the confusion. I hope.
The term "Heritage Fleet" refers to the fleet of Amtrak cars that were converted from steam heat to head end power. The cars that received this conversion came from the cars that Amtrak inherited at its start. The Heritage Fleet consisted of single level diners, coaches, dome coaches, sleepers, and on a few runs, slumbercoaches. They operated only east of Chicago, and before the superliners were put on the City of New Orleans, on that train too.
I first rode in an heritage fleet coach in the fall of 1979 on a trip with my Dad. We returned from Washington, D.C. on the cardinal. Passenger Train Journal hailed the conversion of each train from steam heat equipment to Heritage fleeet equipment. I think all trains were converted by 1980 0r 1981. This, as far as I was concerned, was the prime time to ride coach on Amtrak east of Chicago. The Heritage Fleet coaches had comfortable reclining seats and the big windows. They were new, but retained some of my favorite touches from the old equipment. such as restroom lounges, and the ability to hear the cllckety clack of wheels on jointed rail. The toilests also allowed a brief glimpse of the track during flushing.
I hope this answers most of the questions.
The term "Heritage Fleet" refers to the fleet of Amtrak cars that were converted from steam heat to head end power. The cars that received this conversion came from the cars that Amtrak inherited at its start. The Heritage Fleet consisted of single level diners, coaches, dome coaches, sleepers, and on a few runs, slumbercoaches. They operated only east of Chicago, and before the superliners were put on the City of New Orleans, on that train too.
I first rode in an heritage fleet coach in the fall of 1979 on a trip with my Dad. We returned from Washington, D.C. on the cardinal. Passenger Train Journal hailed the conversion of each train from steam heat equipment to Heritage fleeet equipment. I think all trains were converted by 1980 0r 1981. This, as far as I was concerned, was the prime time to ride coach on Amtrak east of Chicago. The Heritage Fleet coaches had comfortable reclining seats and the big windows. They were new, but retained some of my favorite touches from the old equipment. such as restroom lounges, and the ability to hear the cllckety clack of wheels on jointed rail. The toilests also allowed a brief glimpse of the track during flushing.
I hope this answers most of the questions.
The name wasn't given to Amtrak.
It's the name of a series of cars, like when Budd gave the name "Amfleet" to it's design. AmerRail could design a new car and call it the "GrandView". If Amtrak sold it's V/L's to VIA, they would still be V/L's.
When Alaska RR bought the FFT cars, the consist is now the "GrandView". The cars are still refered to as Rader II cars.
There are a few cars from different manufacturers that have been "adopted" and fall into the Heritage catagory.
B)
It's the name of a series of cars, like when Budd gave the name "Amfleet" to it's design. AmerRail could design a new car and call it the "GrandView". If Amtrak sold it's V/L's to VIA, they would still be V/L's.
When Alaska RR bought the FFT cars, the consist is now the "GrandView". The cars are still refered to as Rader II cars.
There are a few cars from different manufacturers that have been "adopted" and fall into the Heritage catagory.
B)
Allen Dee
Lead Service Attendant
Let's not forget the Hi-level ex-Santa Fe "El Capitan" cars that were often included in Superliner consists.Steve4031 said:
These were all originally steam-heated and converted to HEP.
The only cars from this fleet that I have seen in recent years are the Pacific Parlour cars on the Coast Starlight.
Viewliner
Engineer
Good example, however Amerail is gone to the best of my knowledge.Miami Joe said:
OH yeah, love those hi levels too. Dont now how I forgot those.
Before Amtrak, the private railroads by and large did not have anything comparable to the "make" or "model" names of today, like Amfleet, Superliner,VIewliner, etc. One big exception: Metroliner. Maybe a few small exceptions or two during the years.
Come Amtrak. All equipment was inherited from the railroads at first.
At some point probablywithin the first one or two years, Amtrak began refurbishing,reconditiong its old cars and converting them to HELP. Just as Steve4031 describes. This would jive with what Miami Joe said about heritage being around about 30 years.
Those cars were called Heritage cars, a name given TO them by Amtrak, not FOR Amtrak.
My undrstanding is that ALL of the old cars were eventually either converted or no longer used.
Amtrak has developed its equipment thinking along line of car types, such as a train being Amfleet, a train being all Superliner, etc. This is new with Amtrak. Under the old railraods there were plenty of differences but they were differecnes between indvidual trains,....not differences based on an entire car type.
Thus, one of the earlier questions on this forum was something like what were the cars called betwene 5/1/71 and the term Heritage--the answer is that they were not called anything in particular at all..
The word "heritage" being found in car diagrams, blue prints, etc must be the result of revised descriptions after the cars were significantly overhauled...and they were overhauled in more ways than just the HEP. e
Somebody earlier on this forum mentioned the neat effect of the steam, like in the snow., as for photos.....I agree completely...the steam made noises, etc which did add to the enjoyment of being around a train. When they were backing into a station they used to make a hissing noise like a big cobra. I loved it. I am not a mechanical person---I could not handle Miami Joe's job for fifteen minutes---so I cannot explain exactly all the neat things which happened. But I did like it when they backed in. Maybe some else can tel lus what that was all about.
Come Amtrak. All equipment was inherited from the railroads at first.
At some point probablywithin the first one or two years, Amtrak began refurbishing,reconditiong its old cars and converting them to HELP. Just as Steve4031 describes. This would jive with what Miami Joe said about heritage being around about 30 years.
Those cars were called Heritage cars, a name given TO them by Amtrak, not FOR Amtrak.
My undrstanding is that ALL of the old cars were eventually either converted or no longer used.
Amtrak has developed its equipment thinking along line of car types, such as a train being Amfleet, a train being all Superliner, etc. This is new with Amtrak. Under the old railraods there were plenty of differences but they were differecnes between indvidual trains,....not differences based on an entire car type.
Thus, one of the earlier questions on this forum was something like what were the cars called betwene 5/1/71 and the term Heritage--the answer is that they were not called anything in particular at all..
The word "heritage" being found in car diagrams, blue prints, etc must be the result of revised descriptions after the cars were significantly overhauled...and they were overhauled in more ways than just the HEP. e
Somebody earlier on this forum mentioned the neat effect of the steam, like in the snow., as for photos.....I agree completely...the steam made noises, etc which did add to the enjoyment of being around a train. When they were backing into a station they used to make a hissing noise like a big cobra. I loved it. I am not a mechanical person---I could not handle Miami Joe's job for fifteen minutes---so I cannot explain exactly all the neat things which happened. But I did like it when they backed in. Maybe some else can tel lus what that was all about.
Here in Miami, we have the Gold Coast RR museum. This is also the home of the "Ferdinand Magellan", the Presidental car. They have been around for decades, I remember when they were in Ft. Lauderdale.
About 15 years ago, I was working for MetroRail and The Gold Coast had a haunted house during October. For $5, you could take a ride on the "haunted train" and it was pretty neat!!!h34r: I remember "Freddy" and the "the chain saw guy" running down the aisle. Boy, was the saw loud!!!! Outside on the sidings, they had scary scenes going on and it was a fun 25 minutes.
It was real cold that night and I had my girlfriend with me and we went to look at the engine. I struck up a conversation with the engineer and found out that he worked on the PeopleMover downtown. After BS'ing for awhile, he asked if we would like to go for a ride!!
The loco had been converted from coal to bunker oil, but you could still see the fire in the boiler. We sat on a wood bench and watched him perform his "magic", cause it was real intensive watching the gauges, twisting valves and pulling levers. It doesn't leave much time to watch the rail ahead. It was real cold that night, but hotter than hell riding in the cab.
I was so enthralled, I signed up that night as a volunteer and did alot of repairs and restorations until "92 when hurricane Andrew hit. The administrator's position changed around because of "in-house squabbling" and I left. The facility and cars were damaged, and FEMA provided money to rebuild, but the loco's boiler has rusted away. To rebuild the boiler is around $100,000 and the money is not there.
It was hard to find parts for the loco. We would call around the country looking for parts and had to rebuild existing parts or machine new parts. Extremely labor intensive!!!.
All they do now is allow you to look at the equipment and sell RR trinkets in the giftshop.
It was something I'll never forget!!! :wub:
PS. I did eventually learn how to maintain the engine and became an engineer!!!
B)
About 15 years ago, I was working for MetroRail and The Gold Coast had a haunted house during October. For $5, you could take a ride on the "haunted train" and it was pretty neat!!!
h34r: I remember "Freddy" and the "the chain saw guy" running down the aisle. Boy, was the saw loud!!!! Outside on the sidings, they had scary scenes going on and it was a fun 25 minutes.It was real cold that night and I had my girlfriend with me and we went to look at the engine. I struck up a conversation with the engineer and found out that he worked on the PeopleMover downtown. After BS'ing for awhile, he asked if we would like to go for a ride!!
The loco had been converted from coal to bunker oil, but you could still see the fire in the boiler. We sat on a wood bench and watched him perform his "magic", cause it was real intensive watching the gauges, twisting valves and pulling levers. It doesn't leave much time to watch the rail ahead. It was real cold that night, but hotter than hell riding in the cab.
I was so enthralled, I signed up that night as a volunteer and did alot of repairs and restorations until "92 when hurricane Andrew hit. The administrator's position changed around because of "in-house squabbling" and I left. The facility and cars were damaged, and FEMA provided money to rebuild, but the loco's boiler has rusted away. To rebuild the boiler is around $100,000 and the money is not there.
It was hard to find parts for the loco. We would call around the country looking for parts and had to rebuild existing parts or machine new parts. Extremely labor intensive!!!.
All they do now is allow you to look at the equipment and sell RR trinkets in the giftshop.
It was something I'll never forget!!! :wub:
PS. I did eventually learn how to maintain the engine and became an engineer!!!
B)
I just got done powering up #98 and remembered another experience I had.
The owner of the Florida Fun Train also owns the Durango Narrow Gauge in Colorado. It too, is a tourist attraction with 2 engines and a number of passenger cars. He has old open air cars and cars with A/C for party trains.
After the FFT folded, I took advantage of an invite to see his other trainsets. The trip up the mountain and back is about 3 hrs and the most beautiful scenery in the country. Al Harper owns the whole operation including the track. His maintenance people are non-union and very well organized. They too, rebuild or machine parts as needed and that seems to be 24/7 most of the time.
What really amazed me was that the majority of the maintenance people are "old-timers" in their late 50's to "young" 70's!! :lol: Most of them just have a love for trains, retired years ago but couldn't stay away. The neat thing was alot of their sons were working there, a passing on of the tradition. While steam engine work is not a high demand occupation, what work there is pays extremely well. People are paying big money for experienced labor, since these craftsmen are a dying breed. While the sons tended to work 2 jobs as they learned the craft, they were telling me how some of them travel around the country doing maintenance on steam engines. The comeraderie and family atmosphere was such that alot of the guys working 2 jobs worked for the same 2 companies, the Durango and a boiler company that maintains the boilers in the resorts in the area.
I spent 3 days there, working in the shop and driving the train. A buddy from the FFT, who is an Amtrak engineer and was an engineer on the FFT, joined us on my second day. It was real hard to leave and come back to Miami, But I do have an "open" invitation to visit and work there if I ever decide to leave Miami.
Jerry and I reminisce alot about our experiences with the FFT and the Durango and we owe our gratitude to Al for allowing us the pleasure of experiencing 2 trains that have made for some great times and memories!!!
"Hail to the FFT and long live the Durango!" :wub:
B)
The owner of the Florida Fun Train also owns the Durango Narrow Gauge in Colorado. It too, is a tourist attraction with 2 engines and a number of passenger cars. He has old open air cars and cars with A/C for party trains.
After the FFT folded, I took advantage of an invite to see his other trainsets. The trip up the mountain and back is about 3 hrs and the most beautiful scenery in the country. Al Harper owns the whole operation including the track. His maintenance people are non-union and very well organized. They too, rebuild or machine parts as needed and that seems to be 24/7 most of the time.
What really amazed me was that the majority of the maintenance people are "old-timers" in their late 50's to "young" 70's!! :lol: Most of them just have a love for trains, retired years ago but couldn't stay away. The neat thing was alot of their sons were working there, a passing on of the tradition. While steam engine work is not a high demand occupation, what work there is pays extremely well. People are paying big money for experienced labor, since these craftsmen are a dying breed. While the sons tended to work 2 jobs as they learned the craft, they were telling me how some of them travel around the country doing maintenance on steam engines. The comeraderie and family atmosphere was such that alot of the guys working 2 jobs worked for the same 2 companies, the Durango and a boiler company that maintains the boilers in the resorts in the area.
I spent 3 days there, working in the shop and driving the train. A buddy from the FFT, who is an Amtrak engineer and was an engineer on the FFT, joined us on my second day. It was real hard to leave and come back to Miami, But I do have an "open" invitation to visit and work there if I ever decide to leave Miami.
Jerry and I reminisce alot about our experiences with the FFT and the Durango and we owe our gratitude to Al for allowing us the pleasure of experiencing 2 trains that have made for some great times and memories!!!
"Hail to the FFT and long live the Durango!" :wub:
B)
The first heritage/HEP train I saw was the northbound Crescent into Atlanta. I have no idea when. It was beautiful....I am not sure what could cause the exterior to be more shiny than usual but something did.......do remember the cars were reconditioned in several ways, not just HEP. It reminded me of something I saw on a forum a few days ago about how beautiful a Silver train looked after going through new washers in Miami...like a brand new train. So did the HEP/heritage trains.
Amfleet
Engineer
I belive some exterior modifications were made, like replacing/polishing the stainless steel exteriors. Also if you noticed how some windows apeared smaller than others, that is because the smaller windows are emergancy exits where you just pull down of that red handle. Before the only way to get out of a train was to brake the glass or use the vestibule doors.
Those smaller emergancy windows are evidnet on this diner, the two windows at each end of the four larger non emergancy windows.
Those smaller emergancy windows are evidnet on this diner, the two windows at each end of the four larger non emergancy windows.
Thanks for clearing that up, Amfleet. By the way I do not want to take out an entire forum to say this, but I will be on vacation from this evening through Friday. Will rejoin the forum over the weekend, when I sneak into the office to catch up from being off. I will not be on the train at any time, unfortuantely, which is why I did not make a separate forum to say that..
Back to the point of this forum though...I remember being on The Crescent after it had been "heritaged-HEP'd" and saw the Silver Star in Philly---it was one of the last trains to receive the "treatment" and it really did look shabby...I could not believe the contrast. I'm sure it received the treatment very shortly after that.
Back to the point of this forum though...I remember being on The Crescent after it had been "heritaged-HEP'd" and saw the Silver Star in Philly---it was one of the last trains to receive the "treatment" and it really did look shabby...I could not believe the contrast. I'm sure it received the treatment very shortly after that.
Amfleet
Engineer
The picture I posted is from about 6 years ago and even those Diners now look pretty shabby both inside and out. Thanks to Temoinsa rebuild though, the girls are looking yonger again. B)
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