Heat Speed Restrictions

Discussion in 'Amtrak Rail Discussion' started by John Bobinyec, Jun 19, 2017.

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  1. May 29, 2019 #51

    west point

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    west point

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    -T understand CSX in full you would need to compare =========
    1. Cross tie length
    2. ballast shoulder length beyond end of tie
    3. general tie conditions
    4. number of spikes in tie plates
    5. Tie plate size
    6. number of anchors per tie ( average)
    7. condition of ballast
    8. Tie spacing
    9. Amount of ballast top exposed on tie ( have seen 0 - 4 inches )
    10. Ballast compaction

    Not so easy is it ?
     
  2. May 30, 2019 #52

    Acela150

    Acela150

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    It's called heat patrol..... NS does it as well as many Class I's. CSX doesn't do it as far as I know and they're the only railroad that'll issue heat restrictions. Amtrak issues them on the NEC to prevent the overhead from ripping down when it's hot as it'll sag more.
     
  3. May 30, 2019 #53

    chakk

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    I have witnessed heat restrictions on the UP while riding #5 in western Colorado and eastern Utah in summer, and cold restrictions on the UP while riding #6 in Nevada in winter.
     
  4. May 30, 2019 #54

    Acela150

    Acela150

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    Before I really dive into a reply. I’ll ask a quick question. How long ago was that?
     
  5. May 30, 2019 #55

    jloewen

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    jloewen

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    "Wood ties are also susceptible to changes in the humidity." Not very. Not in length. Wood is perhaps the most stable material in length, during changes in temperature and humidity. Isn't length the important thing?
     
  6. May 30, 2019 #56

    jloewen

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    jloewen

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    You make cogent points, but maybe a different solution than continuous welded rail is needed, then, for places like VT, that can experience -20 (F) and 95 (F).
     
  7. May 30, 2019 #57

    John Bobinyec

    John Bobinyec

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    Does CSX issue heat speed restrictions for all trains or only passenger trains (because they run above a certain speed)?

    jb
     
  8. May 30, 2019 #58

    frequentflyer

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    Whats sad, these restrictions makes no sense to the customer. Would be nice if Amtrak was proactive and had a section on their website on what causes delays. Communication is the key to understanding.
     
  9. May 30, 2019 #59

    Acela150

    Acela150

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    All train are effected.

    You're right, they don't make sense to the customer. As far as adding a link on their webpage to explain possible causes of delay goes, I'm all for that.
     
  10. May 30, 2019 #60

    west point

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    west point

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    CSX just puts on a blanket heat order. If it says say 35 MPH passenger. IM. and all other trains limited to that speed. It may be different for Amtrak NEC as heat speeds more likely to apply to electric motor speeds. Marc trains that are diesel would not be affected by that restriction but there may be other restrictions?

    Note that braking or accelerating of trains might cause track to kink at higher speeds underneath a train at certain speeds. Track curves, slope, cross level differences, train passing another, bad ties all enter into the equation.
     
  11. May 31, 2019 #61

    lordsigma

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    Amtrak should adjust the schedule for the northbound trains this time of year. The northbound Meteor has been hit with nearly daily delays due to heat. Auto Train is then affected as it is stuck behind the delayed Meteor (the heat slow orders are usually running from 3-7 so the Meteor is usually in the Deland-Palatka area when it starts so is always ahead of the AT.) Trains over the last couple weeks have been averaging 1-2 hours late into NYC due to the heat orders combined with boarding delays at the stations (a lot more people getting on the northbound trains as opposed to the southbound this time of year.) Probably a little bit of the usual FTI in there too, but I think CSX in general has been better lately as far as FTI.
     
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  12. May 31, 2019 #62

    Acela150

    Acela150

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    It’s not practical to adjust schedules for heat restrictions for say 3 months. For several reasons. One is that heat restrictions may not be in place everyday. Another is that it each trains slot would have to be adjusted. The list goes on.
     
  13. May 31, 2019 #63

    Thirdrail7

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    Actually, Amtrak issues heat restrictions for the tracks as well as the catenary. Amtrak has also suffered from heat kinks....recently. They just have a bit more railroad to maneuver around.

    I think a derailing train (which has happened due to heat kinks and led the heat orders) makes even less sense to the customer.

    The entirety of the schedules (which some say is larded with fat) is made with these sort of eventualities in mind. A perfect example is the bloated schedule of 90, one of the trains they anticipate running through the restrictions. Without the restrictions, the train often makes up time if it is late. With them, they don't make up time. The "fat' that was unnecessary in the spring is useful in the summer.

    What you're leaving out is the impact of other trains now being out of slot and interfering with meets. After all, at this point most trains are operating at the same speed. On the RF&P subdivision, a freight train will move at the same speed as a passenger train, so there isn't priority.
     
  14. May 31, 2019 #64

    chakk

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    oh, bout 10 years ago for the heat restrictions and 15 years ago for the cold restrictions
     
  15. May 31, 2019 #65

    frequentflyer

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    That may be true, but if you want that customer to come back you should explain to him or her why the countryside is gliding by at 20 mph. Especially when the consumer who may live by the tracks are accustomed to seeing long freight trains blast through their towns in the heat of July.
     
  16. May 31, 2019 #66

    chakk

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    chakk

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    Both the heat and cold speed restrictions I've experienced on the CZ were announced over the PA by the conductor. Took effect when outside temperature was greater than 95 degrees F or less than 10 degrees F -- speed reduced to a maximum of 50 mph. In territory where the regular limit was 79 mph, this produced a not-insignificant tardiness.
     
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  17. May 31, 2019 #67

    lordsigma

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    I don’t mean change when it runs or even the timetable with CSX - I guess I just mean add some additional padding to the customer timetable in the summer for the northbound meteor and AT when you know heat and longer stops at the stations are going to make it harder to keep the timetable.
     
  18. May 31, 2019 #68

    Thirdrail7

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    I think you misunderstood the equation. It is not a speed reduction to 20mph. It is a maximum reduction of 20mph of the maximum authorized speed but not lower than 40mph.

    In other words, the MAS is 79 mph for passenger and 70 mph for freight on a section of track. During the heat restriction, speed is 59mph through this section for PS and 60mph for frt. The passenger speed for another section of track is 50mph for PS and 30 for frt. The heat order would dictate the PS operate at 40mph through this section while the frt wouldn't have a restriction.

    Most of this is calculated in the schedule which is usually timed from an average...which leads me to below.

    Again, it already exists. This eventualities are already in the schedule. They are often referred to as fat and padding. Why do you think 80 has an astounding 45minutes of time in WAS? Why do you think 90 has 37 minutes between ALX-WAS and sits in WAS for almost 45minutes? The auto train has two chunks of lard in it. Train 68 and 64, which travel over CP (known for their heat restrictions) have a blob as they approach SDY and ALB.

    It is already there.
     
  19. May 31, 2019 #69

    lordsigma

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    I guess there’s no real way to ever really make it fool proof.
     

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