F-40PHR

[trainfan]

When the SDP-40Fs were rebuilt to the F-40PHR s ,what parts were used, Engines? electrical? etc?

Trainfan

 

[Shotgun7]

Amtrak's SDP40Fs weren't really "rebuilt" per se into F40PHRs. When Amtrak decided to phase out their fairly new locomotive fleet, they sent most of them back to EMD as they took in their newly ordered F40PHRs. According to OTOL, only electrical components were transferred between the locomotives. Remember, many components in these two locomotives (especially engine and trucks) are completely different. The SDP40Fs were based off of SD40-2s, while all the F40s were based off of GP40-2s and didn't utilize steam generators. Only 18 units of Amtrak's initial new locomotive order were ever put to long lasting use, as they were traded to Santa Fe in exchange for switchers.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I seem to recall them using the same primer mover. Ironicly, there was nothing inherently wrong with the SDP-40Fs. The main problem was the location of the steam generator and water tank. SantaFe used them on the Super-C trains at near passenger speeds and never had a problem with them, once the steam heat equipment was removed.

On the whole they were superior to the F40s because of their 3-axle trucks. Because of the instability caused by the water sloshing in the SDPs, they got the reputation as derailment prone oafs with poorly designed trucks. It simply isn't so.

 

[Shotgun7]

Seems like Amtrak never really recognized what was really wrong, since they haven't bought a 6-axle unit yet... 40 years later! It surprises me that they would even go to the extent to make sure their special ordered Dash-9s were only 4-axle. Come to think of it, I don't think there's a single passenger train in all of North America regularly operating with 6-axle units. Anybody have any explanation there?

 

[amtrakwolverine]

could be cost. maybe 6 axles cost more

 

[had8ley]

Somewhere in the fog bank I seem to remember a speed restriction to Amtrak six axle locos of 45 mph, in curves (blamed on derailment problems) on most host RR's. It wasn't long after that they started disappearing. I think Amtrak lost the battle to lift the restriction as they were only running on another man's track.

 

[battalion51]

Well the E-60's and P30CH's both had decent (albeit not exactly storied) careers, and both ran with six axles. The F40C's that were a workhorse for Metra have faded in recent years, although two are held for emergency services. Alaska Railroad runs SD70M's on its passenger trains all the time.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

if they really still believe 6 axles are bad then why did they order those pooch P30CH LOCOS. they have 6 axels and never derailed. they were just lemons.

 

[had8ley]

if they really still believe 6 axles are bad then why did they order those pooch P30CH LOCOS. they have 6 axels and never derailed. they were just lemons.

I don't have the answer to your question but I knew the diesel mechanic that Amtrak put on every Sunset that had these engines in the consist. He would tell me horror stories of not even making it to East Bridge tower in New Orleans (about 5 miles from the station) and both engines would break down. His worst disaster was when they had to send power from NOL to drag the Sunset back to the station and re-power it completely.

 

[George Harris]

The derailments on curves seemed to happen only on certain railroads. ICG was one, but their track quaility was going donw the tube at that time, anyway. I believe that the curve limit on these things was 40 mph. I think these things had a rigid truck frame. The concept of the "steerable truck" seems to be in part an attempt to get past the problems these things had.

to the best of my memory, the ATSF never seemed to have probems with these things, even at 90 mph, but then they had good track.

 

[battalion51]

I don't think there's any doubt that the technology of today's six axle motor is vastly different than the 1970s technology the six axle passenger motors of the past were built on. However, I don't think GE, EMD, or MPI want to take the multi-million dollar gamble on building these types of passenger motors. The performance of four axle engines in a passenger application is excellent today. Why fix what ain't broke?

 

[George Harris]

Why fix what ain't broke?

Precisely. The need fior speed says you want high horsepower, not high weight to lug a heavy train. As long as you have enough weight to get the train moving without slipping, the rest of the issue is power. OK, I have simplified it. Adhesion does decrease with speed, but that is not really an issue with the normal engine weight and passenger train speeds.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

if they really still believe 6 axles are bad then why did they order those pooch P30CH LOCOS. they have 6 axels and never derailed. they were just lemons.

I don't have the answer to your question but I knew the diesel mechanic that Amtrak put on every Sunset that had these engines in the consist. He would tell me horror stories of not even making it to East Bridge tower in New Orleans (about 5 miles from the station) and both engines would break down. His worst disaster was when they had to send power from NOL to drag the Sunset back to the station and re-power it completely.

yeah amtrak got a raw deal on those. but they never jumped the tracks every time you turned around. they just broke down everyday. kinda like the p-42s