Empire Service rolling stock?

Discussion in 'Amtrak Rail Discussion' started by v v, Jun 18, 2019.

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  1. Jun 18, 2019 #1

    v v

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    Help please

    Is the rolling stock of the Empire Service similar to the Lake Shore Limited? Or is it closer to a commuter train?

    Thanks
     
  2. Jun 18, 2019 #2

    JustOnce

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    The LSL has Amfleet II long distance coaches. These are distinguished by having end doors at only one end, fewer seats (more leg room), and larger windows. Empire Service uses Amfleet I equipment which have doors at both ends, smaller windows, and more seats. Still, they're a bit roomier than a commuter coach.

    I think the count is:
    Amfleet II: 59 seats
    Amfleet I: up to 84 seats (2x2)
    NJT Comet V: 117 seats (trailer coach without restroom, 2x3 seating configuration)
     
  3. Jun 18, 2019 #3

    NSC1109

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    as far as I am aware, the Empire Service uses Amfleet I cars, so it would look like this:

    https://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=633942
     
  4. Jun 18, 2019 #4

    Acela150

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    Amfleet I cars top out with 72 seats. They haven’t had 84 seats in a years.
     
  5. Jun 18, 2019 #5

    JustOnce

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    I was relying on wikipedia which did mention refurbished cars had 72 seats. Unfortunately, it didn't indicate that all cars were refurbished.
     
  6. Jun 18, 2019 #6

    PVD

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    They got the ADA bathroom and the wheelchair space quite a while ago, but recently got an interior refresh of new seat covers and cushions, new carpet, and some other trim fix ups. Not bad at all. I did a NYP to SYR roundtrip a few weeks back. LSL will switch to P42s at Albany, the ES trains usually keep the single P32.
     
  7. Jun 18, 2019 #7

    v v

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    Thanks everyone, that's really helpful. Would it be correct to say it was midway between a commuter train and a log distance one?

    If you had a choice between the LSL and the ES, which would you take, and why? That is between New York Penn and Syracuse BTW
     
  8. Jun 18, 2019 #8

    PVD

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    LSL gives up too much time in Albany. Unless you are a person with long legs or considerable size, the refurbed AM-1 seats on ES are adequate for the 5 hour trip. The ES trains offer BC to or from NYP, the LSL (normally) runs its BC from Boston, so it would only be available after Albany if you originate in NYP. In both cases it is usually the split (2+1 seating) bc/cafe car so bc seating is limited but most folks really like the big chairs (except for sleeping)
     
  9. Jun 18, 2019 #9

    Seaboard92

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    The Maple Leaf runs with a few Amfleet IIs and so does the Adirondack I believe. Depending if that works on your schedule.
     
  10. Jun 18, 2019 #10

    PVD

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    The Adirondack won't get him to Syracuse, The early morning departure of the ML is nice, I'm not sure which destinations are assigned the AM2 vs the AM1.
     
  11. Jun 18, 2019 #11

    bratkinson

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    As indicated above, the Lakeshore Ltd spends a LOT of time at Albany switching in/out the Boston section of the train. The current timetable shows 45 minutes westbound and an astounding 1 hour 14 minutes eastbound, probably to 'make up' some lost time, and may thus be shorter dwell time than scheduled. Empire Service trains are scheduled for a 23 minute stop at Albany due to large numbers of passengers deboarding/boarding there and possibly make up a couple of minutes lost time as well.

    Last I checked, the last car of all Empire service trains is a combined cafe/business class car that has 6 booths for cafe service in front of the cafe counter and 18 business class seats in 2-1 arrangement in the rear half of the car. I strongly recommend purchasing more expensive business class seats as they are slightly wider than coach seats, have a 6" wide armrest between the '2' side seats, and have an extra 8" of legroom. Also, in business class, most non-alcoholic beverages at the cafe counter are free.
     
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  12. Jun 18, 2019 #12

    PVD

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    All of the ES trains use the split cars, unless bad ordered. I took BC up, and coach back in January, and a few weeks ago, out of NYP , BC is quieter and much more civil, coming back early on Sunday out of Syracuse, the train wasn't that crowded but they sent passengers to specific cars by destination, keeping the passengers going past Albany at one end, keeping the first coach closed until Albany, and pretty much filling it quickly there. Depending on size and leg length, the refreshed AM1 may be fine, if you are going to do BC reserve early, it is a small section and tends to sell out on many trips.
     
  13. Jun 19, 2019 #13

    Acela150

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    The cars that weren't overhauled for 72 seats are all but gone.
     
  14. Jun 19, 2019 #14

    bratkinson

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    I don't remember the number of rows in 'full' Amfleet I business class cars, but I think it's about 72 seats (18 rows). And those WERE refurbished, seemingly before any of the 84/88 seat coaches were refurbed.
     
  15. Jun 19, 2019 #15

    v v

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    If we make this trip we'll arrive at JFK mid morning, so would possibly book the 283 Empire Service departing at 1:20pm. Does anyone have any idea how long it may take to arrive from an international flight to getting to Penn during a weekday morning? Of course by public transport excluding taxis.

    Again, if we make this trip it will be a one week US visit on a tight budget so BC is probably out for this time. Have noticed in just the last few days the price of coach has risen by about $20, have to make a decision soon.

    Thanks for your help
     
  16. Jun 19, 2019 #16

    PVD

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    Airtrain to Jamaica, LIRR to NYP is the best way. Subway from Jamaica is a few dollars cheaper, but luggage handling is easier with LIRR. Unless you get jammed in Customs you should be fine. Left side for best view of river going up....I believe the AM-! full BC cars are now at 62 seats, but it is highly unlikely you will encounter one on that route.
     
  17. Jun 19, 2019 #17

    Brian Battuello

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    Also, when you reach New York Penn, go into the Amtrak coach passenger lounge and request redcap service to your train. That will get you on five minutes before anyone else and you get the best seat choice. Be sure and give them a nice tip!
     
  18. Jun 19, 2019 #18

    Brian Battuello

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    Another empire service tip Amtrak used to publish a lake shore limited route guide that had a ton of great information about the run up the Hudson. It is no longer available in print but you can download one from the web. Be sure and watch for Bannermans island!
     
  19. Jun 19, 2019 #19

    PVD

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    You can go to "NYByRail.com" for quite a bit of good resources, including the link for a NY discount of 15%...The Hudson River to the Erie Canal transformed the United States in a number of ways and you will see quite a bit of it....
     
  20. Jun 19, 2019 #20

    v v

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    Great.

    We have the option of buying tickets for a later flight then to catch the LSL, but it would depend on how long is usual from landing to reaching Penn assuming nothing untoward happens.

    Guess that it's try to sit train left riding up river, and right back to NYC? Will print out the guide, thanks for that idea.

    We have been invited to an amateur rocket club launch and picnic, also the NY State Fair is on at the same time and we're suckers for US state fairs. Plus a few of our friends are meeting at this place, just got to find the time and money.

    The place we are going to is Baldwinsville NY, I believe the canal passes through, will make a point of using the link PVD, thank you.
     
  21. Jun 19, 2019 #21

    River in Sight

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    Not exactly what you're looking for, but last week I arrived JFK Terminal 7 at 2PM and was at Penn Station at 4PM - around 45 minutes for customs and then the most aggravating part of the trip was I burned around 25 minutes waiting on line to buy a MetroCard to exit the AirTrain. There were hordes of people at that time trying to figure out how to use the vending machines, and the little shop that normally sells them was closed. Arriving earlier in the day is probably easier since 2PM is peak time for European flights to arrive. By the way, you can buy 10-trip tickets for $25 (which equals the cost of 5 one-ways - so half price) and each card can be used for up to 4 people - so if you have multiple people with you, the 10-trip can be the cheaper way to go.
     
  22. Jun 19, 2019 #22

    PVD

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    I hate to admit knowing Baldwinsville.... I was a volunteer coach some years back at a USA Hockey Development Program event at the Lysander Rink..... There is a seasonal train stop at the fairgrounds itself, only used when the State Fair is on, if that makes a difference....Many of my upstate friends go every year and seem to like it....
     
  23. Jun 20, 2019 #23

    Winecliff Station

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    Just so I understand the above posts correctly, there is no longer direct LSL service coming from NYP that does not require a change in Albany? I am planning a trip to Syracuse from Rhinecliff and was assuming the LSL would be a direct route.
     
  24. Jun 20, 2019 #24

    Just-Thinking-51

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    You physically don’t change trains. The engine on the LSL does change trains. So when in Albany you can stay on the train with your gear, or hop off and go into the station.

    The seat you arrive at in Albany, will be the seat your in, when you leave Albany.
     
  25. Jun 20, 2019 #25

    Winecliff Station

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    Ah... thank you for that clarification :)
     

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