Elimination of diners on western Amtrak long distance trains?

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What doesn’t make sense here is the trains that would be a logical choice for this new menu would be The Cardinal and the City of New Orleans. In the case of the CONO the new menu would be a step up from what is currently served departing Chicago.
Apparently the key reason for choosing the CL and the LSL was that box meals prepared off the train makes it possible to save money by eliminating several on-board staff. (It's pretty likely the workers who prepare those box meals are paid a lot less in wages and benefits.) The CONO is already operating without much diner staffing.
 
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Agree. The CONO arguably has the worst food in the Amtrak system. I had a horrible dinner two months ago similar to Dinty Moore beef stew. The Cardinal at least had French Toast when I rode in March. Actually,the Cardinal and the CONO would be better trains for the boxed cold food than the CL and the LSL
I definitely agree about the CONO, but not necessarily about the Cardinal. The Cardinal is a 28 hour ride - It's the third longest train ride on the East Coast. Since it's only three days a week, a switch to "Contemporary dining" wouldn't save nearly as much money as it does on the Capitol and LSL, and passengers would have to endure it for that much longer at a time. Also remember that with the Cardinal's current dining setup, they have one person in the diner-lite doing the food prep, and the SCAs bring the food to passengers. Therefore, it seems like a switch to cold meals wouldn't actually reduce the number of onboard staff serving meals.
 
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This was dinner departing Chicago on 59 last night. A “warm” muffuletta sandwich. It was actually pretty tasty. The other two choices were a chipotle chicken sandwich or a Caesar salad. Breakfast this morning I had the breakfast bowl with a croissant and it was alright.

Word from the crew here is status quo on this train. No word of impending changes.
 
I just looked up the SWC from KC to Fullerton, CA for 2019 and the sleeper fare was $500!!! If I'm just going to be eating cold sandwiches, I expect that price to cut in half!!
 
2 steak dinners and some scrambled eggs are worth $250 to you?

The "fresh" meal options look better than the current amtrak lunch options. Unless you get the steak or salmon (if it's on the menu) I think the fresh meals are about equal to the current dinner options. That leaves breakfast which everyone agrees is lackluster.

The "fresh" idea needs work, but it's really not that drastic of a downgrade. The table service was so wildly inconsistent that it's really hard to say that was a "plus" of the traditional diner on Amtrak.
 
Even this wont put me off from riding LD trains.
How about a permanent bus bridge in the middle of your trip like on the newly proposed Southwest Chief? If the current round of cuts wipes out the chef position what if they get rid of the SCA position next? Just curious what it would take for you to reconsider, of if they could can count on your business no matter what they do or how they do it.
For me personally... First it depends on the purpose of my trip. I've chosen the bus bridge option vs. the all day Starlight when traveling from Sacramento to LA. For me.. that was the most convenient way to get where I was going (quicker than the starlight, probably around the same time as air travel when you count in getting to / from airports etc. and obviously cheaper than flying). But that's a 2 hour bus ride I think? And those busses are quite nice I thought.

If I needed to get from Chicago to LA, I don't think I would ever choose the Chief with a bus bridge, and definitely not if the bus bridge was over night (which in this case it would have to be?).

There's also different "breaking points" for different situations. No diner wouldn't stop me from using the Silver Star if it made the most sense schedule wise for me to get somewhere. But no Parlour Car will keep me from going out of my way to ride the Starlight. Would I still ride the starlight? of course. But I used to go out of my way to ride it, including adding travel days so I could connect to the Empire Builder to get to chicago.

In the past I've purchased a Roomette on the Empire Builder from Chicago to Minneapolis. For $120 or so I get the lounge in chicago, a private room, and a $20-$30 dinner in the diner that I would otherwise pay for. If you take the dinner and replace it with a salad meal I can grab at Union Station for $10 now that changes that dynamic a bit... I'm not sure what I would pick but the diner was a factor in my justification for that price.
That salad dinner in the station would probably ccost you more than $10. Sure, the salad might be 10, but the dinner box also contains a side dish and a dessert, and beverages are also included. Buy all of that in the station, and I wouldnt be surprised at spending 20 bucks. Or maybe even more. And you would have no way to keep it cold until meal time.
 
The "fresh" meal options look better than the current amtrak lunch options. Unless you get the steak or salmon (if it's on the menu) I think the fresh meals are about equal to the current dinner options. That
I haven't had the cold Vegan Wrap with a, but I can tell you that that's not going to be as good as a hot black bean and corn veggie burger with a onions, tomato, and a side pickle. Same probably applies when you compare those same two items at dinner.
 
2 steak dinners and some scrambled eggs are worth $250 to you?

The "fresh" meal options look better than the current amtrak lunch options. Unless you get the steak or salmon (if it's on the menu) I think the fresh meals are about equal to the current dinner options. That leaves breakfast which everyone agrees is lackluster.

The "fresh" idea needs work, but it's really not that drastic of a downgrade. The table service was so wildly inconsistent that it's really hard to say that was a "plus" of the traditional diner on Amtrak.
As has been mentioned before. the upcharge also includes lie-flat beds and privacy from the riffraff, including a door lock.

For many people, that's more important than gourmet dining. And I can say that on my recent flight to Beijing, the BC upcharge was a lot more than $250 oer seat, and all you get ia a little cubicle. This is for a 14 hour flight.
 
The "fresh" meal options look better than the current amtrak lunch options. Unless you get the steak or salmon (if it's on the menu) I think the fresh meals are about equal to the current dinner options. That
I haven't had the cold Vegan Wrap with a, but I can tell you that that's not going to be as good as a hot black bean and corn veggie burger with a onions, tomato, and a side pickle. Same probably applies when you compare those same two items at dinner.
I'd have to have both to say for sure, but I don't think I agree with you. I like the veggie burger in the diner just fine, but it's a reheated from frozen vegetable patty served with potato chips. The veggie wrap lists several ingredients that sound like better quality than a frozen veggie Patty to me. You still get a bag of chips. And you get a quinoia salad (all the rage these days :p ) and fresh fruit.

Let's try to use some logic here... Do you think a veggie burger at Denny's is more upscale than a chicken salad at Panera? I know which one I eat regularly and which one I never order. But the veggie burger is served warm with a side of pickle spear so in your logic it must be better!

For dinner- Its a downgrade depending on what you order and what is available. The "fresh" boxes look better to me than the veggie pasta dishes, Tilapia Entree, and some versions of chicken entrees I've tried. The steak, salmon, and previous entrees such as lamb shank, Mahi Mahi, crab cakes, etc. Are clearly better than fresh boxes in my opinion.
 
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The "fresh" meal options look better than the current amtrak lunch options. Unless you get the steak or salmon (if it's on the menu) I think the fresh meals are about equal to the current dinner options. That
I haven't had the cold Vegan Wrap with a, but I can tell you that that's not going to be as good as a hot black bean and corn veggie burger with a onions, tomato, and a side pickle. Same probably applies when you compare those same two items at dinner.
100% fully agree. Rarely, if ever, is a cold meal better than a HOT meal!
 
The "fresh" meal options look better than the current amtrak lunch options. Unless you get the steak or salmon (if it's on the menu) I think the fresh meals are about equal to the current dinner options. That
I haven't had the cold Vegan Wrap with a, but I can tell you that that's not going to be as good as a hot black bean and corn veggie burger with a onions, tomato, and a side pickle. Same probably applies when you compare those same two items at dinner.
100% fully agree. Rarely, if ever, is a cold meal better than a HOT meal!
A cold meal can be better than a hot meal, in general, however it's certainly harder to make a good cold meal than a good hot meal. In this particular case, I can't imagine a cold wrap being better than a hot black bean veggie burger. If it were a different cold option, it could be possible. The way the menu is now, I'm not optimistic.
 
The "fresh" meal options look better than the current amtrak lunch options. Unless you get the steak or salmon (if it's on the menu) I think the fresh meals are about equal to the current dinner options. That
I haven't had the cold Vegan Wrap with a, but I can tell you that that's not going to be as good as a hot black bean and corn veggie burger with a onions, tomato, and a side pickle. Same probably applies when you compare those same two items at dinner.
100% fully agree. Rarely, if ever, is a cold meal better than a HOT meal!
A cold meal can be better than a hot meal, in general, however it's certainly harder to make a good cold meal than a good hot meal. In this particular case, I can't imagine a cold wrap being better than a hot black bean veggie burger. If it were a different cold option, it could be possible. The way the menu is now, I'm not optimistic.
Do you agree that Amtrak Diner food is on par with a Denny's / Ihop in quality? (that's my closest comparison... let me know if you disagree. In the past I've had some amtrak menu items that would exceed that, but not since the "culinary" dishes of like 5-8 years ago).

Do you think the salads and wraps are on par with Panera Bread Salads and cold sandwiches in quality? (I haven't tried them yet so I can't say, only going off of pictures and reviews).

If the answer is yes to both.... My opinion is Panera Bread is a much higher quality product than a Denny's.

Let me continue to state... at a Panera Bread you can choose sides and desserts, you can choose salad dressings, etc. Their are some serious issues with the "fresh" approach that need to be addressed and I am not saying I'm a fan of it's current form.
 
2 steak dinners and some scrambled eggs are worth $250 to you?

The "fresh" meal options look better than the current amtrak lunch options. Unless you get the steak or salmon (if it's on the menu) I think the fresh meals are about equal to the current dinner options. That leaves breakfast which everyone agrees is lackluster.

The "fresh" idea needs work, but it's really not that drastic of a downgrade. The table service was so wildly inconsistent that it's really hard to say that was a "plus" of the traditional diner on Amtrak.
As has been mentioned before. the upcharge also includes lie-flat beds and privacy from the riffraff, including a door lock.

For many people, that's more important than gourmet dining. And I can say that on my recent flight to Beijing, the BC upcharge was a lot more than $250 oer seat, and all you get ia a little cubicle. This is for a 14 hour flight.
You left out the drinks and the meals, I think.
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Do you agree that Amtrak Diner food is on par with a Denny's / Ihop in quality? (that's my closest comparison... let me know if you disagree. In the past I've had some amtrak menu items that would exceed that, but not since the "culinary" dishes of like 5-8 years ago).
Honestly, I would say that it's usually on par with a perfectly decent diner. The food is not amazing, but I've hardly ever felt that a dish was of poor quality. IMO, it does the job well.
 
2 steak dinners and some scrambled eggs are worth $250 to you?

The "fresh" meal options look better than the current amtrak lunch options. Unless you get the steak or salmon (if it's on the menu) I think the fresh meals are about equal to the current dinner options. That leaves breakfast which everyone agrees is lackluster.

The "fresh" idea needs work, but it's really not that drastic of a downgrade. The table service was so wildly inconsistent that it's really hard to say that was a "plus" of the traditional diner on Amtrak.
As has been mentioned before. the upcharge also includes lie-flat beds and privacy from the riffraff, including a door lock.

For many people, that's more important than gourmet dining. And I can say that on my recent flight to Beijing, the BC upcharge was a lot more than $250 oer seat, and all you get ia a little cubicle. This is for a 14 hour flight.
You left out the drinks and the meals, I think.
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Not really. MARC Rider was saying that in addition to the meals, you also get a room and beds.
 
2 steak dinners and some scrambled eggs are worth $250 to you?

The "fresh" meal options look better than the current amtrak lunch options. Unless you get the steak or salmon (if it's on the menu) I think the fresh meals are about equal to the current dinner options. That leaves breakfast which everyone agrees is lackluster.

The "fresh" idea needs work, but it's really not that drastic of a downgrade. The table service was so wildly inconsistent that it's really hard to say that was a "plus" of the traditional diner on Amtrak.
As has been mentioned before. the upcharge also includes lie-flat beds and privacy from the riffraff, including a door lock.
For many people, that's more important than gourmet dining. And I can say that on my recent flight to Beijing, the BC upcharge was a lot more than $250 oer seat, and all you get ia a little cubicle. This is for a 14 hour flight.
You left out the drinks and the meals, I think.
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What, on Amtrak sleeper or United international business class?

Actually, United international Economy includes meals and drinks - maybe not as good as business class, but edible (except for that godawful "breakfast" prepared by the Beijing commisary),and enough to keep you from getting hangry on a 14 hour flight. And all the beer and wine you want. ok, the wine was plonk, but a couple of glasses was all I needed to help me sleep, and the beer was various craft beers that mt companion said were pretty good. I priced the business class upgrade at about $1500, and I didnt think that was worth it for a slightly better meal and top shelf booze. Maybe the lie flat seats, but it's only 14 hours. Maybe if i got the upgrade for 500 it woild be worth it.

on the other hand a $250 upgrade for two nights of privacy snd lie flat sleeping on the Chief sounds like a much better deal. even if the food isn't so hot.
 
You forget there are some people who don't eat the new options not because they are on strike from it but because it's not what they eat. I can't eat the new meals. Am I going to be calling for delivery again?
 
Seanoard, why can't you eat the new meals?

What were you able to eat from the prior menu?

For me, the only problem is the lack of choosing sides and desserts. I don't typically eat beef (preference), and I can't have gluten right now (necessity). So I would like to order the chicken salad but I can't eat the pasta salad or the cheesecake. But if i could order the chicken salad with the potato salad or 3 bean salad and a gluten free dessert (ice cream please!) I would be pretty content.
 
I don't think many here have been to Japan, but there's a technology there in warming up boxed meals. I think it involves some exothermic reaction with Calcium Oxide (I forget exactly). Anyway, you pull a string, the two substances come together in a separate compartment under the food, they react and form heat, and it heats up your food! I heard one of the substances was illegal here, but if that can be changed, that'd be a good option to getting a hot, scrumptious meal in a box; however high quality the cold box meals are, it's just not the same experience as a hot meal.
 
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On the top flight Indian trains, meals have always been included in the fare. There is no dining car, the food is brought to your seat, rather like aircraft catering, but the food is rather more fun on the trains.

On lesser trains, there is often the option to buy food, once again served hot at your seat.

Recently, I have noticed that there is a move to allow the inclusive meals to be rejected, and receive a lower fare charge.

Although the social side of the dining car is a big plus for Amtrak sleeper passengers, maybe reduced fares and just eliminating the diner option for "included" meals would work, PROVIDED they improved the food offerings available to purchase from the cafe car?

Trying to provide a hot, scrumptious meal in a box seems a bit of a stretch, given the lack of hot, scrumptious meals anywhere aboard Amtrak even with the diners!
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However, these things are available in the UK: https://www.hotpackmeals.co.uk/hot-pack-self-heating-meal-in-a-box-chicken-dopiaza-qty-1.html

Ed.
 
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On the top flight Indian trains, meals have always been included in the fare. There is no dining car, the food is brought to your seat, rather like aircraft catering, but the food is rather more fun on the trains.
Not always, but progressively so starting with the Howrah Rajdhani in 1969. Even now this is mostly on the Rajdhanis Shatabdis and trains of that ilk, by far a minority of trains.

Before 1969, prestige trains carried Restaurant Cars that were expensive, and mostly only the well to do (Frist Class and ACC crowd) used them. There was not enough capacity for everyone to use them anyway, so the arrangement worked fine. The rest either bought along food from home or brought food at stations. This business of buying food at stations became somewhat infeasible when the Rajdhani was introduced initially with just two stops of 3 mins each on a 16 hour journey. A third service stop at Mughal Sarai for handing the train from/to Northern Railway to//from Eastern Railway was 5 mins, but it was at Oh dark thirty and was not a commercial stop. Anyway, that was the genesis of food included in fare and served to everyone at their seat/room on the train, since not much else was really feasible short of requiring everyone to bring along their own food for the entire journey, which was deemed infeasible.

On lesser trains, there is often the option to buy food, once again served hot at your seat.
This has always been the standard modus operandi on Indian Mail/Express trains before the advent of Rajdhani/Shatabdi class trains.

Traditionally though Indians tended to bring their own food for journeys that lasted less than a day, which then were a vast majority of journeys, and still is. We always did so in my childhood days on trains like the Bombay mail and Kalka Mail. The AC Express had a AC Restaurant Car which we liked to use. The Kalka Mail did have a Restaurant Car which we never used.

Also the lack of connecting gangways in trains was another deterrent. Typically the Restaurant was adjacent to the upper class segment of the train, even though often not connected by gangways. So you had to wait for a stop to get to it. But then trains stopped quite often back then, so that was not a problem.

The AC Express introduced between new Delhi and Howrah in 1956 was the first train that was fully gangway connected.

Recently, I have noticed that there is a move to allow the inclusive meals to be rejected, and receive a lower fare charge.
Indians have such varied tastes and cuisines that it is almost impossible to meet the smallest expectations of everyone. This is merely a recognition of that fact. This becomes easier to handle with the introduction of food ordering using Smartphones

Although the social side of the dining car is a big plus for Amtrak sleeper passengers, maybe reduced fares and just eliminating the diner option for "included" meals would work, PROVIDED they improved the food offerings available to purchase from the cafe car?
I have been on record stating this about twenty years back when the whole including food in the fare was started, and I was roundly hated for stating so back then. I did not like the across the board fare increase for food, half of which was useless for me.

The biggest problem that India faced in trying to serve food through Restaurant Cars is that it is well neigh impossible to serve 1500 people through Restaurant Cars - requires too many non-rev cars in a train whic already could do with more rev space to meet demand. So they chose to just get rid of as a means for serving food in general. Instead they have one prestige train that carries a Restaurant Car (Deccan Queen) more as a social thing than a food thing, and most Rajdhanis have a Cafe Counter in the Pantry Car.

Incidentally, the new express passenger cars are bringing back the concept of a food storage closet with both hot and cold storage facility in each passenger car, where food can be staged for delivery at the seat. This was designed into the original Rajdhani Cars, but somehow got lost on the way, causing some significant hygiene maintenance problems.

Trying to provide a hot, scrumptious meal in a box seems a bit of a stretch, given the lack of hot, scrumptious meals anywhere aboard Amtrak even with the diners!
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Some approximation of a reasonable hot meal in a box may be feasible. In India, because the cuisine involves a lot of fluids (gravy, Daal etc.) they are now tending towards using sealed "Thalis" (like in military canteens) except they are now using recyclable ones made of sugarcane waste and such other otherwise unused fibers. They are apparently liked by the customers too instead of the haphazard collection of plastic and foil wrapped fare with small aluminum cups for fluids etc.

 
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