Doors didn't open

[Trogdor]

However, when you say there were things the passenger could have done to prevent the problem, you are placing some of the blame on the passenger.

Whenever I walk across a street, I look both ways, and (to the extent possible) visually observe all nearby traffic approaching an intersection. I do this despite the walk signal telling me it's okay to go. Should some inattentive driver decide to come speeding through the intersection and run a red light without stopping, they will absolutely be 100% in the wrong. It doesn't make me any less injured (or any less dead) if I get hit.

Point is, it doesn't really matter who's right or who's wrong, or how much they're right or wrong. If there's a way someone can prevent something bad from happening (be it getting hit by a car, or being left on a platform), what's the harm in doing so?

I'd like to think that our goal should be to avoid having bad things happen, rather than being perfectly efficient at assigning blame after the fact.

 

[PRR 60]

However, when you say there were things the passenger could have done to prevent the problem, you are placing some of the blame on the passenger.

Whenever I walk across a street, I look both ways, and (to the extent possible) visually observe all nearby traffic approaching an intersection. I do this despite the walk signal telling me it's okay to go. Should some inattentive driver decide to come speeding through the intersection and run a red light without stopping, they will absolutely be 100% in the wrong. It doesn't make me any less injured (or any less dead) if I get hit.

Point is, it doesn't really matter who's right or who's wrong, or how much they're right or wrong. If there's a way someone can prevent something bad from happening (be it getting hit by a car, or being left on a platform), what's the harm in doing so?

I'd like to think that our goal should be to avoid having bad things happen, rather than being perfectly efficient at assigning blame after the fact.

Looking both ways before crossing a street. Yelling and waving to make sure train doors open at a scheduled stop. Yep. Pretty much the same.

My point is that looking both ways crossing a street is common sense. Not doing so puts the victim partially at fault, logically if not legally. Assuming a train will stop at a station and not open doors to let a passenger on board is not something anyone would assume would or could happen. Given the train left within one minute of stopping, at what point would you assume the doors are not opening? 10 seconds? 30 seconds? One minute - oops, to late. Train is leaving.

I had hoped this topic was over and done with.

 

[Eris]

I agree that it's absolutely unexpected for the doors not to open and someone not to step out and note a waiting passenger, and Amtrak is completely at fault in this case. HOWEVER, it is clear from this and the other recent thread that sometimes it happens; as such, it's worth noting for others reading, for the future, that sometime it happens, and that it would behoove a lonely passenger waiting alone at an unmanned station to take note of the fact that sometimes it happens and to have a plan for how to be SURE it does not happen to them. In this case, the lonely passenger was prepared for the weather and physically able to handle the surprise overnight, and that's great; if instead of an 18 year old man getting ready to head into military service the abandoned passenger was, say, a middle aged woman with asthma and no sleeping bag the ending to the story could have been much different. I think it's valuable to offer new sense (not, in this case, common) to people... be sure to make yourself known to the train when it arrives!

The lights argument is sort of a distraction, except inasmuch as it points out that a modern long-distance Amtrak train does not behave in the way a modern young person expects public transportation to behave. There is no automatic action, no motors that open the doors when the train stops in a station. You're not an idiot because you interpret what you see incorrectly, you're merely inexperienced or not yet educated about this specific thing (and really, I wouldn't expect that "green lights mean the brakes have been released" to be something most regular but not avid train passengers know, or need to know!).

 

[June the Coach Rider]

Having signage at the station noting where to stand for boarding sleepers or coach would help. Yes, there might need to be two sets of signs one for each direction of train, but most stations on the LD trains only have one or a few trains that stop. Having signage that reads for example "Train 7 - Empire Builder coach passenger boarding area, Train 8 - Empire Builder sleeper passenger boarding area" This way, conductors will have an area to look for passengers and the passengers that are expecting the doors by the station to open for coach will see the signs and hopefully be at the area closer to the open coach doors.

 

[Carolyn Jane]

This appears to be a small station. Is there a platform? Or is there just a paved spot where the train is expected to stop? I which case, there should be no need for signage. In Jesup, there is one paved area to access the train. When there are sleeper passengers boarding/leaving, as well as coach passengers, the train does a double spot. Sleepers first when sleepers are on the front. then it whistles and pulls forward for coach passengers. EM

 

[SarahZ]

Yeah, I'm still putting 100% on the conductor for this one. The young man was on the platform, bag in hand, so there's absolutely no excuse. I've hung around at KAL watching the Wolverine before, and 99% of the time, the conductor asks if I'm joining them before shutting the door. The only time I haven't been asked is when I hang back and make it really obvious I'm not joining them (i.e. stand by the station and wave at the train).

Also, until this thread, I would have thought green lights by the doors meant they were opening too.

Those green lights on superliners are often visible at night out my roomette window as my CZ travels around curves. So I certainly hope that doesn't mean all of the doors to those cars are open.

^_^

 

[Trogdor]

Looking both ways before crossing a street. Yelling and waving to make sure train doors open at a scheduled stop. Yep. Pretty much the same.

You clearly missed the point I was making, but, whatever.

 

[Ryan]

FWIW, I got it and agree.

I'm surprised at how little we know and how confident folks are in their opinions of this incident.

It's quite possible that the conductor opened the door and put "feet on the platform" and somehow still managed to not pick this kid up.

Hell, they may have waved at each other for all we know, and the conductor assumed that since the kid just waved and stood there that he wasn't planning on boarding and that his expected passenger was a no-show.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Yes, I remember waking up in the middle of the night on the CZ in the desert and whenever we went around a cruve I could see the green lights along the train, they have a slight blue tint when you see them like that. The green lights mean the train is about to depart, not that the doors are about to open. I think red lights mean the train is stopped.

I do understand that a wave can be meant to let the train go. I remember when I was standing near a trolley stop in Philadelphia and the operator opened the front doors, I waved and he closed the doors, then departed. Just saying.

 

[tonys96]

FWIW, I got it and agree.

I'm surprised at how little we know and how confident folks are in their opinions of this incident.

It's quite possible that the conductor opened the door and put "feet on the platform" and somehow still managed to not pick this kid up.

Hell, they may have waved at each other for all we know, and the conductor assumed that since the kid just waved and stood there that he wasn't planning on boarding and that his expected passenger was a no-show.

Quite true. All we know is the comments from the OP.

Who knows, the train may have stopped, and the entire crew of the train gotten out and jogged completely around the consist before reboarding and leaving.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

FWIW, I got it and agree.

I'm surprised at how little we know and how confident folks are in their opinions of this incident.

It's quite possible that the conductor opened the door and put "feet on the platform" and somehow still managed to not pick this kid up.

Hell, they may have waved at each other for all we know, and the conductor assumed that since the kid just waved and stood there that he wasn't planning on boarding and that his expected passenger was a no-show.

I'm surprised at how little effort it takes to flood a thread with so many imaginary theories that nobody knows what to believe anymore. Bravo.

 

[zephyr17]

Yes, I remember waking up in the middle of the night on the CZ in the desert and whenever we went around a cruve I could see the green lights along the train, they have a slight blue tint when you see them like that. The green lights mean the train is about to depart, not that the doors are about to open. I think red lights mean the train is stopped.

I do understand that a wave can be meant to let the train go. I remember when I was standing near a trolley stop in Philadelphia and the operator opened the front doors, I waved and he closed the doors, then departed. Just saying.

Yellow on those lights by the Superliner doors mean the brakes on that car are set. Green means the brakes are released. There are no red lights. They are there to indicate the status of brake status of all the cars on the train to the operating crew, particularly the engineer. They have nothing at all to do with the doors.

 

[buddy559]

Yes, I remember waking up in the middle of the night on the CZ in the desert and whenever we went around a cruve I could see the green lights along the train, they have a slight blue tint when you see them like that. The green lights mean the train is about to depart, not that the doors are about to open. I think red lights mean the train is stopped.

I do understand that a wave can be meant to let the train go. I remember when I was standing near a trolley stop in Philadelphia and the operator opened the front doors, I waved and he closed the doors, then departed. Just saying.

Yellow on those lights by the Superliner doors mean the brakes on that car are set. Green means the brakes are released. There are no red lights. They are there to indicate the status of brake status of all the cars on the train to the operating crew, particularly the engineer. They have nothing at all to do with the doors.

Yet another reason to not take amtrak. Unable to communicate boarding procedures to a new passenger.

 

[TraneMan]

Here is the yellow light when the train was at the station...

 

[SarahZ]

Yet another reason to not take amtrak. Unable to communicate boarding procedures to a new passenger.

Buddy, this situation was an exception, and don't let the lights discussion scare you. The conductors are supposed to get off at the station and help people board. You aren't expected to know the lights. As you can see by my post (and the resulting, multiple posts chiming in to correct my error), I'd never really noticed (or cared) about the lights until this thread, and I've been riding Amtrak since 2004 with absolutely zero problems boarding. Just look for the conductor and enjoy your trip.

 

[Ryan]

FWIW, I got it and agree.

I'm surprised at how little we know and how confident folks are in their opinions of this incident.

It's quite possible that the conductor opened the door and put "feet on the platform" and somehow still managed to not pick this kid up.

Hell, they may have waved at each other for all we know, and the conductor assumed that since the kid just waved and stood there that he wasn't planning on boarding and that his expected passenger was a no-show.

I'm surprised at how little effort it takes to flood a thread with so many imaginary theories that nobody knows what to believe anymore. Bravo.

You seem to have missed my point (or you have an awful funny way of agreeing with me).

Nobody here knows what happened on that platform, yet plenty of people are perfectly happy to say that nobody ever set foot off the train and that the conductor should 100% be fired for never even so much as opening a door.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Yet another reason to not take amtrak. Unable to communicate boarding procedures to a new passenger.

Buddy, this situation was an exception, and don't let the lights discussion scare you. The conductors are supposed to get off at the station and help people board. You aren't expected to know the lights. As you can see by my post (and the resulting, multiple posts chiming in to correct my error), I'd never really noticed (or cared) about the lights until this thread, and I've been riding Amtrak since 2004 with absolutely zero problems boarding. Just look for the conductor and enjoy your trip.

Its true that all evidence points to this being a rare exception and that's an important distinction to make. Full stop. OTOH, Buddy does seem to have a (somewhat snarky) point in that there's little explanation from Amtrak about what is expected of waiting passengers. Or the benefits of waving your hands and shouting at anything that moves in the first sixty seconds of arrival in order to avoid being left behind overnight at an unstaffed station. If anyone had suggested doing that before I read this thread I would have thought that making a scene with erratic behavior immediately upon arrival would probably do more prevent easy boarding than assisting it.

Its also true that the claim made is this thread has never happened to me or anyone I know. Full stop. I rarely board late trains at unstaffed stations in the middle of nowhere. If I should ever be left behind in such a place through no fault of my own I would be absolutely livid about it, but I might hesitate to mention it here. Unless I wanted to see folks from a heavily populated corridor take it upon themselves to fabricate all sorts of random counter arguments for what they think happened in the middle of nowhere when nobody else was around.

Nobody here knows what happened on that platform, yet plenty of people are perfectly happy to say that nobody ever set foot off the train and that the conductor should 100% be fired for never even so much as opening a door.

It is absolutely true that nobody besides the participants has any special insight into what actually happened on that platform, including me. Theres nothing wrong with questioning the OP and casting doubt on the veracity of the claim itself.

I too was wondering why the complaint made it to AU before Amtrak and why the actual traveler didn't post it. In the end I was more or less satisfied with the explanations given. What bothers me is the intentional fabrication of alternative explanations as some sort of imaginary counterweight. If were really the experts on Amtrak then why would we need to employ a crutch like that?

Imagine how ludicrous it would be to see a fabricated counter argument levied against a post about how everything went fine. It would be mocked relentlessly, and for good reason. But when a serious accusation is levied against Amtrak it seems that merely imagining potential counterpoints becomes a fully accepted response.

 

[tonys96]

Yet another reason to not take amtrak. Unable to communicate boarding procedures to a new passenger.

Buddy, this situation was an exception, and don't let the lights discussion scare you. The conductors are supposed to get off at the station and help people board. You aren't expected to know the lights. As you can see by my post (and the resulting, multiple posts chiming in to correct my error), I'd never really noticed (or cared) about the lights until this thread, and I've been riding Amtrak since 2004 with absolutely zero problems boarding. Just look for the conductor and enjoy your trip.

THIS

 

[henryj]

I love how all the foamers on here are defending Amtrak and making it the passengers fault.

 

[Ryan]

Where?

Please feel free to point out anyone saying it's the passenger's fault.

 

[SarahZ]

I think this thread has served this purpose and deserves to die. This is getting ridiculous.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I think this thread has served this purpose and deserves to die. This is getting ridiculous.

Then what are you doing in here?

 

[SarahZ]

I think this thread has served this purpose and deserves to die. This is getting ridiculous.

Then what are you doing in here?

I was responding to Buddy's post about the lights because I didn't want him to be nervous.

I was simply suggesting the mods close the thread, like others that have been "resolved" in a week and then continue for another week or two simply so the same four people can argue and nitpick each other to death.

I had no "motivation". I'm not a mod. Also, I have every right to express the opinion that rehashing the same arguments for multiple pages is stupid. Every time someone new joins (and neglects to read the previous pages), the arguments start all over again.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I tried to take this to PM, but apparently you don't approve of that either, so here goes...

If you don't like what's being said in a given thread then maybe you should take responsibility for managing your own sensibilities and simply leave. If someone is breaking the rules then by all means report it to the moderators using the tools already provided to you. Broadcasting your desire to see a thread locked simply because you don't approve of the content is a bit overbearing, don't you think?

 

[June the Coach Rider]

I think this thread has served this purpose and deserves to die. This is getting ridiculous.

Not wanting to rock the boat, but this information can be very important for new passengers who have no idea how to proceed. If this thread keeps just one person from being left behind because they thought the lights were for doors rather than the brakes, then it has been worth it. When I see a thread that goes on and on, I just don't read it, no one forces anyone to click on the thread to read it.