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Glad to see you son made it on the train, and he's out doing some adventure! I bet that warm train felt good to get on!
 
Tickets, voucher, I don't know, he did like a 15 day pass allowing 8 segments of travel. He has something printed that shows the 'reservations' and customer relations was concerned that he might have issues if he didn't pick up new 'tickets' with updated times and dates. He just texted a couple minutes ago...office was closed, guess the office person is the baggage handler and was unloading, go figure! Office re-opened he got his new 'tickets', back on the train headed to Portland! All is well!!
I'm so glad it worked out for you, I thought about your son's situation off/on yesterday. I wish him the best of luck with his military future. Peace.

Edit to add: if he can handle sleeping under a table in freezing weather, then boot camp should be a cinch, perhaps even some kind of special ops down the road. Resourcefulness and ingenuity are huge when it comes to survival situations.
 
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This one and the other one that had this happen on the Cardinal recently both.

It's easy to imagine a guest poster showing up here absolutely irate and just venting about how Amtrak is the worst and they're going to sue and call their congressperson and we're all stupid for liking Amtrak and yeah, they should have gotten out of their car and gone to the platform when they saw the train but IT'S AMTRACKS FAULT THEY SHOULD HAVE WAITED FOR ME!!!11!1!!!

Instead, both were level headed, and rolled with the punches. Sad that they were put in the situation and hopefully Amtrak will take corrective measures, but they handled it way better than most would.
Good summary, Ryan.

I am impressed that the young traveler was so responsible and resourceful, AND that he anticipates entering the service. Thanks to him and his parents for their contributions to the nation.

I've learned some lessons in this thread that will be valuable to me, too, in considering alternatives should I ever have a similar situation. #1 lesson for me is to keep that cell phone battery fully charged. I hate using the phone and probably would have forgotten that tidbit.
 
Maybe Amtrak needs to install "flags" at the flag stops.
The thing is West Glacier IS NOT a flag stop. The train always stops there.
Interestingly, I don't think this would have happened at a true flag stop, because IIRC they have methods with which they can create visibility to the loco engineer of their presence (usually a light switch).

Some "true" flag stops in Canada and perhaps Alaska can be anywhere along the track - you give a date and mile post info to the phone agent and they'll tell the engineer to expect you. Don't believe Amtrak offers that level of convenience anywhere in their system.

The fact that this was on a rail pass makes a little more sense as to the need for re-ticketing, but I still thought and believe that everything can be done electronically. That's the part that I wish someone from Amtrak could explain. I know it's more and more rare in this day and age, but what if he didn't have a cell phone? What if there was no cell phone coverage? My goodness! WHAT IF HE HAD AT&T??? This is a very good case study which, if we understand it correctly, could be used to help out future passengers in this forum.
 
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Amtrak conductors are human.

Humans make mistakes.
This falls in the "firing offense" category of mistake, however. Quite possibly the most important regular job of the conductor, outside emergencies, is to pick people up at flag stops.

It sounds like in this case and the other one, Amtrak handled the aftermath properly and did what it could to make things right.

Hopefully extra reminders will go out and they'll do better in the future.
Indeed, hopefully the conductors involved will be fired with cause.
 
Maybe Amtrak needs to install "flags" at the flag stops.
:p That's an idea. Though I was just reminded that West Glacier isn't a flag stop, so I suppose Amtrak would need flags at every unstaffed station!
 
I'm not ready to jump on the "fire him/her" bandwagon, sorry.

I'm not saying (s)he shouldn't either, just that we have insufficient info to make that call from behind a keyboard hundreds or thousands of miles away.
 
Amtrak conductors are human.

Humans make mistakes.
This falls in the "firing offense" category of mistake, however. Quite possibly the most important regular job of the conductor, outside emergencies, is to pick people up at flag stops.

It sounds like in this case and the other one, Amtrak handled the aftermath properly and did what it could to make things right.

Hopefully extra reminders will go out and they'll do better in the future.
Indeed, hopefully the conductors involved will be fired with cause.
As any good company, I would expect Amtrak to investigate this thoroughly, to see if there were extenuating circumstances. However, not stopping at a station, especially one that has a ticketed passenger waiting on the platform, is to me, definitely cause to fire a conductor. Or at least, demote that person to a lower position where they would not be burdened with responsibilities they can't successfully handle.

This does have me wondering (and I am not attempting to come up with an excuse for this conductor), does Amtrak have any policies regarding station stops? For example, is there a minimum "open door" time at any station? A requirement that the conductor actually step out of the train, and onto the platform, to look both ways for any boarding passengers?
 
Amtrak conductors are human.

Humans make mistakes.
This falls in the "firing offense" category of mistake, however. Quite possibly the most important regular job of the conductor, outside emergencies, is to pick people up at flag stops.
It sounds like in this case and the other one, Amtrak handled the aftermath properly and did what it could to make things right.

Hopefully extra reminders will go out and they'll do better in the future.
Indeed, hopefully the conductors involved will be fired with cause.
As any good company, I would expect Amtrak to investigate this thoroughly, to see if there were extenuating circumstances. However, not stopping at a station, especially one that has a ticketed passenger waiting on the platform, is to me, definitely cause to fire a conductor. Or at least, demote that person to a lower position where they would not be burdened with responsibilities they can't successfully handle.

This does have me wondering (and I am not attempting to come up with an excuse for this conductor), does Amtrak have any policies regarding station stops? For example, is there a minimum "open door" time at any station? A requirement that the conductor actually step out of the train, and onto the platform, to look both ways for any boarding passengers?
That is a very good question (policy for station stops). Some of the stops on the Zephyr are in the middle of Nevada, where on winter nights people might be waiting in their cars until the train comes. I wonder if the conductor, if they are expecting boarding passengers, takes a look in the parking lot or even down the road to see if a vehicle is approaching?. I would think that they must have some written policy on this; hard to believe that the Glacier incident occurred (unless something was amiss).
 
Maybe Amtrak needs to install "flags" at the flag stops.
I have seen flags available in past years at flag stops. Maybe they've been eliminated because they were being placed out on the platform by malcontents just to stop a train that otherwise might have coasted thru?

Or maybe they were being stolen? (which would be a virtual guarantee today if the signs were made of copper).
 
I'm sure someone has the blue book and can post chapter and verse...
I am hoping for such.

IMHO, if there isn't already, there should be a requirement that the doors be open at least for, say, 2 minutes at each station. Sorry, but if a train is running 40 minutes late, or 6 hours late, those two minutes aren't going to make a heck of a difference to their trip time. But it will make a major difference to that passenger waiting alone on a platform in the middle of a cold night.
 
Maybe Amtrak needs to install "flags" at the flag stops.
I have seen flags available in past years at flag stops. Maybe they've been eliminated because they were being placed out on the platform by malcontents just to stop a train that otherwise might have coasted thru?

Or maybe they were being stolen? (which would be a virtual guarantee today if the signs were made of copper).
OK. One more time for those who missed it...... West Glacier is NOT a flag stop. It is a scheduled stop. So whether there is a flag or not at West Glacier is irrelevant.
 
Amtrak conductors are human.

Humans make mistakes.
This falls in the "firing offense" category of mistake, however. Quite possibly the most important regular job of the conductor, outside emergencies, is to pick people up at flag stops.
It sounds like in this case and the other one, Amtrak handled the aftermath properly and did what it could to make things right.

Hopefully extra reminders will go out and they'll do better in the future.
Indeed, hopefully the conductors involved will be fired with cause.
As any good company, I would expect Amtrak to investigate this thoroughly, to see if there were extenuating circumstances. However, not stopping at a station, especially one that has a ticketed passenger waiting on the platform, is to me, definitely cause to fire a conductor. Or at least, demote that person to a lower position where they would not be burdened with responsibilities they can't successfully handle.

This does have me wondering (and I am not attempting to come up with an excuse for this conductor), does Amtrak have any policies regarding station stops? For example, is there a minimum "open door" time at any station? A requirement that the conductor actually step out of the train, and onto the platform, to look both ways for any boarding passengers?
That is a very good question (policy for station stops). Some of the stops on the Zephyr are in the middle of Nevada, where on winter nights people might be waiting in their cars until the train comes. I wonder if the conductor, if they are expecting boarding passengers, takes a look in the parking lot or even down the road to see if a vehicle is approaching?. I would think that they must have some written policy on this; hard to believe that the Glacier incident occurred (unless something was amiss).
Williams Junction, Arizona would be a Perfect Example of this! There's No There There! And the Van that Picks Up/Drops Off Passengers in the Dark to take them to the Grand Canyon is the Only thing Around for Miles! Wonder what Folks do that Drive themselves to this Stop? Or do they go to Flagstaff to Catch the Train/Pickup Passengers??? :hi:
 
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Maybe Amtrak needs to install "flags" at the flag stops.
I have seen flags available in past years at flag stops. Maybe they've been eliminated because they were being placed out on the platform by malcontents just to stop a train that otherwise might have coasted thru?

Or maybe they were being stolen? (which would be a virtual guarantee today if the signs were made of copper).
OK. One more time for those who missed it...... West Glacier is NOT a flag stop. It is a scheduled stop. So whether there is a flag or not at West Glacier is irrelevant.
And in these days of electronic manifests, the conductor should know in advance if, and how many, pax are scheduled to board, flagstop or otherwise.
 
Glad to hear it, sounds like you've got a good kid there.

Perhaps the rail pass explains why he needed new tickets, do they still need paper tickets?
The dates of the rail pass are beginning and end dates and the reservations have to match. If his trip starts a day later, then the 15 days is a day later and it can mess up all the rest of the reservations, so yes, he would need new paper tickets with the new dates.
 
Common sense should also make one react to the fact that other doors aren't opening and that one should be proactive if one doesn't wish to get left behind.
I don’t see how there was enough time to realize something was wrong and alert anyone before the train was already moving again.

The OP John made mention of the fact that his son observed the lights and assumed that meant that the doors were about to open. Unlike you, I provided helpful information that he could convey to his son with whom he was in contact with so as to avoid having his son make the same mistake again.
This doesn't sound like the kind of kid that would miss a train due to being confused by the lights.

You ignored the part of my statement where I clearly stated that the conductor should have done more.
You also said that just before you went into how the passenger didn’t do his own “common sense proactive” waving of arms and shouting at whoever happens to be around in the span of sixty seconds or whatever he had available to him. One step forward and two steps back.

The only one muddying the water here would seem to be you. You're the one reading what you want to believe into the statements & questions that I posted.
You seem absolutely convinced that Amtrak is almost never 100% at fault. There’s almost always something the other side did that must be discovered (or simply imagined) and pointed out to everyone else. This thread being no exception. Oddly enough you don’t seem to have any similar problem assigning the passenger 100% of the blame when they're at fault.
 
All is still going well. He did find a 'rock climbing' gym in Portald to goof on in and it had a shower! Guess he was feeling a bit grungy as that was a big deal to him. As long as he makes the train change in L.A. in about an hour...he'll be home at 4am. Will post back.
 
At most of the smaller stations, trains are only scheduled to be there for one minute.

Managers are constantly warning conductors not to exceed the scheduled dwell time.

Paper manifest or electronic, there are quite a few people who are expected but end up not being there when the train arrives.

A conductor, especially on a late train isnt't going to spend a lot of time looking around for someone.

A lot of the western trains have about 40 station stops over the duration of their run, add a minute or two waiting at each of these stops and people are going to be missing connections at the end points.
 
This does have me wondering (and I am not attempting to come up with an excuse for this conductor), does Amtrak have any policies regarding station stops? For example, is there a minimum "open door" time at any station? A requirement that the conductor actually step out of the train, and onto the platform, to look both ways for any boarding passengers?
The Blue Book says the conductor "must be on the platform at all station stops".
 
Given the info we have received so far clearly the Conductor failed to follow the rules in this case. But this also would not be the first time that a bad apple Conductor played a little fast and loose with rules either.

(null)
 
Yeah, I'm still putting 100% on the conductor for this one. The young man was on the platform, bag in hand, so there's absolutely no excuse. I've hung around at KAL watching the Wolverine before, and 99% of the time, the conductor asks if I'm joining them before shutting the door. The only time I haven't been asked is when I hang back and make it really obvious I'm not joining them (i.e. stand by the station and wave at the train).

Also, until this thread, I would have thought green lights by the doors meant they were opening too.
 
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Aloha

Something I do not remember being said, but at night sometimes the light color may make the color of some clothes disappear, It is quit possible the conductor did not see anybody. Also many people have nite vision problems.

Many times in my job in theater I have been on stage in full view of the audience but still invisible due to our dress and lighting used. So it may just be an unfortunate error.
 
Common sense should also make one react to the fact that other doors aren't opening and that one should be proactive if one doesn't wish to get left behind.
I don’t see how there was enough time to realize something was wrong and alert anyone before the train was already moving again.
I'm sure you don't.

The OP John made mention of the fact that his son observed the lights and assumed that meant that the doors were about to open. Unlike you, I provided helpful information that he could convey to his son with whom he was in contact with so as to avoid having his son make the same mistake again.
This doesn't sound like the kind of kid that would miss a train due to being confused by the lights.
If that were true, then he wouldn't have told his dad what he did. You should really try reading what gets written instead of making things up to suit your version of reality.

You ignored the part of my statement where I clearly stated that the conductor should have done more.
You also said that just before you went into how the passenger didn’t do his own “common sense proactive” waving of arms and shouting at whoever happens to be around in the span of sixty seconds or whatever he had available to him. One step forward and two steps back.
Just more nonsense from you.

The only one muddying the water here would seem to be you. You're the one reading what you want to believe into the statements & questions that I posted.
You seem absolutely convinced that Amtrak is almost never 100% at fault. There’s almost always something the other side did that must be discovered (or simply imagined) and pointed out to everyone else. This thread being no exception. Oddly enough you don’t seem to have any similar problem assigning the passenger 100% of the blame when they're at fault.
Nope! Never said that. That's you pretending that you have any clue what I'm thinking, much less saying, and pretending that you're an advocate for anything. On the other hand, it most certainly does seem that you are 100% convinced that Amtrak is always at fault. I spend my time trying to figure out what happened and why. You spend your time trying to twist my words to suit whatever you think fits with your desire to bash Amtrak all the time.

But regardless, waving at the conductor or moving towards him after making eye contact is simply a pro-active move on the part of the person. It in NO way shape or form abdicates Amtrak of any responsibility for leaving him on that platform. Except in your mind, because you've decided that your job is to translate what everyone says into what you want them to have said.
 
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