Dome on the Cardinal

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Chris J.

Lead Service Attendant
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"There are now TWO opportunities to ride Amtrak’s Great Dome car! Hop aboard the Adirondack to view upstate New York’s fall foliage September 23rd – October 24th or catch the Cardinal as it makes two round-trips from Chicago to Washington on October 30th and November 6th. Catch a sneak peak of the Great Dome car as we cover its annual arrival on the Adirondack September 23rd."

So Amtrak is putting the Dome on the Cardinal to get it from Chicago to Washington - but how will it get from there to the Adirondack? I thought it had clearance issues in the NYP tunnels and hence they only ran it north of Albany.
 
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Chris J. said:
"There are now TWO opportunities to ride Amtrak’s Great Dome car! Hop aboard the Adirondack to view upstate New York’s fall foliage September 23rd – October 24th or catch the Cardinal as it makes two round-trips from Chicago to Washington on October 30th and November 6th. Catch a sneak peak of the Great Dome car as we cover its annual arrival on the Adirondack September 23rd."

So Amtrak is putting the Dome on the Cardinal to get it from Chicago to Washington - but how will it get from there to the Adirondack? I thought it had clearance issues in the NYP tunnels and hence they only ran it north of Albany.
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Also keep in mind it only runs from Albany-Montreal, it does not go South of Albany nor North of WAS when on the Cardinal.
 
There's one roomette left on the 11/6 eastbound Cardinal run. The sleeper is already sold out on the 10/30 run. I wonder which Lake Shore Limited will have the Great Dome.
 
Don't get your hopes up if you're booking a Lake Shore Limited ticket. When the dome went east last Thursday evening CHI-ALB, it was deadheading behind the rear baggage car. Likely will do the same on the way back west.
 
Trogdor said:
Don't get your hopes up if you're booking a Lake Shore Limited ticket. When the dome went east last Thursday evening CHI-ALB, it was deadheading behind the rear baggage car. Likely will do the same on the way back west.
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No, I'm on the 10/30 Cardinal. It does seem a waste, though, to deadhead the Great Dome on the Lake Shore Limited, though perhaps that makes switching in Albany easier.
 
Ispolkom said:
There's one roomette left on the 11/6 eastbound Cardinal run. The sleeper is already sold out on the 10/30 run. I wonder which Lake Shore Limited will have the Great Dome.
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Its nice that the dome car is coming to the Cardinal but the more pressing need is another sleeper. The Cardinal almost always sells out its one sleeper car and the prices are higher than on any other route. It can be said that if they sell out then high bucket fares are justified but the other side of the coin is that if Amtrak can sell out one sleeper they can probably sell out two or three sleepers. However if they added another sleeper or two, the diner lite car that they have couldn't handle the food service task. As it is now, if the Cardinal fills up they don't have sufficient capacity to handle the food service.
 
Since we have this thread come up on a regular basis, submitted for consideration:

:hi: Until the new Viewliner sleepers and bag/dorm cars get into service (maybe in our lifetime? :rolleyes: )why not take one of the sleepers from the Silver trains (I believe the Meteor usually has three, the Star two)in the Summer when no-one goes to Florida.

Also why is the Big Dome, aka Whooz'PV, kept in California most of the year, it could be run on the Card on a regular basis, then during leaf-peeper season hooked up with the Adirondack! Consideration could even be given to taking one of the sleepers off the Crescent during the Summer when it's too hot to go to New Orleans! This would @ least give partial relief to the chronic shortage of sleeping car rooms on the Card. In the winter it would just have to run as is or else switch over to Superliners as has been mentioned on lots of posts! No help on the diner until the new diners come on line unless Amtrak wanted to run a CCC car from CHI-WAS which would require a transdorm to access it,this would also open up rooms on the Viewliners that crew now use! ;)
 
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Amtrak could do a lot of things if it "really" wanted to add another Viewliner sleeper to the Cardinal. It would just require TWO Viewliners for the TWO Cardinal train sets. Currently Amtrak is running 39 (max) out of the 50 Viewliners, leaving 11 in reserve for repairs, overhaul, substitute etc. However, don't think that Chicago, New Orleans or even NYP has extra Viewliners around sitting in reserve. Where Amtrak keeps these 11 Viewliners is one of the biggest mysteries to me (Hialeah, FL - near Miami is their home base). Amtrak could easily reduce the 11 down to 9 and still be fine. After all, they are not operating the Federal any more for overnight sleeping car service! And let's not bring up the fact that Sunnyside Yard is now scheduled so that no train sets coming "in" have a same day turn to go back "out" (i.e. like Chicago does with the Capitol Limited and Lake Shore Limited). Amtrak used to be able to do this with the Silver Meteor when it departed southbound out of NYP at 7:00 p.m. So in summary, again, Amtrak could "re-arrange" things so a second Viewliner could be had for the Cardinal.

If the Cardinal had two Viewliner Sleeper - yes the Diner Lite would likely be overwhelmed. However, the Cardinal once had the pick of two out of four train sets running as the Silver Palm! Recall that the Silver Palm was truncated from Miami to Savannah to become the Palmetto. Then two out of the four train sets of the Silver Palm (operating with Hertiage Diner, Heritage Crew/Dorm Car, and Viewliner Sleeper) were transferred to the Cardinal and the Cardinal then lost its Superliner equipment due to shortages of Superliner equipment after a rash of train wrecks (Auto Train, Capitol Limited etc.). But it did have and keep for some time the Silver Palm's Heritage Diner and Heritage Crew/Dorm car. Then finally it took to a model of the former Three Rivers by offering meals in the Horizon or Amfleet cafe/lounge. But could there be TWO Heritage Diners out there sitting at Beech Grove awaiting some refurb for the use on the Cardinal - perhaps. There should be more than just two for that matter! Amtrak was able to get four Heritage Diners up and running to get the Lake Shore Limited back on course. The other option would be to operate two Diner Lite cars on the Cardinal. PLENTY of these to go around.

So what is that is holding Amtrak back from adding a second Viewliner sleeper? Again, if it wanted to add another Viewliner sleeper to the Cardinal's train set, I think Amtrak could, but it is not going to. When the Great Dome was advertised that it was going to be on the Cardinal - the Viewliner was booked up by the end of August. Obviously this train is getting the higher end revenue passengers booking in the Viewliner sleeper. I took the last roomette on one of the journeys and I made my booking in August. Then - to add insult to injury - Amtrak advertises the Cardinal as a train between "New York City and Chicago." With the Viewliner sleeper selling out months in advance, will people choose coach? And if the three Amfleet II coaches get sold out as a result of the promotion, will Amtrak add another Amfleet II coach (likely not).

It's been rumored that Amtrak has been wanting to get a better "sightseeing car" on the Cardinal's route. However, this would have to come via a Superliner Sightseer Lounge Car year round, with truncation of the Cardinal at Washington DC instead of NYC. This would be a resoration of Superliner equipment to the Cardinal. It's also been rumored that the Cardinal had better ridership #'s when it operated with Superliners, as opposed to single level equipment. But then people will say that it provides a direct connection to New York City with single level equipment. Well if it had better ridership numbers, more capacity, and better amenities while a Superliner train set - I completely dismiss the NYC direct route. Amtrak could and has easily provided for a "cross the platform" change. Many passengers now have to do this "cross the platform station change" at various cities due to Amtrak's re-working or cancelation of trains. Long story short - Amtrak has claimed it just doesn't have enough Superliner cars to make the Cardinal a Superliner train set.

Personally, I think putting the Great Dome on the Cardinal is a test, as Amtrak may see that this route could be for both "tourists/sightseers" and those just looking for basic transportation. If they can get a blend of both, they serve two markets, rather than perhaps 1 at present.
 
I wish I could remember where I read it, but from what I understand Amtrak is maxed out in terms of single level sleeping cars. You are forgetting that they need to come out at least every 92 days for mandatory FRA inspections, this I think is what hold the sleepers at 39 they have a spare in New York, New Orleans and Chicago, and the rest cycle in and out for inspection and repair work.
 
dlagrua said:
Ispolkom said:
There's one roomette left on the 11/6 eastbound Cardinal run. The sleeper is already sold out on the 10/30 run. I wonder which Lake Shore Limited will have the Great Dome.
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Its nice that the dome car is coming to the Cardinal but the more pressing need is another sleeper. The Cardinal almost always sells out its one sleeper car and the prices are higher than on any other route. It can be said that if they sell out then high bucket fares are justified but the other side of the coin is that if Amtrak can sell out one sleeper they can probably sell out two or three sleepers. However if they added another sleeper or two, the diner lite car that they have couldn't handle the food service task. As it is now, if the Cardinal fills up they don't have sufficient capacity to handle the food service.
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*headdesk*

They're only putting it on for a week... it's just a special thing. No reason to derail the conversation for the sake of grumbling about sleepers, again.
 
Too late.

jp1822, that's been hashed through to death here. Maybe someone less lazy than I am will break it all down, but without changing some schedules and having some tight equipment turns, the equipment just isn't available.
 
The assumption that another sleeper will not be added to the Cardinal is a correect one. I alway talk about it because Amtrak needs to realize that it is missing an opportunity to take in more revenue on this route. The Cardinal train is a small 5 car consist. Three coaches the diner lite and the sleeper on the tail end.

Here it is pulling into Culpeper VA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFnT10VJJeY
 
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Out of the 11 aforementioned sleepers; 1, sometimes 2, sit in Sunnyside Yard as protection sleepers. 1 is a protect sleeper for Hialeah. 2 sleepers are always out for the FRA mandatory yearly inspections that last 2 weeks per car. 3 cars are always out of service at any given time for the FRA mandated 92 day inspections. So right there 7 to 8 sleepers are gone for various reasons. Chicago is supposed to get a protect car, but it rarely has one.

And of course all of the above is before taking into account any cars that may have had a failure or worse, a wreck.
 
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How did all these inspection minimums become mandatory? Seems unlikely that someone like me would say this, but it almost seems a bit overkill. Especially considering how few inspections of any significance are required on personal vehicles that are involved in so many more wreaks, injuries, and deaths.
 
It's not Amtrak, its the FRA. The freight RRs have to follow similar laws (not rules, laws). Because these cars are carrying people they're held to more stringent standards.
 
daxomni said:
How did all these inspection minimums become mandatory? Seems unlikely that someone like me would say this, but it almost seems a bit overkill. Especially considering how few inspections of any significance are required on personal vehicles that are involved in so many more wreaks, injuries, and deaths.
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There's an old expression "many rules are written with blood (or in blood)". That is definately part of the equation here, something went wrong once and a new rule came about. But some of it is just common sense, like checking the brakes for wear & tear and so on. I'm not sure just why it's 92 days, as opposed to 90. But then this is the FRA which also gave us the 79MPH rule in effect.

The annual inspections are obviously far more intensive and often include overhaul work for the car that isn't required. But the annual would include things like checking the trucks for cracks and replacing them if they've gone too many miles or if cracks are found.
 
Micha, I think u r missing the point.........................

Sorry, I can't remember how to spell your name.
 
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What is the point?

Somehow we went from "woo hoo there's a dome on the Card for a little bit" to "what a waste, it would be better to have a sleeper than a dome" to "why are all these sleeping cars out of service?" -- I'm not the clueless person here.
 
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