Dome car on CZ

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The only Domes the CZ carries today are private/charter. During its Halcyon Days, the California Zephyr proudly advertised 5 Big Domes, including 4 Dome Coaches and the Dome Obervation (for Pullam pax).
 
The dome cars are private charters and not open to Amtrak passengers. And yes, the Superliners block the forward view from a dome.
 
Why do they lock it up?

Seems like a cheap opportunity to impress passengers.

Swing the transdorm over to the tail end of the train and bingo.
 
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D.P. Roberts said:
Devil's Advocate said:
Why do they lock it up?
Seems like a cheap opportunity to impress passengers.

Swing the transdorm over to the tail end of the train and bingo.
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But as others have said, it doesn't work with Superliner equipment. There would be no way to get to the dining car or cafe car, so there would be no food. There would be no way for conductors or other employees to get in or out of the car.
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But, if they used the transdorm car with it they could have access to the superliner equipment.
 
MrFSS said:
D.P. Roberts said:
Devil's Advocate said:
Why do they lock it up?

Seems like a cheap opportunity to impress passengers.

Swing the transdorm over to the tail end of the train and bingo.
Click to expand...
But as others have said, it doesn't work with Superliner equipment. There would be no way to get to the dining car or cafe car, so there would be no food. There would be no way for conductors or other employees to get in or out of the car.
Click to expand...
But, if they used the transdorm car with it they could have access to the superliner equipment.
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You're right, I misread the post & have since edited mine. AFAIK, the transdorm is needed where it is - transitioning between the Superliner equipment and the baggage car. So, if you moved the transdorm to the back to provide access to the dome car, you lose access to the baggage car. The transdorm serves a particular purpose where it is.

Besides, in the big picture, moving one car on one trip hardly makes a dent in Amtrak's revenue. To figure out how to rearrange the consist & staff the train for one special trip just can't be worth the time and money.
 
If you wanted to do it, you'd put the dome between the transdorm and the bag. Then you have coach pax tromping though all the sleepers to get to it if you open it to everyone (it would make one hell of a sleepers only lounge, though!).

You could flip it and put it on the back (last coach, transdorm, dome, bag), but that's a lot of shuffling for no real benefit.

Really, for the literal handful of times it happens per year it isn't worth worrying about.
 
Although the "forward view" on a dome is somewhat limited by Superliner cars, the overall ambiance and stunning view from the dome should not be missed, in-line with Superliner or not. Going 'round curves, you'll still see more, AHEAD, than you would with a regular SSL.

Alas, Amtrak's single dome is rarely used outside of SoCal, and leaf-peeper tours on the Adirondack and Cardinal.
 
Despite all the speculation, there will not be a dome on the CZ accessible to Amtrak passengers. There is only one Amtrak dome left, they never run it open to passengers when deadheading it on Superliner trains, they always put it at the rear of the consist, and they don't break up the consist to switch it in ahead of the transdorm or anywhere else.

There is a whole different discussion on the wisdom of Amtrak getting rid of virtually all its dome cars.
 
rrdude said:
Although the "forward view" on a dome is somewhat limited by Superliner cars, the overall ambiance and stunning view from the dome should not be missed, in-line with Superliner or not. Going 'round curves, you'll still see more, AHEAD, than you would with a regular SSL.
Alas, Amtrak's single dome is rarely used outside of SoCal, and leaf-peeper tours on the Adirondack and Cardinal.
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I've been on an ex-Milwaukee Road Super Dome car on the back of the Empire Builder a couple of times, and I didn't find the view forward from the Super Dome that great, even with a couple of single-level cars between us and the first Superliner car. The great advantage of the Super Dome on those trips for me was not the view forward, but that there were a lot fewer passengers in the Super Dome than there usually are in the Sightseer Lounge car.

I'll admit, though, that my lack of interest in the Super Dome might have had something to do with the presence of the Skytop observation car Cedar Rapids.
 
Amtrak could keep me equally happy with fast basic trains or with slow fancy trains. It's the slow basic train that I'm getting tired of. The one that plies 95% of the route network. When people ask me about Amtrak I explain that it's great for folks with sentimental memories, or lack of a drivers license, or a fear of flying, or a need for smoke breaks, or a desire to spend as little time at their destination as possible. For everyone else it's probably not worth more than one or two exploratory trips. Year after year I watch the airlines adjust routes and frequencies, upgrade interiors, implement new technology, replace aircraft, etc. We're talking about airlines that are supposedly helpless and broke. Even after major capacity reductions they're still dozens of times more convenient than my local Amtrak service. Meanwhile Amtrak keeps pulling the same cars on the same routes they've had since I was a naive little boy riding on his first train trip decades ago.
 
Ispolkom said:
rrdude said:
Although the "forward view" on a dome is somewhat limited by Superliner cars, the overall ambiance and stunning view from the dome should not be missed, in-line with Superliner or not. Going 'round curves, you'll still see more, AHEAD, than you would with a regular SSL.
Alas, Amtrak's single dome is rarely used outside of SoCal, and leaf-peeper tours on the Adirondack and Cardinal.
Click to expand...
I've been on an ex-Milwaukee Road Super Dome car on the back of the Empire Builder a couple of times, and I didn't find the view forward from the Super Dome that great, even with a couple of single-level cars between us and the first Superliner car. The great advantage of the Super Dome on those trips for me was not the view forward, but that there were a lot fewer passengers in the Super Dome than there usually are in the Sightseer Lounge car.

I'll admit, though, that my lack of interest in the Super Dome might have had something to do with the presence of the Skytop observation car Cedar Rapids.
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The Milwuakee Road Super Dome is a "poorly" designed Full Length Dome as the seats are too low compared to the lower edge of the windows, limiting the panoramic view. While I have seen pictures and interior diagrams of the 3 main Full Length Domes (MW, ATSF. GN), I have never been in one to compare seating; so I'm just going by what other folks report.
 
While the forward view is better on the Budd full-length domes (AT&SF "Big Domes", GN "Great Domes") than on the Milwaukee's Super Dome, it still isn't as good as that in a Budd short dome.
 
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OlympianHiawatha said:
The Milwuakee Road Super Dome is a "poorly" designed Full Length Dome as the seats are too low compared to the lower edge of the windows, limiting the panoramic view. While I have seen pictures and interior diagrams of the 3 main Full Length Domes (MW, ATSF. GN), I have never been in one to compare seating; so I'm just going by what other folks report.
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I can't say that I noticed much of a difference upstairs between the Super Dome and the ex-Great Northern Great Dome Amtrak still has, but I've only been on the latter car on one Chicago-Washington trip, so probably I'm wrong. I'll grant you that the windows are way too high downstairs on the Super Dome.

While the forward view is better on the Budd full-length domes (AT&SF "Big Domes", GN "Great Domes") than on the Milwaukee's Super Dome, it still isn't as good as that in a Budd short dome.
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The problem with the short domes (which are definitely better for viewing) is the limited seating. I found it very hard to get a seat in a dome on the Canadian at any time except dawn.
 
I didn't have much of a problem getting a seat in a dome on the Canadian, especially in the Skylines. The Park car tended to be a bit more crowded. But then again, I rode it in September and they were still running a full summer consist of well over 20 cars (I want to say 27, but can't recall exactly) with 3 Skylines (2 for the sleepers, one for the coaches) and the Park, and I don't think they had a full load.

BTW, off topic, but does anyone know why (and when) they "reversed" the layout of Skylines so that they are setup to run with the stairs in the front? They were delivered in pretty much the same configuration as the mid train CZ dome lounges, and were set up, like all Budd domes, with the stairs in the rear. It compromises the night time experience since the light coming up from the stairs causes reflections looking out front.

I don't even know whether it was Via or CP that did it.
 
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When I rode the Canadian in Feburary we had a Group Board in Vancouver and the Consist had Two Dome Cars and the Park Car and VIA actually added a Dome and Two Sleepers for the Group and if another Diner had been available would have added it also! I was told that VIA did the Switching in Vancouver, not sure about Toronto?? As was said, the Park Car was always Full during the Day but the Two Domes Usually had Seats available at all Times!

The Dome Car Set Up was as you descibed, with the Domes having the Stairs facing Forward and of course the Park Car with the Stairs facing the Back since having the Round End Observation Area facing Forward would be something only Amtrak might pull! <_<

(Ive seen Several Platform PV's on Amtrak Trains with the Platform facing Forward! :help: )
 
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I did really see that much difference in the "see ahead" visibility of the Milwaukee Road Super Domes compared to the Great Northen Great Domes or the Santa Fe Big Domes and I rode in all 3 numerous times. The Espree Domes were somewhat similar. Both The Milwaukee Road Super Domes and Espee Domes were home built by the Railroads while the GN and Santa Fe's were built by Budd.
 
They used to clean the windows mid-route but I think they've done away with all of that.

Once they started replacing their original glass windows with plastic I stopped worrying about it.
 
The SP '3/4 length' domes had terrible forward visibility....the forward view was like looking thru a mail-slot. These cars were of a lower profile than the other full length domes, for SP's tunnel clearances. They were constructed by SP shops combining former 'Cascades' PS cars, with a dome section that was built by Budd, and shipped to the SP for complettion. These cars were also unique in that you had to go thru the dome section to get thru the car--there was only a 'crawl space' beneath the dome. They did have a bar lounge at standard floor height at one end, with a 'cathedral ceiling' above it.

The MILW Super Domes were built by Pullman Standard. They were very similar to the Budd built 'Great Dome' (Empire Builder), and Big Dome' (SF Chief), except the Budd full length domes side windows did not curve as far into the ceiling panel as the PS ones did, but the glass panels were much longer, with less bars between them...

The short domes came in a multitude of varieties. The most prevalent were the Budd's, which I agree offered the best overall visibility 'Up, Down, and All Around'. They also made a 'low profile version' that were purchased by the C&O. The ACF 'Astra Domes', used by the UP, might have even been better, as their single row of side windows curved up almost as high as the Budd's double row. Then there were the Pullman short domes used on the Super Chief, It was designed to run with its stairway forward, account the 'Turquise Room' in its rear end had to be adjacent to the diner. PS also produced the four 'Train of Tomorrow dome cars. All the PS short domes had flat panel windows.

Edit...the story of domes should include the first modern dome car--CB&Q's home built 'Silver Dome' converted from a Budd coach with flat panel windows...
 
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