Article about new train Boston-Cape Cod

Discussion in 'Freight, International and Other Rail' started by none, May 27, 2013.

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

  1. May 27, 2013 #1
  2. May 27, 2013 #2

    the_traveler

    the_traveler

    the_traveler

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,540
    Location:
    Whatever siding I'm sitting on!
    My only question is why only weekends in summer? Why not daily in summer?
     
  3. May 27, 2013 #3

    stntylr

    s

    stntylr

    OBS Chief

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    610
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
  4. May 28, 2013 #4

    DET63

    D

    DET63

    Conductor

    Joined:
    May 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,777
    Either not enough expected demand, lack of equipment availability, and/or lack of track availability.
     
  5. May 28, 2013 #5

    DET63

    D

    DET63

    Conductor

    Joined:
    May 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,777
    Wikipedia article about cessation of The Cape Codder service, which started in 1986:

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2013
  6. May 28, 2013 #6

    MikefromCrete

    M

    MikefromCrete

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    2,468
    Location:
    Crete, IL
    Testing the waters. If there's enough demand, daily service could be possible.
     
  7. Jul 17, 2013 #7

    CHamilton

    CHamilton

    CHamilton

    Conductor AU Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    5,275
    Location:
    Seattle
  8. Jul 17, 2013 #8

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    23,960
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    Of course we will carefully not mention that the whole venture would be impossible in the absence of highly subsidized MBTA :)
     
  9. Jul 17, 2013 #9

    AG1

    A

    AG1

    OBS Chief

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    750
    This wasn't an MBTA initiative. The Cape Cod Regional Transit Authority is the source of operational funds for the service. The CCRTA contracted with the MBTA too provide and operate the equipment. I think the MBTA would have included sufficient cost recovery of subsidies in the fixed cost contract. The tracks are owned by the Massachusetts DOT. They provided the capital for track tie renewal and brush cutting. That work was needed for track standards maintenance, anyhow.
     
  10. Jul 17, 2013 #10

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    23,960
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    Yes, but if there was no MBTA in place in the first place there would have been no one to contract with at the current prices for CCRTA. So one cannot get away from the availability of the core facilities being used as a result of subsidized infrastructure being in place.

    This by the way, is no different from a subsidized highways system being in place for a bus service to start up with minimal subsidy. But the claim of minimal subsidy is mostly about incremental subsidy, not total subsidy, in both cases.
     
  11. Jul 17, 2013 #11

    George Harris

    G

    George Harris

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    5,027
    Location:
    now in California
    "Ferry without hugh subsidy"? With all the navigation aids, clearance requirements for bridges over any waterway that can by any stretch of the imagination be considered "Navigatable", dredging, etc. water bourne transportation is probably the most heavily subsidized of all transportaton forms in this country.
     
  12. Jul 18, 2013 #12

    Swadian Hardcore

    Swadian Hardcore

    Swadian Hardcore

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    7,345
    Location:
    Inland Streamliner, Reno, NV
    I see that the railcars are painted specially for this train. What will they be used for when this train does not operate?

    Nice MP locomotive, by the way.
     
  13. Jul 18, 2013 #13

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    23,960
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    Railcars? No, looks like just the one or perhaps even a few cars has special stick on wrap, just like other advertizing wraps one sees from time to time. The second car in that train appears to be standard MBTA livery
     
  14. Jul 19, 2013 #14

    Swadian Hardcore

    Swadian Hardcore

    Swadian Hardcore

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    7,345
    Location:
    Inland Streamliner, Reno, NV
    So, it's like a big decal or transit advertising wrap? Maybe they will peel it off after the inauguration and just run at as a regular MBTA service.
     
  15. Jul 19, 2013 #15

    railiner

    railiner

    railiner

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,057
    Location:
    Queens, NY
    Just wondering, is this the longest route of an MBTA train? Any others come close?
     
  16. Jul 20, 2013 #16

    Eric S

    E

    Eric S

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Messages:
    2,430
    Location:
    Milwaukee
    After the inaugural run of the service? It's been running since Memorial Day weekend. Or do you mean after the inaugural year/summer of service?

    And, it's not a regular MBTA service, it's more of a CCRTA service (or partnership between MBTA and CCRTA).
     
  17. Jul 20, 2013 #17

    Anderson

    A

    Anderson

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    9,012
    Location:
    Virginia
    I think this might be the first "commuter" service to turn a profit since...the 60s, maybe? Granted, it's an odd stepchild between a commuter train, Amtrak, and an excursion...but it's still impressive to see it running in the black. Hopefully (especially since Cape Cod really isn't a candidate for highway construction if my read on the area is right) the service will get beefed up next year to include more days of service and/or a slightly longer operating period (i.e. May-October)...and in the longer term, get extended further into the Cape area.

    Of course, that might beget its own problem...if the service is getting jammed full on a limited schedule, the weekend trains might actually get swamped as a consequence. Then again, if the numbers are right, the service might actually be profitable enough to justify adding a few cars to an equipment order down the line.
     
  18. Jul 21, 2013 #18

    Swadian Hardcore

    Swadian Hardcore

    Swadian Hardcore

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    7,345
    Location:
    Inland Streamliner, Reno, NV
    I'm interested too, what's the world's longest commuter rail ine? As in a freuqent rush-hour service to serve commuters, with much less service in the middle of the day.

    Eh, never mind.
     
  19. Jul 21, 2013 #19

    AG1

    A

    AG1

    OBS Chief

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    750
    Nitpicking. Amtrak is not involved with this service. The MBTA was contracted by the Cape Cod Regional Transit Authority(buses) too run this at a fixed cost. The ticket revenue goes to the CCRTA who states it is currently ahead of proportional costs . The extension from the end of MBTA territory at Middleborough to Hyannis, on Cape Cod, has carried 100 to 300 passengers a trip. I live close enough too monitor the passenger counts as reported on the radio. The train can seat an estimated 750 passengers. Hyannis at mid-Cape Cod is the end of the line, probably forever. The former rail bed beyond Hyannis is now the popular Cape Cod(recreational) Trail and utilities companies' right of way.
     
  20. Jul 21, 2013 #20

    Anderson

    A

    Anderson

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    9,012
    Location:
    Virginia
    *ahem*

    It has elements of all three types of service:
    -It has certain operational elements in line with a commuter operation.

    -From what I can tell, it has OBS akin to Amtrak (or some chartered excursions)

    -It has scheduling somewhere between an excursion operation and "normal" Amtrak operation (note that on most routes with substantially different weekend service, that different service is a reshuffling of frequencies and/or involves adding stops to pick up slack from a commuter line not operating).
     
  21. Jul 21, 2013 #21

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    23,960
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    And a big plus is unlike Amtrak it is unreserved! This attracts spontaneous travel, and I believe, unlike Amtrak no yield management which also encourages spontaneous travel.
     
  22. Jul 21, 2013 #22

    Rail Freak

    Rail Freak

    Rail Freak

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Messages:
    4,822
    Location:
    Tampa Bay, Florida
    Does it stop in Sandwich?
     
  23. Jul 21, 2013 #23

    railiner

    railiner

    railiner

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,057
    Location:
    Queens, NY
    Somehow, I posted incorrectly, and can't figure out how to add my comments to S H's separately....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2013
  24. Jul 21, 2013 #24

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    23,960
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    Stops only at Middleborough, Buzzards Bay and Hyannis TC. So it appears not, since Sandwich is between Buzzards Bay and Hyannis.
     
  25. Jul 21, 2013 #25

    the_traveler

    the_traveler

    the_traveler

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,540
    Location:
    Whatever siding I'm sitting on!
    I doubt it can be expanded much further onto the Cape. As said beyond Hyannis, the former rail bed is unusable as a railroad, and the easternmost portion of the Cape (to Provincetown) has a 2 lane road and very little extra room available.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2013

Share This Page



arrow_white