Amtrak's Marketing Pitch & Degenerating Food Service

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Is there any chance of Amtrak introducing rotating menus on its long distance trains that operate west and south of Chicago, different menus for either each train or each second train?
What you're describing is how things used to work until they got rid of it in the name of cost savings. If there is a chance of the dining service substantially improving it will need to wait for Boardman's successor at a minimum. More realistically it would probably require a change of leadership in both the House and the Senate, which is extremely unlikely in my view.
Actually, this probably needs to wait for Mica to get off the Transportation Committee. Mica is 73 years old so this may happen fairly soon even if he doesn't get knocked out by the voters. Which he might, since the demographics of his district have been moving against him.
 
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The district also has been forced redistricted a bit by a judge and he does have some one somewhat credible running against him. So it is a bit less of a safe district for him, but by no means is it a shoo in for his opponent.
 
We don't have many friends who take the train, but when we tell them about the diner, they typically get quite interested. "Better than airplane" food is, for us, a key leg of the whole reason to take a LD train in the first place vs flying. The others being scenery, sleeper accomodations, etc.

If Amtrak destroy their food service as one of their precious few advantages over flying, it may have very bad consequences for LD sleeper ridership.

We deliberately booked The Canadian instead of the CZ for our next trip after seeing how much better the onboard services are on VIA.

Thots?
the services on the Canadian are 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 times better, especially in prestige class
 
Actually, this probably needs to wait for Mica to get off the Transportation Committee.
What's the likelihood Mica could be replaced by someone just as bad for Amtrak - or worse?
From the same district? Almost zero. Either he won't be replaced, or he will be replaced by someone much better. We already have a pretty good idea what his only credible challenger's views are. But whoever is the new person, he won't have seniority, and Schuster is being challenged by a Tea party person who has managed to get the nomination from the Pennsylvania Democratic Party who will be bad for Amtrak. But then again, he also won't have seniority should he get elected knocking off Schuster.

I don't know what the Seniority pecking order in the Republican Congressional Delegation is these days for the transportation slot. According to 538, the chances of the House of Representatives turning over are slim as things stand today.
 
Practically none.

Someone who only wants to listen to their own ideas, doesn't want to hear logical arguments or positions from anyone else, spreads their own incorrect ideas as "facts," and has a completely illogical disdain and pet peeve against something....

Well, that pretty much sums up Mica's attitude toward Amtrak. He has done as much as anyone possibly could to destroy it.

By the way, jis was posting as I was writing (and correcting) mine, and he has better knowledge of Florida politics than I do and who might challenge Mica.
 
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We don't have many friends who take the train, but when we tell them about the diner, they typically get quite interested. "Better than airplane" food is, for us, a key leg of the whole reason to take a LD train in the first place vs flying. The others being scenery, sleeper accomodations, etc.

If Amtrak destroy their food service as one of their precious few advantages over flying, it may have very bad consequences for LD sleeper ridership.

We deliberately booked The Canadian instead of the CZ for our next trip after seeing how much better the onboard services are on VIA.

Thots?
the services on the Canadian are 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 times better, especially in prestige class
And the cost for prestige is 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 times more expensive than Amtrak's Deluxe Bedroom. Frankly, I am one who likes Amtrak better than Via Rail especially the food choice since I am not much of a lamb, seafood, or duck eater. Once you have ridden the Canadian between Toronto and Edmonton it becomes a very boring ride. And on my trip on the Ocean and Corridor I do not accept that the service on board is better.
 
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We don't have many friends who take the train, but when we tell them about the diner, they typically get quite interested. "Better than airplane" food is, for us, a key leg of the whole reason to take a LD train in the first place vs flying. The others being scenery, sleeper accomodations, etc.

If Amtrak destroy their food service as one of their precious few advantages over flying, it may have very bad consequences for LD sleeper ridership.

We deliberately booked The Canadian instead of the CZ for our next trip after seeing how much better the onboard services are on VIA.

Thots?
the services on the Canadian are 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 times better, especially in prestige class
I wouldn't say that at all. I found VIA staff to be way more "consistent" than Amtrak. But I've had better staff on Amtrak trains than on the Canadian. But I've had much worse on Amtrak as well.... Like I said... via is mostly consistent.
 
Interestingly we are comparing one twice a week in the winter and thrice a week in the summer, with the entire LD service of Amtrak, which is anything but an apples to apples comparison. But I suppose whatever rocks ones boat :)
 
Interestingly we are comparing one twice a week in the winter and thrice a week in the summer, with the entire LD service of Amtrak, which is anything but an apples to apples comparison. But I suppose whatever rocks ones boat :)
Would comparison of The Canadian with the three times a week CHI to LAX route of the Texas Eagle be an apples to apples one? Or would the TE's failure to go twice a week in the Winter and it's CHI to SAS leg being a daily one make that comparison meaningless too?

Perhaps a better question would be: in your opinion, are there any Amtrak and any VIA routes between which an apples to apples comparison can be made?
 
Frankly, I am one who likes Amtrak better than Via Rail especially the food choice since I am not much of a lamb, seafood, or duck eater. Once you have ridden the Canadian between Toronto and Edmonton it becomes a very boring ride. And on my trip on the Ocean and Corridor I do not accept that the service on board is better.
Overall I found the Canadian to have better service than Amtrak but they certainly weren't perfect. The Canadian had a weird departure out of Vancouver where the coach customers spent thirty minutes boarding first and the sleeper passengers had to rush to their cars as the doors were closing. They also seemed to suffer from temporary staff syndrome on board in the summer. People who didn't have the job year round sometimes struggled to keep things moving smoothly. There was also a weird situation where I needed something and nobody was around, so I knocked on a door that said "supervisor" in the middle of the daytime. Instead of receiving assistance some angry sleepy guy shouted at me to shut the door and leave him alone. I'm not sure what went wrong there but it seems like they should put up a sign that indicates the person inside is resting or is only available for emergencies or whatever.

Interestingly we are comparing one twice a week in the winter and thrice a week in the summer, with the entire LD service of Amtrak, which is anything but an apples to apples comparison. But I suppose whatever rocks ones boat.
I see this sentiment a lot but over time I've come to the conclusion that many people do see Amtrak LD routes like a US version of The Canadian, or at least would like to see it that way. The land cruise concept doesn't make much sense for coach but with sleeper prices sometimes stretching into thousands of dollars there are actual cruise ships that cost less than Amtrak. Same with first class airfare. Occasionally I've even seen Amtrak prices that came close to approaching the cost of a long distance multi-day taxi ride.
 
A two night vacation train trip on both is a fine, valid comparison. E.g., Winnipeg to Vancouver. Not commuting or business. Vacation.

Interestingly we are comparing one twice a week in the winter and thrice a week in the summer, with the entire LD service of Amtrak, which is anything but an apples to apples comparison. But I suppose whatever rocks ones boat :)
Would comparison of The Canadian with the three times a week CHI to LAX route of the Texas Eagle be an apples to apples one? Or would the TE's failure to go twice a week in the Winter and it's CHI to SAS leg being a daily one make that comparison meaningless too?
Perhaps a better question would be: in your opinion, are there any Amtrak and any VIA routes between which an apples to apples comparison can be made?
 
Interestingly we are comparing one twice a week in the winter and thrice a week in the summer, with the entire LD service of Amtrak, which is anything but an apples to apples comparison. But I suppose whatever rocks ones boat :)
Would comparison of The Canadian with the three times a week CHI to LAX route of the Texas Eagle be an apples to apples one? Or would the TE's failure to go twice a week in the Winter and it's CHI to SAS leg being a daily one make that comparison meaningless too?

Perhaps a better question would be: in your opinion, are there any Amtrak and any VIA routes between which an apples to apples comparison can be made?
None in my opinion. They serve completely different purposes. And of course like anyone else I am entitled to my opinion. ;)
 
Interestingly we are comparing one twice a week in the winter and thrice a week in the summer, with the entire LD service of Amtrak, which is anything but an apples to apples comparison. But I suppose whatever rocks ones boat :)
Would comparison of The Canadian with the three times a week CHI to LAX route of the Texas Eagle be an apples to apples one? Or would the TE's failure to go twice a week in the Winter and it's CHI to SAS leg being a daily one make that comparison meaningless too?

Perhaps a better question would be: in your opinion, are there any Amtrak and any VIA routes between which an apples to apples comparison can be made?
None in my opinion. They serve completely different purposes. And of course like anyone else I am entitled to my opinion. ;)
Maybe the Toronto - Montreal corridor could be compared to the NEC or Pacific Surfliner, at least in terms of the intent of the service?
 
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Interestingly we are comparing one twice a week in the winter and thrice a week in the summer, with the entire LD service of Amtrak, which is anything but an apples to apples comparison. But I suppose whatever rocks ones boat :)
Would comparison of The Canadian with the three times a week CHI to LAX route of the Texas Eagle be an apples to apples one? Or would the TE's failure to go twice a week in the Winter and it's CHI to SAS leg being a daily one make that comparison meaningless too?

Perhaps a better question would be: in your opinion, are there any Amtrak and any VIA routes between which an apples to apples comparison can be made?
None in my opinion. They serve completely different purposes. And of course like anyone else I am entitled to my opinion. ;)
Maybe the Toronto - Montreal corridor could be compared to the NEC or Pacific Surfliner, at least in terms of the intent of the service?
Yes. Indeed. I was commenting on the LD trains. Actually coming to think of it, the Ocean can be compared with Amtrak LD trains I think. OTOH, it would be completely crazy to try to compare the Skeena with anything. Maybe each day part of it can be compared with Palmetto sans domes. The Jonquiere and Saeneterre services are also Palmetto-ish though not daily, and certainly through much less populated areas.
 
A two night vacation train trip on both is a fine, valid comparison. E.g., Winnipeg to Vancouver. Not commuting or business. Vacation.
What is there that puts, say, a 3 night vacation trip on one train out of contention for comparison to a 2 night business or commuting trip on another train?

A two night trip from Winnipeg to Vancouver takes nearly 46 hours, covers 1568 miles and 6 meals are served.

• The EB's full route takes a mere 13 minutes more, covers 637 more miles but only 5 meals are served

• 6 meals are served on the CZ, but it takes about 6 more hours and covers 870 more miles

Do any two of those comprise a pair of apples? :)
 
I mean, I suppose one could compare them for that intent, but I don't think that Amtrak is trying to market to the higher-end vacation market to near the same extent that VIA's Canadian does.

But there's still way too many factors unknown to actually make a valid comparison for all but the strongest of railfan that's taking a trip primarily for the train trip, without much regard to what the destination is (and is willing to travel out of their way to get to a preferred starting point.) Most people, even if they are looking at taking the train, have a destination of some sort in mind, or are constrained by their starting point. It's much more feasible for someone in, say, Los Angeles to take the Coast Starlight and fly back from Seattle than to fly up to Winnipeg, take the Canadian, and then fly back from Vancouver. Furthermore, if someone in, say, New York City wants to take a train trip but they also want to visit San Francisco, it will take a lot of effort to convince that person to swing up to Canada to take a train trip just to come back down on an Amtrak segment anyways. Maybe Grand Forks - Seattle vs. WInnipeg - Vancouver? The mileage and time is very different, but the endpoints are about the same and it is a market where someone who wanted to could fairly easily choose between the two (for example, if someone from Grand Forks wanted to get to Vancouver, they could choose to drive to Winnipeg fairly easily.)

VIA's Canadian sleeper class is in a class of its own, probably more comparable to a charter trip that's publicly subsidized rather than an Amtrak sleeper car. It has frequencies that make it rather unuseful to someone who wants to take it with limited, fixed vacation time, and from what I've heard it's held to a higher standard than other VIA trains.

Frankly, I don't see Amtrak really caring if a customer here or there switches from Amtrak to VIA's Canadian. The Canadian is explicitly marketing for the tourist who is choosing a ride specifically for a train ride, at a huge loss to the taxpayer of Canada. I'd rather Amtrak focus their limited funds on sustaining a usable network with adequate food service rather than trimming routes to be unusable to all but a leisure traveler but having the on-board experience for the few that are taking it be 5-star.
 
For what it's worth... When I rode the Canadian there were several Canadians on board, in sleeper class, who were traveling for transit. I do agree the Canadian is marketed for tourists, and naturally the "Prestige Class" is for the International Rich crowd. But it is used for transit.

I did ride the Canadian in the winter time, so perhaps the lower fare and icy roads send more people to the train.

Likewise, the California Zephyr, which I've ridden several times in the past 3 years, seems to have a lot of international tourists, more so than other Amtrak trains based on my limited observations.
 
Got off the Cardinal this morning. I am sorry to report that the food was extremely sub-par. Dinner selections were steamed Talapia , Chicken Enchaladas, Pulled Pork with macaroni, and Rigitoni pasta . The people at our table all rated the food as poor. Even the deserts tasted like cheap sugar loaded twinkies. Terrible , absolutely terrible, worse than Mc Donalds or Taco Bell. The A/C didn't work in our room, the shower leaked water so the bathroom floor was always we, the bolsters on the lower bed came down during the night but Derek, the SCA did the best that he could and gets an A for effort. We will never take that route again. They have a lot of nerve charging what they do for a Chicago trip.
 
dlagrua sorry to hear about your experience. to the rest, this is exactly my point! we won't take the cardinal either because of the degraded food service.
 
I think dlagrua hits the nail squarely on the head as to the current state of LD travel on Amtrak!

Nickel and dime cuts,surly staff, sub-par food and worn out equipment @ High Prices seems to be the norm as Smiling Joe makes his Farewell Junket aboard the PV like Beech Grove and other Special cars. YMMV
 
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