Amtrak train with GOP congressional members hits truck (1/31/18)

[Seaboard92]

The cheapest and most effective solution are quad gates. Or cement medians in the roadways 100 ft prior to the track. But in a lot of places that wouldn't work because roads also parallel the track in places.

 

[akbrian]

Looking at Google Earth and watching the WSLS video, it sure appears that the road geometry at that crossing is particularly bad. FYI, I used "Lanetown Rd at Marymart Farm Rd, Crozet, VA" as my Google Earth search. I'll be curious to see if this is considered a factor in the findings. I'm also curious if a local short line railroad like the BBR has sufficient signal maintenance resources in order to test and maintain crossing equipment in a timely manner.

 

[neroden]

The drone provides visibility of the track ahead for obstacles like idiots running the tracks that the engineer won’t see until too late. The horn is just an added bonus.

And today was a PR disaster for Amtrak. Who in their right mind wants to subsidize train service that puts people in danger on a regular basis? There were spouses on the train, not just Congress people.

I told someone on that train how much fun train travel was a couple of years ago. I’m not likely to do that again.

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The train service doesn't put anyone in danger. The idiots driving garbage trucks around crossing gates put lots of people in danger.

I'm not likely to recommend car travel ever again, and I'd quite happily close off all the roads to prevent these untrained yahoos from causing trouble. Or we could start some kind of licensing system where only highly trained people are allowed to drive trucks, because *apparently there isn't one right now*.

 

[Carolina Special]

As I stated elsewhere, car and truck travel will ultimately be resolved by the requirement to use self-driving vehicles, which will obey the traffic laws. Or you’ll be prohibited from using the roads. It may take a couple of decades, but I expect it will happen.

That will fix most “idiot” problems, except for the inevitable glitches, like the crossing gates not working.

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[neroden]

Here's the deal about THIS incident from the reports I've read: Witnesses have stated that this particular grade crossing (the only one in Crozet, WV - the other crossings are not at grade) had a malfunctioning gate. It had the equipment, but it wasn't working right. It was known to fail often in the DOWN position - sometimes for hours. I know that here in Savannah, if there is a malfunctioning gate, a call to CSX immediately warns all locomotive engineers to slow down and a technician is dispatched immediately. Now, of course, in a city, there are more technicians available at the drop of a hat than in Crozet, WV, but at least the engineers would know and within an hour or two, someone would be out there figuring out why.

The problem then lies in the fact that people are Pavlov'd into thinking that EVERY time the gates are down, it's a problem, so they are conditioned to go around. Not smart - just human nature. Don't know where these guys in the garbage truck were headed, but I'm sure taking a 2 1/2 mile detour seemed pretty inconvenient at the time.

Seems to me the dopes in the garbage truck didn't even "stop, look, and listen". This is not a superfast section of track; it's not a "quiet zone"; it has good visibility and audibility...

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The cheapest and most effective solution are quad gates. Or cement medians in the roadways 100 ft prior to the track. But in a lot of places that wouldn't work because roads also parallel the track in places.

The cheapest method is to form a public-private partnership and install cameras at each crossing and fine the people who pass through while the crossing is activated. Be sure to get both the license and the windows so the fine sticks. The primary threat to the train comes from commercial vehicles so I'd put the fine for them at 50x the fine for a basic sedan.

 

[Carolina Special]

And I learned today that the garbage collectors involved in Crozet were from Time Disposal. They do pick up trash in my Charlottesville neighborhood, although I and most residents use another service that has been in the neighborhood longer.

There are GoFundMe pages for a survivor and the family of the deceased at the company web site, for those who feel inclined to contribute.

Mods, if you feel the last paragraph is inappropriate please delete it. Thanks.

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[Devil's Advocate]

On January 31st 2018, Christopher Foley was one of the victims in the Amtrak and garbage truck collision. Unfortunately, Chris lost his life. We here at the company lost a friend and a brother, his one year old son and mother of his child lost a father. We have set up this page to help Mr. Foley's family, theres no amount of money that can replace a human life. Anything that you are able to donate helps the family financially through this horrific time. We are trying to raise enough for the family to cover funeral cost and help with some living costs. All the money will go directly to Mr. Foley's family.

Victim? According to what I read it sounds like this guy was the driver. If Mr. Foley was the victim then who was the perpetrator? Isaac Newton? What a load of rubbish. Literally.

 

[Ashland Train Enthusiast]

As I stated elsewhere, car and truck travel will ultimately be resolved by the requirement to use self-driving vehicles, which will obey the traffic laws. Or youll be prohibited from using the roads. It may take a couple of decades, but I expect it will happen.

That will fix most idiot problems, except for the inevitable glitches, like the crossing gates not working.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

You seem very confident in this. As a fellow rural Virginian, I'll take the over on this happening in the next couple of decades, much less my lifetime. And I'm of the millennial generation, so I've hopefully got plenty of life ahead of me ;-)

~ ATE

 

[west point]

If the truck driver is at fault some one is going bankrupt. If the crossing gates had malfunctioned then someone is going bankrupt. The loco camera and loco occupants will give a lot of information.

Around here all crossings record every operation and duration for last 30 days.

Agree crossing cameras can reduce but not eliminate all scoff laws. But it will take national legislation that prevents any state or local laws banning the cameras .

 

[akbrian]

On January 31st 2018, Christopher Foley was one of the victims in the Amtrak and garbage truck collision. Unfortunately, Chris lost his life. We here at the company lost a friend and a brother, his one year old son and mother of his child lost a father. We have set up this page to help Mr. Foley's family, theres no amount of money that can replace a human life. Anything that you are able to donate helps the family financially through this horrific time. We are trying to raise enough for the family to cover funeral cost and help with some living costs. All the money will go directly to Mr. Foley's family.

Victim? According to what I read it sounds like this guy was the driver. If Mr. Foley was the victim then who was the perpetrator? Isaac Newton? What a load of rubbish. Literally.

The beneficiary of any charitable giving will not be the deceased that made the mistake, but his wife and 1 year old son, who I'm fairly certain are not at fault here.

 

[Lonestar648]

Too many people driving these days are too impatient to wait for a train to pass. Even today, as a freight was cross a road near us, the gates had been down only seconds when people were turning around to find a quicker way. I timed the delay at about 5 minutes. This "I don't have time for this" attitude is the contributing factor for people impatiently trying to beat a train or cross thru a crossing with the gates down. The Teflon attitude that nothing will happen to me just enhances the situation that even more people with go around the gates, even with cameras, warning signs, flashing lights, etc. I see people every time I go through several crossings waiting for traffic to move ahead with their vehicle on the tracks. BIG signs say DO NOT STOP ON THE TRACKS, but almost everyone does. I never stop on the track, so I am the receiving loud horn blasts because I am at the white line before the crossing. I have drilled it into my children and grandchildren NEVER stop on the tracks. More than once we have had our hearts in our throats as the crossing gates start coming down with two lanes of cars on the tracks. Fortunately, there has been enough time for cars to go all which way including into the on coming lanes to escape just before the train passes, always with its horn blaring in the "Quiet Zone". The country doesn't have the money, but the best way is to eliminate the crossings, especially on RR main lines.

Commercial Truck drivers are becoming fewer and fewer, so the companies hiring these drivers have to lower their standards each year in order to put drivers in their trucks. Many companies do not require English to be spoken or read to qualify. There are are many eastern European drivers that have not learn to read and speak English do not understand our road signs. Many states want to increase the CDL licencing standards, but the trucking industry is already hurting so bad they can't without hurting the general public with reduced inventories or major price increases to cover major wage increases.

 

[Rover]

Are the participants of the retreat at the Greenbrier going to take buses home, or, the train, or a combination of the two??

 

[Devil's Advocate]

On January 31st 2018, Christopher Foley was one of the victims in the Amtrak and garbage truck collision. Unfortunately, Chris lost his life. We here at the company lost a friend and a brother, his one year old son and mother of his child lost a father. We have set up this page to help Mr. Foley's family, theres no amount of money that can replace a human life. Anything that you are able to donate helps the family financially through this horrific time. We are trying to raise enough for the family to cover funeral cost and help with some living costs. All the money will go directly to Mr. Foley's family.

Victim? According to what I read it sounds like this guy was the driver. If Mr. Foley was the victim then who was the perpetrator? Isaac Newton? What a load of rubbish. Literally.

The beneficiary of any charitable giving will not be the deceased that made the mistake, but his wife and 1 year old son, who I'm fairly certain are not at fault here.

I have no problem with the wife, the son, or the crowdfunding of innocent survivors. I merely said calling the driver of this particular truck a victim was a load of rubbish. Looks like it was the trucking company that chose these revisionist blame-shifting words. I never thought I'd say this, but at this point I'm honestly ready for self driving trucks. They won't be perfect, and I'm sure they'll still be involved in several major accidents, but in my view the bar for commercial driving competence is already so low it's hard to imagine they could be any worse.

 

[akbrian]

On January 31st 2018, Christopher Foley was one of the victims in the Amtrak and garbage truck collision. Unfortunately, Chris lost his life. We here at the company lost a friend and a brother, his one year old son and mother of his child lost a father. We have set up this page to help Mr. Foley's family, theres no amount of money that can replace a human life. Anything that you are able to donate helps the family financially through this horrific time. We are trying to raise enough for the family to cover funeral cost and help with some living costs. All the money will go directly to Mr. Foley's family.

Victim? According to what I read it sounds like this guy was the driver. If Mr. Foley was the victim then who was the perpetrator? Isaac Newton? What a load of rubbish. Literally.

The beneficiary of any charitable giving will not be the deceased that made the mistake, but his wife and 1 year old son, who I'm fairly certain are not at fault here.

I have no problem with the wife, the son, or the crowdfunding of innocent survivors. I merely said calling the driver of this particular truck a victim was a load of rubbish. Looks like it was the trucking company that chose these revisionist blame-shifting words. I never thought I'd say this, but at this point I'm honestly ready for self driving trucks. They won't be perfect, and I'm sure they'll still be involved in several major accidents, but in my view the bar for commercial driving competence is already so low it's hard to imagine they could be any worse.

I think perhaps you're thinking of his term "victim" in a faultless sense of the word, where as likely the poster wasn't intending that. For example, someone may eat too much unhealthy food, not get enough exercise, and eventually have a heart attack. It's pretty common to still think of that person as a "heart attack victim", without intending to diminish the victim's role in the inevitable event.

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

On January 31st 2018, Christopher Foley was one of the victims in the Amtrak and garbage truck collision. Unfortunately, Chris lost his life. We here at the company lost a friend and a brother, his one year old son and mother of his child lost a father. We have set up this page to help Mr. Foley's family, theres no amount of money that can replace a human life. Anything that you are able to donate helps the family financially through this horrific time. We are trying to raise enough for the family to cover funeral cost and help with some living costs. All the money will go directly to Mr. Foley's family.

Victim? According to what I read it sounds like this guy was the driver. If Mr. Foley was the victim then who was the perpetrator? Isaac Newton? What a load of rubbish. Literally.

The beneficiary of any charitable giving will not be the deceased that made the mistake, but his wife and 1 year old son, who I'm fairly certain are not at fault here.

I have no problem with the wife, the son, or the crowdfunding of innocent survivors. I merely said calling the driver of this particular truck a victim was a load of rubbish. Looks like it was the trucking company that chose these revisionist blame-shifting words. I never thought I'd say this, but at this point I'm honestly ready for self driving trucks. They won't be perfect, and I'm sure they'll still be involved in several major accidents, but in my view the bar for commercial driving competence is already so low it's hard to imagine they could be any worse.

I think perhaps you're thinking of his term "victim" in a faultless sense of the word, where as likely the poster wasn't intending that. For example, someone may eat too much unhealthy food, not get enough exercise, and eventually have a heart attack. It's pretty common to still think of that person as a "heart attack victim", without intending to diminish the victim's role in the inevitable event.

For one, this situation is a much more direct result, as eating unhealthy is a long-term thing and also does not necessarily lead to an "inevitable" heart attack. While eating unhealthy does increase the risk of a heart attack, the correlation is much less than between those who go around crossing gates and those who get hit by trains. It should also be considered that some people have eating addictions so they struggle greatly to eat healthily. However, the main reason that the analogy is misleading is that the truck driver did something illegal that endangered many other people, while eating unhealthy food is completely legal and endangers only yourself.

 

[Lonestar648]

For those interested in the driver-less cars, they are testing the concept in Kirkland, WA, Austin, TX, and Pittsburgh, PA. They have been successful in a limited area, but the big question is how many sensors have to be all over the car.and the potential to out price the average user. In the state of Washington the DOT has held off legislators who want to pass legislation to super regulate the concept, thus slow the development to a crawl. Unless the US DOT established the rules and reg for all states, it may not be possible to drive the driver-less car from state to state due to that states regulations. So, the developers may get the concept working, but state legislators may inadvertently shut the whole driver less car down. There is some negativity towards the commercial trucking being driver-less due to the number of split second discussions a CDL driver has to know, observe, and decide. It may happen, but appears to be a much longer project, and most likely very highly regulated due to the weight and size of the vehicle (up to a 53 foot trailer and 80,000 pounds per single trailer rig, more for two 48 foot trailers or three pubs.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Commercial Truck drivers are becoming fewer and fewer, so the companies hiring these drivers have to lower their standards each year in order to put drivers in their trucks. Many companies do not require English to be spoken or read to qualify. There are are many eastern European drivers that have not learn to read and speak English do not understand our road signs. Many states want to increase the CDL licencing standards, but the trucking industry is already hurting so bad they can't without hurting the general public with reduced inventories or major price increases to cover major wage increases.

English is required.Were not hurting yet, but plenty of work available.

Reduced inventories is why were busy.

At some point your going to see a shift in the truck business, were not there yet. Today I have 33,000lbs of Slim Jims onboard. I max at 44,500. Space available in the trailer. This is a stock load going to cold storage then deliver to a store near you. No need to leave the shipper without max the cube, and or max the weight. This is common.

Still common is the No warehouse Just-In-Time. Deliver 8 pallets of frozen bread 1200 miles. Was talking to the unloading service. He was surprised I had so much freight. This bread supplier delivers ever day, but only 4-5 pallets at a time. I can fit 28 pallets. It seem the buyers are given a bonus if they keep inventory low. Fast turn around of stock is the goal. Nobody keeping a eye on the transportation cost.

Anyways back to the accident. Three in cab, bad angle of approach, possible history of a problematic Gates.

Distraction, limited view, recent experience of Gates failure. The perfect trifecta.

.

 

[akbrian]

Update from;

https://www.wsls.com/news/virginia/community-raising-funds-for-family-of-amtrak-crash-victim

"...Foley, who was one of the two passengers of the trash truck, died from injuries suffered in the crash, police said. The other passenger was airlifted to the University of Virginia Medical Center with critical injuries, while the driver of the truck was taken by ground in serious condition..."

 

[Devil's Advocate]

If Foley was not the driver and played no role in the truck being the tracks then I stand corrected and referring to him as a victim is both morally and grammatically correct.

 

[Thirdrail7]

The NTSB is performing a reenactment of this incident. I suspect we'll be able to see a preliminary report and a final report.

 

[Lonestar648]

NTSB suspects malfunctioning signals and crossing gate based on witness interviews.

 

[A Voice]

As I stated elsewhere, car and truck travel will ultimately be resolved by the requirement to use self-driving vehicles, which will obey the traffic laws. Or you’ll be prohibited from using the roads. It may take a couple of decades, but I expect it will happen.

That will fix most “idiot” problems, except for the inevitable glitches, like the crossing gates not working.

Even setting aside classic and restored cars (and old "farm" pickups so rusted out you could reach through the bodywork), there are still a fair number of 1990's model vehicles on the road today. Yet, in just a couple decades you suggest that people will be required to own self-driving vehicles which as of 2018 largely aren't even on the market yet? Seriously?

 

[Larry H.]

A little of the topic but I can't help but wonder when they run a special like this for congress do they have the same food service, or do they get special treatment so as not to give them the real effects of their cutting of the diners?

 

[railiner]

A little of the topic but I can't help but wonder when they run a special like this for congress do they have the same food service, or do they get special treatment so as not to give them the real effects of their cutting of the diners?

On a charter, the customer chooses what food service they are willing to pay for....