Amtrak - Train Service From L.A. To Las Vegas, NV

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jccollins

Conductor
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I just received this message from Key Holidays, a Northern California travel agency that specializes in Amtrak trips and charters Amtrak trains for trips.

"Regretfully the decision has been made to not operate the Las Vegas train next year.  At this time no other information as to what Amtrak will do in regards to a daily train to Vegas either."  Key  Holidays

This company ran two round trip trains from Los Angeles, CA to Las Vegas, NV last year and said that they "planned on running several trains to Las Vegas in 2003." Evidently this is no longer the case. :( You can check out the Key Holidays website at http://www.keyholidays.com.
 
It definitely looks like daily Amtrak train service from LA to Vegas won't happen for quite some time.

The present Amtrak Thruway bus service -- midweek anyway -- is tolerable for now. It is also much faster and less expensive than the chartered train service.
 
I agree, this service to Vegas isn't going to happen soon. It's really is a shame as lots of us here in So. Calif. really need it. Amtrak is letting a real money generating opportunity go untapped.

Wb
 
Allen Dee said:
The present Amtrak Thruway bus service -- midweek anyway -- is tolerable for now.
Doesn't Amtrak offer daily thruway service from L.A. - Las Vegas? What do you mean by "midweek anyway" is tolerable for now? Is the weekend service actually booked up every weekend so that it is not tolerable, or is there less service, or... ;)
 
I was referring to the traffic on the roads. Yes, Amtrak does offer daily thruway bus service, but the traffic delays on the weekends are horrendous. There are highway construction projects for at least a third of the distance between LA and Vegas.

The last time I checked, there were 4 daily round-trips, a mere pittance for such a heavily traveled corridor. They could offer more service, but the weekend trips (when the majority of people travel this route) suffer such horrible delays, that they would chase passengers away.
 
Bus, tolerable?

LMGDMFAO!!!

Please send me a kilo or two of whatever you're smokin'!
 
Thanks for clearing that up, Allen. I should have figured that one out myself. If the delays are that bad it seems like it would almost be quicker for the motorcoaches to take a different route on the weekends, like through Santa Clarita to Mojave, etc. I guess this might even take longer, though. I don't really know the geography of the area very well. We need the train service - even if it took 7 hours like it used to (Recently chartered trips, old Desert Wind) it would still be better than fighting the hordes of motor cars.
 
How is Nevada's State budget looking? I believe Allen Dee stated in the past that the LA/LV corridor would be operated by Amtrak California but paid for by the State of Nevada (or was that the I-15 improvment project that would be funded by Nevada). If Nevada does not have too much of a deficit maybe we could get them to kick in a good deal of funding as this route would directly benefit Nevada's coffiers.
 
the traffic problem is between Barstow and Vegas - there is no alternate route. And Key Holidays actually had 4 trips scheduled in 2002, and cancelled all but one for lack of ridership, and that one went because pacific railway society had heavily marketed it to their members and had a fairly decent load. Vegas is a quick, easy, and cheap flight from all over the LA basin. Amtrak's market is quite limited. Yes, there are lots of cars, but most of those will drive regardless. What they might get is some of the many charter bus customers that ply the freeway.
 
What is the charter bus market from LA to Vegas like is it as heavily saturated as the NY to Atlantic City route?
 
pismobum said:
the traffic problem is between Barstow and Vegas - there is no alternate route. And Key Holidays actually had 4 trips scheduled in 2002, and cancelled all but one for lack of ridership, and that one went because pacific railway society had heavily marketed it to their members and had a fairly decent load. Vegas is a quick, easy, and cheap flight from all over the LA basin. Amtrak's market is quite limited. Yes, there are lots of cars, but most of those will drive regardless. What they might get is some of the many charter bus customers that ply the freeway.
I didn't know that Key Holidays had FOUR trips scheduled between L.A. and Vegas in 2002. I read about the "Las Vegas Fun Train" and "Las Vegas Special" on the Key Holidays website, but didn't hear about the other two trips planned. That is too bad that they didn't have the ridership needed to run the trains. I KNOW for a fact that the market is there - the times/dates Key Holidays scheduled just weren't convenient for a lot of people. I couldn't take a week off from school to go to Vegas.. If the one of the trains was scheduled during my Spring Break from school (the standard scheduled break across the country) I would have definitely been on it. It would have also been nice if they scheduled the train to depart late enough so that Northern Californians (such as myself) could have taken the trip in a day by starting out on the SB San Joaquin 712 to L.A. and connected to the Vegas train at L.A. While it would be a bit longer than the route from Bakersfield to Vegas, I would have done the two hour bus ride from Bakersfield to L.A. instead of the six hour ride from Bakersfield to Vegas. And only two nights in Vegas? Most people taking the train would probably want to spend AT LEAST three days there. Maybe a little better scheduling coordination in the future (if there is one) would gain Key Holidays the ridership needed to operate the train at capacity. A same day northern California train connection would have definitely increased the marketing area by multifolds.

I strongly disagree that Amtrak's market is quite limited for this route. If I lived in L.A. and direct train service connected it to Vegas at a reasonable price, I would be much more inclined to jump on it for the short ride instead of motoring that far in the smog and traffic or fighting the chaos at the airport. I actually think that the charter bus passengers are least likely to be Amtrak's future customers - the people on these buses are probably on them because it is the cheapest way to go. Amtrak usually can't compete with the dirt cheap bus fares, but they are defintely a median that could easily lure air and motor travelers away from the airports and their polluting cars.
 
Regrettably, unless you are a railfan, Amtrak would NOT be a viable choice for vegas for most people. They plan to run via Metrolink thru the San Gabriel valley, so you either have to get to DOWNTOWN LA or to San Bernardino. For 95% of the southern calif region, Burbank, LAX, OC, or Ontario are much more convenient. Add in a flight time of less than an hour which gets you to Vegas quickly "raring to go" vs 6+ hours on the train, and you are definitely aiming at a limited market. Due to the size of the LA-Vegas travel market, there is certainly "room" for Amtrak, but they will never be anything but a 'bit player'.
 
pismobum said:
Regrettably, unless you are a railfan, Amtrak would NOT be a viable choice for vegas for most people. They plan to run via Metrolink thru the San Gabriel valley, so you either have to get to DOWNTOWN LA or to San Bernardino. For 95% of the southern calif region, Burbank, LAX, OC, or Ontario are much more convenient. Add in a flight time of less than an hour which gets you to Vegas quickly "raring to go" vs 6+ hours on the train, and you are definitely aiming at a limited market. Due to the size of the LA-Vegas travel market, there is certainly "room" for Amtrak, but they will never be anything but a 'bit player'.
pismobum,

Add in time to get to the airport, a few hours for security checkpoints, time for flight delays, the one hour travel time, and then the time to get from the Vegas airport to downtown and then I would be "raring mad!" While I agree that Los Angeles Union Station is not the most convenient departure point for a large portion of southern California, there ARE trains stations located throughout the L.A. suburbs and San Fernando Valley with trains that connect to L.A. Union Station. It takes time to get to the airport - I would find it much easier to hop on a commuter train to get to the main station of departure.

As far as the market goes, it is definitely there. LOTS of people take the six hour trip from the S.F. Bay Area / Sacramento to Reno, NV to gamble, and this trip takes at least 1.5 to 2 times as long as if you were to drive the distance from the Bay Area to Reno. Granted that some take the trip just for the beautiful scenery over the Sierras, many still take it for the convenience of being able to board close to home, to be able to leave the motoring behind, or to avoid the airports.

Obviously the L.A. to Las Vegas route would not have the scenery, but a 5 1/2 hour trip would be very comparable to the time it takes to motor the distance. It would be much quicker than motoring on I-15 on the weekends or dealing with the airport traffic and delays.

B)
 
Allen Dee said:
The last time I checked, there were 4 daily round-trips, a mere pittance for such a heavily traveled corridor. They could offer more service, but the weekend trips (when the majority of people travel this route) suffer such horrible delays, that they would chase passengers away.
There are 5 or 6 daily Thruway round trips between Los Angeles Union Station and Las Vegas. Obviously these are designed to meet with various arrivals and departures of the Pacific Surfliners and the three long distance trains that serve LAX. There are also a few round trips between Bakersfield and Las Vegas, connecting with the San Joaquins at BFD.

The proposed Amtrak service will be just one round trip per day. I agree that this should be a corridor-type service, at least three round trips. You're serving a casino town, a city that never sleeps. The hours of train service should know no bounds. Given how it's been so hard to get even that one daily round trip started, I would venture to say that many of the above Thruway bus runs will continue even when the train is online. They might cancel some that are close to the train's time, but more than a few hours away I am sure the Thruways will continue until they can physically and operationally run more than one train.
 
If they only plan one daily train, it might as well be a revived Desert Wind (LAX-LV-CHI). I agree a corridor would be more effective, but a Desert Wind to Compliment the service would be nice.
 
Viewliner said:
If they only plan one daily train, it might as well be a revived Desert Wind (LAX-LV-CHI). I agree a corridor would be more effective, but a Desert Wind to Compliment the service would be nice.
Sure we'd all love to see the Desert Wind (and the Pioneer) returned to the Amtrak map, but that just is not going to happen anytime soon.

It was a crime to cut off a destination like Las Vegas when the DW was pulled several years ago. But it was known that once the train went away it would be hard to reinstate it. The idea of at least one train running between Los Angeles and Las Vegas would be a start -- at least Las Vegas would get service back in one direction.

I'm surprised that they are not running some type of Thruway bus to/from Las Vegas to connect at Salt Lake City with the California Zephyr. The former Pioneer route is almost entirely covered now north and west of Salt Lake City by replacement Greyhound service that offers a Thruway arrangement with Amtrak. Certainly they could do the same for the DW route.
 
I am not sure how you figure there are five or six Amtrak thruway departures from L.A. to Las Vegas every day. The fast fare finder shows thruway departures from L.A. daily at 9:45am, 3:15pm, and 8:10pm. Motorcoaches depart from Bakersfield to Las Vegas upon the arrival of trains 712 and 714, so from BFD to LVS there are two trips a day, but only one of these runs from LVS back to BFD.

I agree that corridor service would be great, but Amtrak claims they have dropped all plans to start any service right now or in the near future. In addition, Amtrak California says they have no plans to initiate the service.

If service ever is to begin, I propose 6am and 6pm departures from Los Angeles and 9am and 9pm departures returning from Las Vegas.
 
jccollins said:
I am not sure how you figure there are five or six Amtrak thruway departures from L.A. to Las Vegas every day.  The fast fare finder shows thruway departures from L.A. daily at 9:45am, 3:15pm, and 8:10pm.  Motorcoaches depart from Bakersfield to Las Vegas upon the arrival of trains 712 and 714, so from BFD to LVS there are two trips a day, but only one of these runs from LVS back to BFD.
You're right, there are only three Greyhound runs from Los Angeles to Las Vegas that are under Amtrak's Thruway program. A check of Amtrak's reservations website confirmed departures of run 8534 at 9:45 AM, run 8536 at 3:15 PM, and run 8538 at 8:10 PM.

But in the other direction, arbitrarily choosing a travel date of Thursday 12/5/02, I came up with five Thruway runs from Las Vegas to Los Angeles:

8531 departs 2:35 AM

8533 departs 10:25 AM

8535 departs 12:20 PM

8543 departs 6:05 PM

8537 departs 10:50 PM

Either way, that is true corridor service, and I agree the train would be highly successful giving passengers a choice of daily departures.

As for Bakersfield, there are two trips Las Vegas to Bakersfield. Run 4217 leaves LVS at 9:15 AM, while run 4203 leaves LVS 11:10 AM. Kind of bunched-up in the morning, if you ask me. From Bakersfield to Las Vegas there are three: Run 4202 departs BFD at 12:05 PM, 4212 leaves at 1:55 PM, and run 8816 leaves at 7:45 PM.
 
Actually, there are alternate road routes between Barstow and Las Vegas... They are by miles longer, but shorter in time for those busy Sunday PM returns...

Las Vegas I-15 to Blue Diamond Road, over the pass to Pahrump, south to Baker, then south through Kelso (Kelbaker Road) to I-40. If you want to bypass Barstow altogether, you can continue on to the I-10. There is also a shortcut that bypasses Pahrump at Tecopa, but its a *really* lonely road.

Of course you could also head toward Boulder and go south past Searchlight to Needles - which is the current route of Commuter Carriers service handling Amtrak's SW Chief to Vegas at Needles.

But back to Vegas service... its too bad to hear that wont be happening soon. Its really needed - but the schedule would be very awkward to coordinate with any other train. Ideally you would want to arrive in Vegas in the evening, and depart Vegas late morning. I think that was a big problem with the prior Desert Wind service - it was an unworkable schedule. I'll also add the Coast Starlight should really be the Coast Starlight - wasting a day both ways going up the coast is ugly for SF-LA travellers.

Greyhound Bus Service ("Leave the driving to us... We'll leave the viruses for you...) is no substitute - I took the ride from Vegas to SLC to meet up with the Zephyr this past Holiday... and all I could think about was how I could have rented a one way car for about the same.
 
It would be nice if the Coast Starlight had a "12 hour flip" schedule from San Francisco to Los Angeles with sleeping cars at reasonable prices. Now THAT would be the way to travel! As for Las Vegas, it would be nice if the service ran a train in each direction every eight hours (say departing each end at 8:00am, 4:00pm, and midnight) to meet everyone's schedule.
 
I suppose I should announce now that were on the subject of Vegas, that I would mention, that I will be going there this upcoming March 2003 (yay!). Commuter carriers is a van service I thought though, is it not? They should definately reinstate the Desert Wind, but I know that they won't. Reality Bites!

BTW, should I get a deluxe bedroom or family bedroom? Which is a better choice if YOU GUYS had to choose?? :lol: :p
 
-Late Shore- said:
BTW, should I get a deluxe bedroom or family bedroom? Which is a better choice if YOU GUYS had to choose?? :lol: :p
I would agree with Tubaallen, overall the deluxe is a better choice. However it does depend on how many people are traveling with you. If you are going solo, then save the family room for a family as there is only one per car.

The deluxe room is on the upper level, and therefore tends to be quieter. You also don't have to climb up and down the stairs to get to the rest of the train. Plus the deluxe includes a sink & bathroom with shower, the family room does not.
 
Yeah, I didn't think to mention that it's upstairs....therefore giving you a better view. However, the family room is the width of the car, so you have your own window on both sides. This isn't a big deal in the deluxe though, because you can just look past the aisle.
 
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