Amtrak Threatens Closing Beech Grove?
- Thread starter The Davy Crockett
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Ryan
Court Jester
There's a heck of a lot of space there and infrastructure that would cost money to relocate.
When this was discussed a while back, the general consensus was that they wouldn't do this.
But, it makes a nice negotiating position.
When this was discussed a while back, the general consensus was that they wouldn't do this.
But, it makes a nice negotiating position.
The Davy Crockett
Engineer
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My take is that this is just a negotiating threat. Would cost Amtrak a lot of money they don't have to spare and a loss of experienced employees to locate to a new facility. Probably trying to scare the local politicians more than they are trying to pressure IN DOT directly.
In a more reasonable set of circumstances, Indiana DOT and political leaders would look at Michigan, Illinois, Virginia, Vermont and see that those states are investing transportation funds into both subsidies and capital projects for passenger rail with the expectation of economic returns. Start with one daily Hoosier State and a modest annual capital improvement fund of $5 or $10 million a year for track and station improvements. But that probably won't happen.
PS. Meant to mention the picture: ok, that's bad for a stock photo pic that has no relation to the article.
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Ryan
Court Jester
On the other hand, assuming this is something that Amtrak would seriously consider doing. What better way to reward a state that's been playing nicely with them by relocating and adding jobs and money into their economy?
Michigan in particular seems to be a good candidate for this. Make the Wolverine the hospital trains and locate somewhere near Detroit. Plenty of skilled workers hungry for a job around there, you get multiple trains daily to shuttle equipment, and like BG, feed the equipment through Chicago, since it sees pretty much every kind of car Amtrak operates.
Edit: If not Detroit, somewhere along the Amtrak owned tracks would work too. That way they can move equipment from the new shops to a convenient station to tack it on whenever they please without having to worry about a host railroad.
Michigan in particular seems to be a good candidate for this. Make the Wolverine the hospital trains and locate somewhere near Detroit. Plenty of skilled workers hungry for a job around there, you get multiple trains daily to shuttle equipment, and like BG, feed the equipment through Chicago, since it sees pretty much every kind of car Amtrak operates.
Edit: If not Detroit, somewhere along the Amtrak owned tracks would work too. That way they can move equipment from the new shops to a convenient station to tack it on whenever they please without having to worry about a host railroad.
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benjibear
Conductor
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It may be a threat and I am sure somebody in Amtrak will crunch the numbers. It may not happen overnight but may happen. Similar things have happened with labor negotiations where the employer says if the union won't take concessions, they will relocate and the union says they are bluffing. At some point the cards will be shown to see who has the winning hand.
It wouldn't be an overnight thing, but I could see it happening long-term...if Beech Grove ever has a need for major repairs/renovation, they could just decide that it's too expensive to repair and do the work in other yards or build a new one then. Until then, though, I hope they wouldn't do it, if for no other reason than because it'd be cutting your hand to spite your face (or however the saying goes.)
MattW
Conductor
I wonder if long-term it wouldn't actually be cheaper for Amtrak to relocate since they'd either have to wait for the Cardinal, or run special trains and pay the host RRs for them for equipment moves if the Hoosier State ceases to run. I don't know what the costs would even be either way though, but surely it's more expensive to make a long special move to Chicago or D.C. than a quick move to the station then tacking the cars onto an existing train.
N
Nathanael
Guest
Contra what others have said, it would make a lot of sense for Amtrak to relocate the shops to a better location. The Beech Grove facility is in many ways an obsolete facility. It's been adapted to meet Amtrak's needs, which is great. However, a new facility could be *designed* for Amtrak's *current* needs -- Amtrak could relocate what it needs and ignore what it doesn't.
Perhaps the most likely location would be Chicago. There's lots of disused industrial land in the Chicagoland area with *masssively* excellent rail connections. Mostly on the South Side. And I'll bet, given their history, that Chicago and/or the state of Illinois would be more than happy to help subsidize the move -- particularly given the politics of jobs on the South Side of Chicago.
As Ryan mentioned, Michigan would be another obvious candidate, with industrial land in similar condition to the South Side of Chicago (but even cheaper) and a supportive state government.
Perhaps the most likely location would be Chicago. There's lots of disused industrial land in the Chicagoland area with *masssively* excellent rail connections. Mostly on the South Side. And I'll bet, given their history, that Chicago and/or the state of Illinois would be more than happy to help subsidize the move -- particularly given the politics of jobs on the South Side of Chicago.
As Ryan mentioned, Michigan would be another obvious candidate, with industrial land in similar condition to the South Side of Chicago (but even cheaper) and a supportive state government.
Devil's Advocate
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Aren't there repair facilities and related infrastructure that were scaled back or abandoned all over the country during the freight rail consolidation years? Seems like with a little financial help and a long term lease Amtrak could move to other locations without having to invest in brand new infrastructure from the ground up. Use the repair tracks already in place, bring whatever isn't permanently fixed to Beech Grove, and transfer as many employees as you can. Scoping out potential sites and requesting favorable development and funding offers would simply be good business. What does Amtrak owe Indiana anyway? If Amtrak decides to move to a pro-rail state I'll support it.
MikefromCrete
Engineer
Chicago would be the logical spot for a central repair facility. There's lot of railroad infrastructure and plenty of old industrial sites that could be used. The only reason that Beech Grove exists is because it was available at a good price. It never made sense for Amtrak's central repair site to be located so far off of Amtrak's main business areas. Indianapolis has never been a big Amtrak service area. If Indiana has no interest in Amtrak service, Illinois has been a big supporter and should be the first choice. Michigan also deserves consideration, but it is also off the "main line."
NE933
Conductor
Chicago and it's abandoned industrial sites are good, but they are all near water from the Great Lakes.
NJT's Meadowlands is near water, when Sandy hit.
NJT's Meadowlands is near water, when Sandy hit.
Alexandria Nick
Lead Service Attendant
Last I checked, there aren't hurricanes on the Great Lakes and a seiche is only a problem if you're actually on shore.
I thought about mentioning hurricanes. Wasn't sure if the concern was about storms (hurricanes or otherwise), or about rising sea levels.
cirdan
Engineer
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I guess that even with the Hoosier State, it still takes notable lead times to get equipment into and out of Beech Grove. Maybe equipment can get delivered to Chicago on day 1, and then wait a day for the next Hoosier State. The same happens on the reverse leg. That's two full unproductive days just to get the equipment to the right location. A Chicagoland facility would be much more productive in that respect. Maybe the facility could also seek to competitively aquire maintenance work for Metra or other agencies.
To get to Bear, DE, they need to travel on the NEC. Superliners would not be able to get to/from WAS or NYP because if the tunnels. And, I believe someone has said that PHL is not compatible with the Superliners either.
I know of some facilities that Amtrak could use in WI, though I realize this is highly unlikely, given our Tea Party influence in State politics. It could make Amtrak seem a bit more 'essential,' in that the NRPC would then be considered a larger employer.
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
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If one had to get Superliners to Bear on a regular basis, I am sure it would be done via Harrisburg and Port Road to Perryville and then up the NEC to Newark and on to Bear.
N
Nathanael
Guest
Now I find myself doing Google Maps scouting of possible Chicago locations for a maintenance facility. 
There's several, though I think all of them would require at least a little eminent domain to connect them conveniently to Amtrak. The best is actually the block between Roosevelt Road, Metra Rock Island line, Ping Tom Park, and the South Branch of the Chicago River, but it's undoubtedly too expensive. There's several other sites along the Metra Rock Island line (but how would Amtrak get there?) and also a number of possible sites along the former Junction Railway in the former Stock Yards area, as well as a number of abandoned ex-CTA sites. There are also a bunch of possible sites near the Calumet River, but they're probably massively contaminated, and prone to flood risk.
Anyway, that was just looking at Chicago proper. Amtrak should call Mayor Emmanuel and start chatting with him about it. See how Indianapolis reacts when there's an actual competitor.
There's several, though I think all of them would require at least a little eminent domain to connect them conveniently to Amtrak. The best is actually the block between Roosevelt Road, Metra Rock Island line, Ping Tom Park, and the South Branch of the Chicago River, but it's undoubtedly too expensive. There's several other sites along the Metra Rock Island line (but how would Amtrak get there?) and also a number of possible sites along the former Junction Railway in the former Stock Yards area, as well as a number of abandoned ex-CTA sites. There are also a bunch of possible sites near the Calumet River, but they're probably massively contaminated, and prone to flood risk.Anyway, that was just looking at Chicago proper. Amtrak should call Mayor Emmanuel and start chatting with him about it. See how Indianapolis reacts when there's an actual competitor.
Actually - Amtrak isn't in Indianapolis. It is in the town of Beech Grove, which is an island with in the larger city/county complex.
Many years ago when the city and county merged some operations, six small cities in Marion County decided to maintain their own governments, schools, police, etc. and they remain independent from Indianapolis.
Not to say that shutting down the facility wouldn't have an effect on Indianapolis, it would, as probably many of the employees actually live in the big city.
Having to ferry equipment to and from Beach Grove is certainly an expense that a facility closer to a hub would negate. Amtraks option for ONE facility to replace BG would likely be best in Chicagoland. Other possibilities would be Michigan (as noted by other posters), Kansas City or St Louis (rewarding Missouri), or maybe a Minneapolis/St Paul (if a long term package deal for a second/third train could be reached).
Another strategy for Amtrak would be to have several smaller facilities capable of heavy repairs. This would allow location near natural hubs (CHI, LAX, Oakland, Seattle, KC, StL, Dallas, New Orleans, etc) cutting down on ferry costs and spreading the economic benefits (to communities) around.
The tactic of a threat to shut down BG should be a WAKE UP call to Indiana!
Another strategy for Amtrak would be to have several smaller facilities capable of heavy repairs. This would allow location near natural hubs (CHI, LAX, Oakland, Seattle, KC, StL, Dallas, New Orleans, etc) cutting down on ferry costs and spreading the economic benefits (to communities) around.
The tactic of a threat to shut down BG should be a WAKE UP call to Indiana!
The Indiana Rail Forum has quite a bit about this and is calling for members to contact Indiana government to take action.
Don't know if it will do any good, or not.
I have been to Beech Grove a number of times over the years. They use to let me take pictures from outside the fence, but they have stopped that, now, for some reason.
Here are a few of my favorites.
A PPC car in for repairs and a new paint job.
MikefromCrete
Engineer
We don't get many hurricanes in Chicago.
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